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Parsi, the Lost Tribe of Persia: Sid Harth
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Parsis have civilization; other Indians don’t
By Aakar Patel / Mint
Published: 05.12.2009 / 04:32 AM
Category: Heritage, India, Opinion
Culture is our attitude to beauty and ugliness, to power, to religion,
and to family. It shows in our music, in what makes us laugh.
Civilization is our attitude to mankind
Indians have culture but not civilization. Culture is how we entertain
ourselves; civilization is how we entertain others. Culture is our
attitude to beauty and ugliness, to power, to religion, and to family.
It shows in our music, in what makes us laugh. Civilization is our
attitude to mankind. It’s defined as social development of an advanced
stage, but civilization never actually arrives; it is only reached
for. It assumes there is high purpose to life, to wealth, to culture.
It believes that man will exhibit the signs of his evolution. He will
improve upon man. For this he must build—but what?
The Birlas built six temples (India always being in urgent need of
more religion).
They built temples in Jaipur, Hyderabad, Delhi, Mumbai, Patna and
Kolkata. Most of these are to Lakshminarayan, and these are only the
big ones. No Indian family has built more, or bigger, temples than the
Birlas, and that is their contribution to our culture.
Mukesh Ambani is building on Altamount Road a structure called
Antilla, the most expensive home in history. Its architects Hirsch
Bedner say their estimate for it is around $2 billion. That is Rs9,000
crore, and four people will live in this house. That is Ambani’s
contribution to our culture.
The Birlas built schools for the rich, and the Ambanis made a school
for millionaires. BITS-Pilani’s fee is Rs1 lakh per year, Birla
Vidyamandir’s fee is Rs1 lakh per year and Dhirubhai Ambani
International School’s fee just for classes XI and XII is Rs7.57 lakh.
At the Aditya Birla Memorial Hospital (“Compassionate Quality
Healthcare”), a check-up for headaches costs Rs2,850.
At the Kokilaben Dhirubhai Ambani Hospital (“Every Life Matters”), the
wellness check-up costs Rs5,000.
At the Tata Memorial Hospital, which treats cancer, healthcare is
free.
Rajashree Birla says Indians “don’t have the mindset to give away
large amounts of money to charity”. The act of leaving “just a little
bit for their children”, she says, “happens only in the US”.
“It calls for very large-heartedness,” she says, “I don’t see this
happening in the Indian context in the near future at least.”
She’s right about our mindset and culture, but wrong in assuming that
the problem is about large-heartedness: It is actually about a lack of
civilization.
She’s wrong also about this not happening in future: It already has
happened in India.
Of Tata Sons’ 398,563 shares, 65.8% is held by charitable trusts
(Ratan Tata owns 0.84%). How much money are we talking about? Tata
Sons’ net profit last year was Rs3,780 crore. Tata Sons owns 74% of
Tata Consultancy Services and 84% of Tata Motors. If wealthy Indians
want to give back to society, they need only buy Jaguar and Land
Rover, and not Mercedes and BMW. Tata Sons owns 31% of Tata Steel, 20%
of Tata Teleservices and 22% of Tata Tea.
Indians should buy their books from Landmark, their phones from Tata
Indicom, their television sets and washing machines from Croma; and
they should stay at the Taj. They should drink Tetley tea and
Himalayan mineral water. They should watch TV on TataSky and get
themselves insured with Tata AIG. Why?
Last year, Sir Dorabji Tata Trust gave away Rs201 crore. Sir Ratan
Tata Trust gave away Rs153 crore. This is not CSR (corporate social
responsibility) or other corporate varnish: It’s pure philanthropy.
Witness its quality: Tata Institute of Fundamental Research, Tata
Institute of Social Sciences, Tata Energy Research Institute (Teri),
Indian Institute of Science, National Centre for the Performing Arts.
That is civilization.
In Europe, the ownership and efficient management of such a giant
corporate by charitable trusts would be stunning.
But we use the phrase “Tata-Birla-Ambani” easily, as if the words were
interchangeable. One of them has nothing in common with the other two.
JRD sent 81% of Tata Sons’ income to charity. We thanked him by
nationalizing his beloved Air India, firing him as chairman and
running it into the ground.
The Tatas set up Teri, India’s first green industry initiative, in
1974. Under R.K. Pachauri, in 2003, the name Tata was neatly excised
from Teri and replaced with the word “The”. Now, Teri’s magazine and
website are testament to the greatness of Pachauri, who will show up
to collect any award you give him, including GQ Man of the Year. But
that is our culture.
Parsis have civilization, but not culture. They cannot speak old
Persian and their Avesta they cannot read. For language, they lean on
Gujarati, for music they lean on Brahms. Their beautiful women wear
saris.
Their last names are Gujarati: Broacha (of Bharuch), Anklesaria (of
Ankleshwar), Surti (of Surat), Mehta (accountant) and Gandhi (grocer).
Their first names are great names in history, names that made Athens
and Sparta and Corinth tremble—Ksayarsa, Kurush Buzurg and Daarivush.
Herodotus and Thucydides called them Xerxes, Cyrus the Great and
Darius. Parsis cannot even speak their own first names.
From 500 BC, Parsis fought Europe. They spilt and drew blood in
history’s most famous battles: Marathon, Thermopylae, Salamis and
Plataea. Hollywood’s cardboard Leonidas looks heroic in 300 (Xerxes is
shown as demented), but actually the Parsi Immortals butchered the
Spartans at Thermopylae and the terrified Athenians abandoned their
city. Alexander the Great conquered the Parsis in 334 BC and the Arabs
under Umar drove them from their lands in 644. But the real Parsi
surrender came in Bombay when they submitted to the individualism of
Enlightened Europe.
We hate sweeping statements about Indians, and generalizations about
India. The problem is that everywhere in India the same evidence keeps
slapping us in the face. We’ve become good at looking away. We think
we are Aryans, descended from the Caucasus. Parsis also believe that.
Zarathushtra’s god was Ahura and his demons were Daiva. But the Rig
Ved says Deva must be our god and our demons Asura.
Aakar Patel is a director with Hill Road Media.
Send your feedback to ***@livemint.com
Copyright © 2007 HT Media All Rights Reserved
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46 Responses to “Parsis have civilization; other Indians don’t”
Owais Pahlav Khorassaini 5 December 2009 at 6:18 pm #
Dear Sir,
I have a question about the the great iranians and indians. The
following statement is true or not, is every fair indians claim we are
pure iranian ?
I quoted the referance from book the THE ENCYCLOPAEDIA MYTHS & LEGENDS
OF ALL NATIONS; the writers are H.S. Robinson and K. Wilson.
” The group of Aryans who swept into the land of India, long ages ago,
were cousins of the Iranians, whose ancient religion has been briefly
described in the preceding chapter. One finds in the earliest indian
literature deities who go back to the time when the ancestors of
persian and indians were still one.”
The second question is who are the real ancestors of Urdu speaking
peoples?
I am wating your reply
Thank You
Best Regards
Owais A. Pahlavi.
Ronnie Patel 5 December 2009 at 11:31 pm #
I would like to kindly remind the Parsees that before the advent of
the Aryans from the south pole, it was in India that we had the best
civilization in the form of Harrapa & Mohanjo Daro which were the two
best cities in the world at that time, so please do not say that only
we Parsees have the best civilization. Yes after the Aryans settled
down in Iran That we had the best civilization, but even India had the
best culture & civilization at that time.
Please do not mixed up the History with your own story.
History is the witness that only india had the best civilization in
the world & it is the Hindus that gave the world the best
civilizations & the best culture to the world.
Zubin Wadia 6 December 2009 at 4:53 am #
I am struggling to understand the intent of this article. It’s got a
very polarizing stance and I can’t for the life of me understand what
purpose it serves.
“But the real Parsi surrender came in Bombay when they submitted to
the individualism of Enlightened Europe.”
So… we brought knowledge of ship building, steam power and electricity
to Mumbai and that’s surrender? We built a hotel open to all and not
just white people – that’s surrender?
According to the sheer idiocy of your rationale, I am surrendering to
‘Western Enlightenment’ by replying to ***@livemint.com
As for race, lineage and genealogy – do a DNA test and figure it out!
Everybody is different.
keki unwalla 7 December 2009 at 12:40 pm #
Really?
We are just talking about our past glory.
Tatas, Wadias, Godrejs are not considered Parsees by the standards set
by the community akbaras, general parsee population and its priests;
one has to go through the Parsee press in Mumbai to really know the
extent of our collective stupidity and short sightedness, the Bomaby
Parsee Panchayat has no clue as how to manage its own affairs; so what
are we are really proud of in the present tense? The bloating, rotting
corpses in our dokmas? We are busy fighting over our dead and just
waiting for the s**t to hit the fan. When disease breaks out due to
this unhygienic practices; will the priests be taking the credit or
our community leaders? What happens when the state walks in to stop
this unhealthy practice and then where does the community go with its’
dead? Will the law of the land required to intervene and appoint
retired judges to settle matters again and again. In the present tense
the elite, the educated and the professionals within our community has
totally failed us and that is the real tructh, rest is all Taroo &
Bsh**t
Ronnie Patel 7 December 2009 at 6:12 pm #
I would like to say that yes you are right but upto certain things.
As of you saying about Urdu, i would like to say that go through the
History of The World & you yourself would come to know that the urdu
speaking people were also originaly Hindus.
As before the Advent of the Mhougals,Urdu was unknown to the people of
Hindustan, it was only that there was a Mass Convertions from Hindus
that urdu was known as the Mother Tounge of the New Religion called
Islam in Hindustan.
If you go to see then why the Muslims of India have the same mode of
Dresses & also the similarities between the Hindi & Urdu.
Only difference i that urdu is written & read as the same as the
Arabic & Hindi is written & read as from the left to right & Urdu from
the Right to Left.
There is no difference in the both, as it was first learned in
Hindustan only.
I hope that it would clear the Doubts.
Jai Hind.
Ronnie.Patel.
Ronnie Patel 7 December 2009 at 6:20 pm #
I fully agree & share the views with you my dear friend.
I am also trying to say that it was In India(HinduKush) as the region
was known at that time, had the best civilizations in the world.
The History is witness to it.
Ronnie Patel 9 December 2009 at 3:41 pm #
Yes Mr. Keki.,
You are really right in what you had written.
I fully endorsed your comments on the above subject.
Everywhere the parsees goes they just create fights among all.
Yes, even our community is fighting over the dead & our dear departed
ones, which shows what culture & civiliazations we parsees have.
Jai Hind.
Ronnie.
keki unwalla 10 December 2009 at 10:46 pm #
I wish our dead & dear departed ones, when alive & not yet departed,
should choose before departing, how they would like to travel. I for
one would not like to hang around the dokmas, bloating & rotting away,
piled upon by other bloating & rotting corpses; polluting away to
greater glory…..
Anti - Dhongidox 10 December 2009 at 11:17 pm #
Dear Keki,
I fully concur with what you have candidly expressed. But there is a
fringe group in our community (present even on Parsi Khabar) who brand
all those who speak facts as IRRELIGIOUS or as having no knowledge of
our Religion.According to them, a STAUNCH Zoroastrian is one who nods
his/her agreement with whatever nonsense the representative of this
fringe group pompously states. They talk of relying on archaelogy and
quote texts of PHORENERS who have published books on our Religion
without ever entering our religious places. The name of the favourite
past time of this fringe fanatics is, “I scratch your back and you
scratch mine” Shower praises on each other, call each other ’staunch’
and exchange bouquets/shawls and attend functions wearing Dagli,
Phenta/ Pugree and grub free food.
That is their concept of staunch Zoroastrian.
keki unwalla 11 December 2009 at 9:57 pm #
dear friend,
why hide behind a fancy name?
let it all hang out in the open.
?staunch?
Definition: stop the flow of a liquid; “staunch the blood flow”; “them
the tide”
piloo. 12 December 2009 at 8:59 am #
These born ‘geniuses’ will mention some obscure terms like ‘ Jaher’ &
‘Baten’ to create a sense of false fear in the minds of simple folks.
The modus operandi is to ‘discuss’ such ’scholastic’ issues by
hijacking an e mail id of a friend or a relative to make it look like
a two way discussion between self styled intellectuals. These
‘geniuses’ measure intellectual level of others by their own
standards.
Firoze Hirjikaka 12 December 2009 at 6:53 pm #
If Aakar Patel’s intention in writing this article was to puff up
Parsi pride, I think he has gone about it the wrong. Bringing culture
and civilization into this serves no useful purpose. Patel would have
served the community better if he had simply stuck to the facts. The
philantrophy of Parsis is legendary and undeniable, but this is due to
the big heartedness of certain individuals. It does not automatically
follow that they became philantrophists because they were Parsis. This
sort of attitude is self defeeating in the long run. As it is, too
many young Parsis today lack drive and ambition; and are content to
bask in the achievements of their forefathers. They believe it
absolves them from hard work and commitment. Take a stroll down any of
the baugs in the evening and you will see what I mean. If left
unchecked, living in the past can become dangerously addictive.
Ronnie Patel 14 December 2009 at 11:22 pm #
Dear Firoze,
I am saying that what our comunity greats had done for the future of
our generations has been appreciated by all.
But at same time i would kindly request you to take a ride through all
the Parsees Baugs you would find debris & dirt all on the open Roads.
Do you call this dirt & fhilth culture & civilaisations,
Always remembe that where there is clean cvilaisation There is God
himself.
Please think Twice before writing.
Thanks.
Jai Hind.
Ronnie
Firoze Hirjikaka 15 December 2009 at 8:19 am #
Dear Ronnie,
The last time I checked, this was a free country and I am perfect
liberty to write whatever I want; nor am I particularly interested in
pleasing you.
The reason Parsis are in a decline is that they continue to live in a
dream world of past glories. Parsis may have been top dogs among the
‘natives’ during the British Raj, but those days are long gone. Walk
through the same baugs you’re so proud of and you will see groups of
jobless young people just hanging around and shooting the breeze in
language that certainly does not reflect a great ‘civilization’.
Parsis continue to believe they are somehow different and superior to
other Indians, when there is no evidence whatsoever to support that
supposition.It is probably one reason why more and more Parsi girls
are marrying outside their community. The choice available among
suitable Parsi boys is severely limited and hardly edifying. The
sooner we Parsis get down of our high horse, the better off we’ll be.
Meher Daruwala 16 December 2009 at 11:44 pm #
I cannot believe this nonsense article. The Parsis settled in India,
have adopted Indian ways and they differentiate between people.
I don’t think he is educated and enlightened enough to know about
Indian History and it’s civilization. He should go back to where his
ancestors came from.
Ronnie Patel 17 December 2009 at 8:59 pm #
Dear Meher,
Thanks a lot for your comments,
I would like to let you know that brfore the Aryans moved from the
South Pole, India was already the Establhish civilized country.
If you do not know that i would kindly inform you to go through the
Histroy of World there you woud find that the best cities at that time
were Harrappa & Mohonjo Daro which were in India,
Even i am Aryan,so please do accept the fact.
Thanks.
Jai Hind.
Ronnie
Siloo Kapadia 17 December 2009 at 11:33 pm #
Firoze-jee:
I agree with what you have written. Yes, the community is going down.
We all know it. The BPP knows it. The youth know it.
However, I just want to state that it is not only Parsi girls that are
marrying outside of the community. Parsi boys are doing likewise.
Partly because of a lack of suitable partners. Partly because that is
the norm.
Yes, our glory days are long-gone. The hogwash of us being “Persian”
is just that, hogwash. We are no more Persian than any other Indian,
other than the fact a FEW of our ancestors came from that part of the
world.
Firoze Hirjikaka 18 December 2009 at 7:59 am #
Ronnie,
“the Aryans moved from the South Pole,”? Since the South Pole has been
virtually inhabitable since the dawn of civilization, I’d be
fascinated to know what history book you’re reading. Maybe the same
one that informed you about the Parsees’ “great civilization.
farzana 19 December 2009 at 10:14 am #
Oh!! I see…”Aryans moved from the South Pole, India was already the
Establhish civilized country.”… we are getting to learn something new
everyday!! Thank you Mr. Ronnie…where did you get this precious piece
of information from??
And while you are at it pluuueeesssse share with us the map of the
‘established civilized country’ -India, as it was 3,000 years ago!!
Thank you.
Ps. and and and the name India was known to the world then. if its
not too much:)
Sorry for the taqleef and shukriya in advance
farzana 19 December 2009 at 11:09 am #
“We are no more Persian than any other Indian, other than the fact a
FEW of our ancestors came from that part of the world.”
True Silloo, i agree with you completely.
Do you know where does the word- ‘Parsi’ comes from?
Sanskrit word for close relatives/neighbors is ‘pars’.
Hindi word is ‘pas’.
Vedas refer to aryan parsi tribes living in Uttarapatha [northern
Indian territories stretching from kashmir- punjab to kamboj-kabul ]
as Parsu [close relatives].
Some of these Parsu tribes moved to Elam/ Iran and established Persian
empire which in turn encompassed number of Indian territories
including Punjab,Sindh, Western Gujarat, Baluchisatan besides present
day Afghanistan which was once Zoroastrian strong hold.
So its not as if Parsis are foreign to subcontinent , particularly to
India and Indians…We should quit behaving like quitters from Iran…
India belongs to us as much as any other Indian since the Vedic
times.
Are you reading this Mr. Ronnie?
Ronnie Patel 19 December 2009 at 8:47 pm #
Dear Firoze,
I have being saying the same that you had just written about, The
youths of the Parsees are nowadays joblesshave you cared to find out
the main reasons behind it, if you have not then i would like to
inform you that the main reason is that our young yoths are not
intrested in studying hard & they just want become Romeos over night.
where as on the other hand our young girls are getting highly
qualified degrees & that is the biggest & main reasons that our girls
are marrying outside the community.
Hope that those youngsters wake up from their deep slumber or else all
that the Pnchayat has would be gone into the hands of the Goernment
which is just waiting lay its dirty hands on all that belongs to the
Parsee Panchayat.
My Adivse to all youth that please do study as the young girls of our
community are studying than only we would be able to be called a
civilized.
Jai Hind.
Ronnie Patel.
RELIGIOUS FREEDOM 20 December 2009 at 3:21 am #
DEAR FIROZE , RONNIE & OTHER READERS ,
WELL REGARDING THE SOUTH POLE COMMENT.
GENE FREQUENCY MEANT ON AN AVERAGE OCCURANCE ( COMMONLY FOUND GENE) OR
IN OTHER WORDS A PARTICULAR GENE DESITY AMONG A GROUP OF PEOPLE OR
REGION.
THIS WIKIPEDIA ARTICLE ALSO SAID THAT THIS GENE M198 – WHICH EXIST
WITH HIGH DENSITY THROUGHOUT “SOUTHERN IRAN COAST & CENTRAL IRAN EXIST
IN EQUAL MEASURE ACROSS PEOPLE OF BALOUCHISTAN , SIND , RAJASTHAN , &
GUJRAT , THOUGH THIS GENE DENSITY REDUCES FROM SOUTH GUJRAT , NORTH
RAJASTAN & PUNJAB & GRADUALLY DISAPPEARS BY THE KARNATAKA BORDER
( SOUTHERN MAH.) , THROUGH SMALL TRIBAL COMM. & CASTE COMM. DO EXHIBIT
SIMIAR GENES PATTERN IN POCKETS OF INDIA.
THIS GENE GOES WEAK TOWARDS NORTH IRAN ( THERAN & SURROND AREAS ) –
INFLUENCE OF MIDDLE-EAST , TURKISH & IRANS ORIGINAL GENES.
PARSIS MIGRATED FROM KHORASTAN , IT MEANS FROM CENTRAL ASIA CARRYING
SAME M198 GENES & SOME FROM SOUTHERN IRAN.
IT IS STATED THAT KHORASTANI & CENTRAL ASIA’S ZORASTRIANS ( BUKHARA )
HAD MANY FIRE – TEMPLE , & BACK THEN ;-
SOURCE :- WIKIPEDIA
Despite these economic and social incentives to convert,
Zoroastrianism remained strong in some regions, particularly in those
furthest away from the Caliphate capital at Baghdad. In Bukhara (in
present-day Uzbekistan), resistance to Islam required the 9th century
Arab commander Qutaiba to convert his province four times. The first
three times the citizens reverted to their old religion. Finally, the
governor made their religion “difficult for them in every way”, turned
the local fire temple into a mosque, and encouraged the local
population to attend Friday prayers by paying each attendee two
dirhams.[8] The cities where Arab governors resided were particularly
vulnerable to such pressures, and in these cases the Zoroastrians were
left with no choice but to either conform or to migrate to regions
that had a more amicable administration.[8]
Among these migrations were those to cities in (or on the margins of)
the great salt deserts, in particular to Yazd and Kerman, which remain
centers of Iranian Zoroastrianism to this day. Yazd became the seat of
the Iranian high priests during Mongol Il-Khanate rule, when the “best
hope for survival [for a non-Muslim] was to be inconspicuous.”[12]
Crucial to the present-day survival of Zoroastrianism was a migration
from the northeastern Iranian town of “Sanjan in south-western
Khorasan”,[13] to Gujarat, in western India. The descendants of that
group are today known as the ‘Parsis’ – “as the Gujaratis, from long
tradition, called anyone from Iran”[13] – and who today represent the
larger of the two groups of Zoroastrians.
HOPE THIS REDUCES TO HALF THE DISPUTE OF HOW IRAN & INDIA ANCHESTORS
WERE COMMON ( MAINLY OF THE REGIONS I MENTIONED ) , BARRING A FEW
OTHER DISTINCT IRANIAN GENES FROM INDIAN , M198 IS JUST ONE GENE
MENTIONED THERE ARE STILL A DOZEN GENE COMBINATION WHICH I HAVE NOT
MENTIONED HERE , A PART OF CENTRAL ASIAN ZORASTRIANS ARE NOW PARSIS
( THOUGH I WOULD CALL THEM INDIAN ( GUJRATI GENES AS TESTED AMONG THE
COMMUNITY ) BECAUSE OF GENERATIONS OF GENES LOSS , BECAUSE OF WHICH
SOME DISTINCT INDIAN GENES (FROM FEMALE SIDE) ARE FOUND AMONG PARSIS),
& BACK THEN SOUNTERN & NORTH IRN. ZORASTR. WERE FIERCELY PATRIOTIC TO
THEIR RELIGION , COMPARED TO OTHER PARTS OF IRAN ( PARTIALLY BECASE
BEING AWAY FROM CAPITAL BAGHDAD ) , & IT IS TODAY ONLY IN THIS PART OF
IRAN THAT MAJORITY OF FIRE-TEMPLE, ZORAS. / AVEST. STILL LIVE.
RELIGIOUS FREEDOM 20 December 2009 at 3:37 am #
DEAR FARZ. , RONS. , TO ALL RADERS IN SHORT ,
THERE WAS NO PARSI IRANIAN CIVILIZATION , PARSI WAS A TERM USED IN
INDIA FOR THE OUTSIDERS AS THEY USED TO BE KNOWN BACK THEN , BRITISH
ARE KNOW TO USED THIS TERM FREQUENTLY.
REGARDING SOUTH POLE , ITS A MISTAKE IT SHOULD BE SOUTH AFRICA FROM
WHERE THEY LANDED IN SOUTH INDIA , BUT THEY ARE HARDCORE DRAVIDIANS
NOT ARYANS , ARYANS MIGRATED FROM RUSSIAN STEPPS & SURPRISING A CITY
DATING SOME 3000 B.C.) HAS BEEN FOUND IN TURKMENISTAN & IT SHOWS FIRE
– TEMPLE AS ONLY PLACE OF WORSHIP ( INDIAN & IRANIAN BOTH PRAYED FIRE
THEN ) & CONSUMPTION OF SOMA PLANT AS LIQUOR , PROPHET ZORASTER , WAS
LIKE GAUTAM BUDDHA , PREACHED THE SAME FIRE – WORSHIP ALBEIT WITH SOME
PURITY STANDARDS , & CALLED THE ARYAN GODS AS PART OF GOOD FORCES
( JUST LIKE WHAT THE BUDDHA SAID ABOUT INDIAN GODS) & THE FIGHT
AGAINST EVIL FORCES.
KERSSIE WADIA 20 December 2009 at 4:08 pm #
None can deny that the philanthropy of the Parsees has been
legendary.
However, today the scenario is quite different. Our glory days no more
exist. They are long gone.
The average Parsee youth seems to have lost the drive and ambition to
succeed. Hard work seems to have become a thing of the past.
We are facing a number of problems today. Our numbers are declining
very rapidly.
1.The average number of children a parsi couple has is a dismal 1.
2.Over one-third of Parsees are unmarried.
3.Again over one-third of them marry out of the community.
4.Over 40 % of Parsees are above 65 years of age.
5.While about 1000 parsees die every year, only 150 children are born.
Where are we leading ourselves to ? Our extinction is imminent.
Our so called leaders claiming “scholarship” over the religion and the
community, seem to be clueless. Except for making untrue statements
like, “we are not decreasing”, “we shall never become extinct” etc.,
no concrete steps are being taken to arrest the declining population.
Is this our civilization ? Is this our culture ?
This is neither “civilization” nor “culture”. For how long will we
Parsees continue to bask in the past glory and refuse to accept and
solve the problems that we are facing today ?
And….about the terrible state our Dokhmas. THE system of Dokhmenashini
has failed completely. No body is against the system of Dokhmenashini
if it is functional. Today the bodies our our dear departed lie
rotting and stinking in the Dokhmas. Is this Dokhmenashini ? Don’t we
need to alter / change the system so that a dignified disposal takes
place ? Is it too much to expect from our so called leaders who claim
“scholarship” over the religion to provide us with proper
alternatives ? Is this our “civilization” ? Is this our “culture” ?
With hope that better sense prevails…
Kerssie Wadia
Voice of Reason. 20 December 2009 at 9:05 pm #
Very true Kerssie, we are indeed heading for extinction of the
Community but the blame for the same is exclusively on the short
sighted electorate who exercised their voting rights based on the food
served by each prospective candidate rather than on the merits and
qualifications of the candidates. Community gets the ‘government’ they
deserve. To expect moral integrity from self styled Scholars is just
expecting too much.
Anti-Dhongidox. 20 December 2009 at 11:31 pm #
Kerssie Wadia,
I differ with your perception that average Parsi youth has no desire
for hard work. In this country, Reservations have caused frustration
amongst the youths. With 90% marks it is impossible to secure
admissions in Medical or Engineering Colleges. On the other hand our
youngsters try to emulate others who grow up on easy money.Even some
of our community’s netas ‘earn’ thru doles. What encouragement our
community youths receive for higher studies? I wonder why our
Punchayets of Mumbai, Surat and Pune can not reserve some paid seats
in institutes of higher learning for deserving studious youngsters. I
feel the elders alone are to be blamed.
As for your remark about the state of affairs for disposal of mortal
remains, nothing short of a sustained campaign against the
‘Traditionalists’ would free the community from arm twisting coterie
which talks of ‘package deal’ and denying prayer facilities to those
who choose to opt for an efficient disposal. In fact, on reading PTA
edit in Bombay Samachar of 20th inst, should open the eyes of those
who attended and applauded at the Dadar Parsi Gymkhana meet a couple
of months back.
For those who talk about observing the provisions of respective Trust
Deeds, one wonders if Charity Trust like Fire Temples are allowed to
make money by selling
Well Water to water Tankers. There is absolutely no check on number of
tankers filled up by the tanker drivers.
I propose to take up this issue with the Office of Charity
Commissioner since such sale of Well water by Fire temples would not
be in consonance with the provisions of relative Trust Deeds.
piloo. 21 December 2009 at 1:40 pm #
“Where are we leading ourselves to ? Our extinction is imminent.”
Yes, Kersi Wadia, the community elders and akabars are catering to
whims of a few fanatic bigots and those having ingrained qualities of
double standards.Community is indeed heading for self destruction. I
agree with you fully in context of facts and statistics though I feel
conversion is not the solution for increasing our numbers.
As for disposal of mortal remains,what is required is a pioneering
effort to set up a prayer Hall in the City with amenities for 4 days
prayers. Absence of such a infrastructure is the biggest handicap
which is sadistically exploited by the bigots who relish imposing
their cult on all as if they are God sent messengers and divine
interpreters of our Holy Scriptures.
a.rustomjee 21 December 2009 at 4:57 pm #
Piloo and Voice of Reason,
You have expressed the view that majority of Zoros in Bombay hold but
are too scared to utter.Fervent prayer that the Almighty listens to
wishes of thousands and brings relief in form of outcome of
Originating Summons.
farzana 21 December 2009 at 10:12 pm #
Y_A_W_N MR RONNIE or WHOEVER YOU ARE,
migration of HUMAN POPULATION began with the movement of Homo erectus
out of Africa across Eurasia about a MILLION YEARS AGO…
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/02/22/MN5RV6L1C.DTL
Fyi, THIS MIGRATION HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH DRAVIDS OR ARYANS!! THIS
WAS A COLLECTIVE HUMAN MIGRATION? SAMJEY? AND THIS HAPPENED A MILLION
YEARS AGO!!
INDUS VALLEY CIVILIZATION STARTED APPROXIMATELY SIX THOUSAND YEARS
AGO…
ON WESTERN PARTS OF SUBCONTINIENT WHICH ARE NOW MOSTLY IN PAKISTAN.
THIS CIVILIZATION WAS STATED BY ELAMITES/ DRAVIDIANS WHO WERE SPREAD
IN THE AREAS STRETCHING FROM MESOPOTAMIA AND IRAN TO SUBCONTINIENT
WHICH ENCOMPASSED DRAVIDIAN CULTURE ALSO KNOWN AS ELAMITE CULTURE…
BEFORE THE MIGRATION OF ARYANS TOOK PLACE
BTW THE ORIGINAL NAME FOR IRAN WAS ELAM, [YES IN TAMIL 'ELAM' MEANS
'HOMELAND']…
AND ELAMITE WAS AN OFFICIAL LANGUAGE IN PERSIAN EMPIRE.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elamite_language
GOES TO SHOW THAT GEOGRAPHICALLY ‘ELAM’ INCLUDED AREAS OF IRAN TO
WESTERN INDIA AS ONE COUNTRY, BEFORE THE ARYAN MIGRATION TOOK PLACE
APPROXIMATELY 3,000 YEARS AGO FROM CENTRAL ASIA…. THAT STARTED THE
VEDIC PERIOD.
KERSSIE WADIA 22 December 2009 at 10:53 am #
We Parsis have achieved the dubious distinction of working against the
tenets of our own religion.
1. Our religion is based on cleanliness. Yet some of our leaders who
claim “scholarship” over the religion would want the bodies of our
departed rot in the Dokhmas, in the name of the religion !!
2. Our religion tells us to apply our good mind and good mind alone to
any situation in life. Yet some of us vote for our leaders based on
the food served by them, and ignore the truly accomplished candidates
in the process !!
3. Our religion teaches us Manashni, Gavashni, and Kunashni. Yet our
leaders who claim “scholarship” over the religion ban the poor priests
because they pray for those departed who opt for cremation or
burial !!
All this happens because our so called vada dasturjis have miserably
failed to act in a non partisan manner for reasons unknown and
unexplained to the masses. They too seem to have fallen prey to
worldly materialistic thought process having ceased to use their Good
mind.
Is this our ‘civilization’ and ‘culture’ that we brag about so often ?
KERSSIE WADIA
farzana 22 December 2009 at 2:10 pm #
The gist is, 6,000 ago India did not exist as one country as we see it
today geographically.
Certain parts of western india, pakistan and southeast iran formed one
entity that had a common culture namely Elamite. Therefore its
incorrect to contribute INDUS VALLEY CIVILIZATION to India alone… It
is s as much pakistani and as much Iranian parsi as its indian.
If there was no Parsi civilization according to our cut paste
scholars- Mr Ronnie and his other pseudo… ; than Indus valley
civilization is not an Indian civilization either…. Go figure.
Jayant Kulkarni 22 December 2009 at 3:18 pm #
Hi !
The gentleman has stated
“Indians have culture but not civilization. Culture is how we
entertain ourselves; civilization is how we entertain others”
I think he has forgotten that this very culture ( according to him )
has entertained Parsis when they were thrown out of Persia. No where
in this universe you will find culture (according to him) giving
political asylum to any community which landed here to seek it.
I don’t know what to say about this gross inability of this gentleman
at least to thank this CULTURE !
Jayant
farzana 22 December 2009 at 7:11 pm #
Jayant bhau, chill.
The gentleman in question is some Aakar Patel..doesn’t seem to be a
Parsi in the first place…
Secondly the piece is a covert attempt at creating communal wedge
between Hindus and Parsis by some sick minded individual …
and best of all, no Parsi here agrees with him.
Well, and regarding your post, Parsis were not thrown out of Persia.
There has always been Hindu and Buddhist minority living as equals in
Persia [ esp in areas of afghanistan and pakistan] for thousands of
years while it was under Parsi establishment…the same way as Parsi
minority has been living in India.
Tolerance to each other’s beliefs has been mutual.
thank you
Siloo Kapadia 22 December 2009 at 10:15 pm #
It is interesting to know that more members of the community are
interested in the well-being of vultures and the disposal of mortal
remains than they are of propagation of the faith and acceptance of
new believers.
Yes, Piloo, deekree, I agree with you 100%. With “enlightened”
thinking such as what we see, it will be a miracle if the community
will be around in South Asia after 50 years.
Jayant Kulkarni 23 December 2009 at 2:44 pm #
Hi !
I agree with your views. In fact the recent study shows that the Indus
civilization which met with calamity due to drying up of the river
saraswati migrated to Persia and India. Thus the similarities in their
culture. I will post a link to this study at a later stage as I don’t
have it now.
By the way I like Parsis and have studied a lot about the ancient
Persia. I can certainly say that wine was invented in Persia which was
called jehar-e-khush ! ))
Regards,
Jayant
farzana 24 December 2009 at 2:51 pm #
Jayant,
wine was invented by one of our common ancestors – King Yim , the same
dude as Yamraj in Vedas …So goes the story in persian… Anyway who
cares about it being authentic or not as long as we all have a good
excuse to party-sharty and enjoy good things in life…:)
regarding Indus civilization,…unearthed Indus seals depict scenes with
rhinos and elephants amidst plains of wild grass and trees, goes to
show that Saraswati [Herahwati] valley was once a green belt bursting
with nature full of varied life forms…It may have dried up eventually
due to overuse of natural resources and cutting down of forests
mindlessly turning it into Thar desert. It really saddens me to see…
how even today most of us use up our energy in ego fights over silly
past, silly religions, their silly books and their silly authors… when
its more imperative for us to get our priorities right and make united
efforts at preserving whatever remains of nature around us for our own
survival… and survival of our civilization…
farzana 24 December 2009 at 8:06 pm #
very well said, Kersee:)
Mihir 24 December 2009 at 9:49 pm #
btw did u forget to mention … pieces from history of mumbai ?
making of the city was funded by parsi’s too …
#BSE
JJ Hospital ?
but we must not think of AMBANIs as whole of india?
in my opinion it needs a revisit …
Ronnie Patel 25 December 2009 at 11:08 pm #
Dear Farzana,or whatever you may be.
For your kind information India was already a estabhlished country,
but what about Iran, at that time Aryans were unheard about, only it
was when the Aryans felt their homes in Arya Nam Vaijo that we got to
learn about the Aryans & it was first that the Aryans settled in Indus
valley, One group of Aryans sttled down in Iran & the other group
moved to GHermany, it was for this particular reasin that Hitler
accepted Swatika as their Emblem & was proud to be an Aryan.
From where did you get the other story i dont know, but i think that
your History has been made by you only.
Please learn before you write any dammn thing.
Jai Hind.
Ronnie Patel 25 December 2009 at 11:16 pm #
It was a part of My Beautiful India Formerly.
It was the Britishers who are main culprits for dividing the Two Sons
of One Mother & that the name of the Mother is & was & will be known
as Bharatmata for your kind information Farzana.
So, naturally Indus valley was & would be in the future again a part
of my mother Bharatmata.
Jai Hindustan.& not your Pakistan.
farzana 27 December 2009 at 6:45 pm #
“For your kind information India was already a estabhlished country,
but what about Iran, at that time Aryans were unheard about, ”
Dear Mr. Scholar,
Can you show us the Map of India as an establshed country during indus
valley civilization (ie. before the aryan migration took place)?
And the name it was known by?…
no, it was not ‘Bharat’…
Bharat was an ARYAN CLAN named after its leader and ruler, you should
have known this, dear scholarjee!
==> “From where did you get the other story i dont know, but i think
that your History has been made by you only.
Please learn before you write any dammn thing.”
Hmmm who said i know anything… I know nothing, that is why im looking
forward to get answers from you, dear scholar and self style historian
jee
So when will i get to see the map and the name i requested, dear
scholarjeee?
farzana 27 December 2009 at 7:01 pm #
Oh! Wow! we’ll have a Family get together in the future… Mother Bharat
[?] will get united with all her sons… -Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran,
Bangladesh!!
What a profound thought!!
though, I wonder what Mother Bharat will do with appox 2 billion
Muslim grand sons!!
Btw, Mr Bharat, do you usually go to forum like this to entertain
forumers for free?
farzana 27 December 2009 at 9:41 pm #
[Dear moderator, plz delete the above double post sent by me at
11:16pm. Thank you]
Oh! Wow! we’ll be having a family reunion in the future…
Mother Bharat [?] will get united with all her sons… -Pakistan,
Afghanistan, Iran, Bangladesh!!
What a profound thought!!
though, I wonder what Mother Bharat will do with appox 2 billion
Muslim grand sons!!:)
What do you think Mother Bharat should do about her son- Germany?
Should she annex it?
Interesting Phamily!!
Btw, Mr Bharat, do you usually go to forums like this to entertain
forumers for free? just asking:D
Nawazish 31 December 2009 at 11:12 pm #
Hello Everyone,
I must say that this article and it’s following comments got quite
ugly and belligerent quickly. Intrestingly we have covered, genetics,
rationale, dead bodies, condition of the country, Geography, Indian
people, Money, religion, faith, color and a whole bunch of other
relevant matter in this reading.
Please keep in mind, that we are all writing this with an emotional
bent of mind and probably not very logical. We, as individuals,
believe what we must based on common sense, knowlegde (or lack of it),
nurture and experiences. So none of us who have contributed or the
silent ones, are either terribly correct or wrong either.
Here is a suggestion; watch a documentary called ‘Journey of Man’ – A
Genetic Odyessey by Spencer Wells. I’ve seen it and it explains to aa
large extent the movement of mankind from Africa to South America
throo Persia, The Indian subcontinent and so on.
‘Pars -i’ – I sure do like the explanation for the word coming from
sanskrit but here is another one. Give me your thoughts on this.
‘Pars’ coming from the province/region ‘Fars’in Persia and ‘i’ meaning
from that place in india. Eg:Bihar – Bihari, Gujurat -Gujurati. Could
it have meant that the Indians called the foreigners, people from Fars
morphing over to Parsi over the years.
For what it’s worth, land is no mans to keep. So yes, we have to be
grateful for the region of india that has graciously embodied us in
many ways. Secondly, are we actually being racist in determining that
we are superior or better in any miniscule way at all? It’s worth
thinking about.
So everyone is talking and debating about the very roots of the
parsis. Start with religion as it’s called in India, used to be faith
in Persia, or simply a way of life. That has transposed to being veyr
brutal about Parsis vs. Iranis in India. What happened to culture and
civilized behaviour there?
Some shun others and some create dintinct classes, and this is still
within Parsis, let alone the Hindus and others.
In Iran, anyone is allowed in a fire temple but not in India. In Ira,
as suppressed as the public is, it’s ok for a muslim to marry a
zoroastrian but not in India. We have forgotten that we as a race or
creed, come from the same roots. So why Iranis, Parsis, and the
remaining sub-castes?
Are we not all Zarthustis that read the same book, and try to follow a
humble way of life, notably good thoughts, words and deeds? Hey, Try
those to begin with as somehow all differences go away and all you see
is gray. Try being a decent person and in many ways you will relive
the ideology of Zarathustra from a long time ago.
We all have answers to everything it seems, specially evident in this
discussion, but no one asks the right questions.
Cheerio.
Abhijeet Ganguly 7 January 2010 at 1:14 am #
I simply wish the Parsees remain in India as long as India exists.
They are Indians as any other Indian so it’s irrelevant where they
came from.
I am so much fascinated by this community ( maybe because I come from
Jamshedpur).
I feel quite sad everytime I hear talk of the Parsee population
declining.
There is simply no denying the fact that Parsees are the most ethical
of all the communities in India.
Radical moves are required to reverse the declining population and
ensure survival of both the community and the religion.
Vivek G 15 March 2010 at 1:04 pm #
Brilliant article! As an Indian, I am not offended. I actually agree
with the author. In fact, I would argue that Indians neither have
culture nor civilization. There is no country in the world that I am
aware of where people urinate and defecate in the open ( even the so-
called “educated” ones do this in India ). Persians are indeed
cultured as well; it is just that their culture has been repressed by
Arab savagery but by Ahura Mazda’s grace they will rise again soon.
Regards.
http://parsikhabar.net/parsis-have-civilization-other-indians-don%E2%80%99t/
Parsi Khabar
Parsis: The Zoroastrians Of India
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Archive for 'Heritage'
The last Bhuj Parsi passes away http://parsikhabar.net/the-last-bhuj-parsi-passes-away/
Posted 24 April 2010 | By arzan sam wadia | Categories: Heritage,
History, News | No Comments
Roadaben Sorabji Botwala spent her whole life in Bhuj
Bhuj, the district headquarters of Kutch, which once boasted of a
large population of Parsis is sad at the death last weekend of the
last surviving member of the Zoroastrian community. Seventy-eight year
old Roadaben Sorabji Botwala, who spent her whole life here, and who
also looked [...]
Zoroastrianism: Its Stewardship for all Creation, the Animate and the
Inanimate. http://parsikhabar.net/zoroastrianism-its-stewardship-for-all-creation-the-animate-and-the-inanimate/
Posted 02 April 2010 | By arzan sam wadia | Categories: Culture,
Heritage, History, Prayers, Religion | 30 Comments
Below is the text of presentation by Pervin J. Mistry at the
Parliament of Worlds Religions, Melbourne, December 5th, 2009. This
was circulated by the author via email to a newsgroup. All copyrights
are with the author.
We are the oldest monotheistic religion.
Asho Zarathushtra is our Holy Prophet.
Our Revealed Book is the [...]
On Navroze Parsis Fight For Survival http://parsikhabar.net/on-navroze-parsis-fight-for-survival/
Posted 23 March 2010 | By arzan sam wadia | Categories: Festivities,
Heritage, Issues | 17 Comments
Adil Fatakia literally lives in the past; the 65-year-old bachelor
takes great pride and interest in the rich legacy of his community. In
fact, he can trace his family tree 13 centuries back to when the first
Parsis landed in Sanjan near Nargol – fleeing religious persecution in
Persia, now Iran.
By Tejas Patel, NDTV, Nagrol, [...]
From Persia to Bangalore http://parsikhabar.net/from-persia-to-bangalore/
Posted 22 March 2010 | By arzan sam wadia | Categories: Heritage,
History | No Comments
Dinshaw Cawasji, President of The Bangalore Parsee Zoroastrian Anjuman
narrates the history of Parsees; how they took refuge in a small
coastal town in Gujarat after agreeing to several conditions laid down
by the then Maharaja of Sanjan.
By Sudha Narasimhachar , 18 Mar 2010
In the mid-eighties when I used to travel on Bellary Road [...]
Navroze Recognition by United Nations http://parsikhabar.net/navroze-recognition-by-united-nations/
Posted 04 March 2010 | By arzan sam wadia | Categories: Announcements,
Heritage, News | 1 Comment
The UN has acknowledged the festival of Navroze as a Heritage of
Humanity. The below is an email forwarde by Mickie Sorabjee.
Dear All,
You will be happy to know that finally, after some years of delay,
this news of Navroze being awarded the UNESCO award as an Intangible
Heritage of Humanity has come through officially. [...]
Think value, think vintage
Posted 30 November 2009 | By Shirin Kumaana-Wadia | Categories:
Fashion, Heritage | No Comments
Luxury is now about a different idea, an out-of-the-world experience,
not just products and names…
This week I am in Bombay where, between interviewing the Chief
Minister and an encounter specialist who survived 26/11 (but still has
a bullet lodged in his right elbow), the city helped me remember
something unique about luxury I had discovered [...]
Of An Edwardian India http://parsikhabar.net/think-value-think-vintage/
Posted 30 November 2009 | By arzan sam wadia | Categories: Culture,
Customs, Heritage, India | 1 Comment
When life in a Parsi household was lived at a leisurely pace…
By Silloo Mehta
Indian cities were beautiful a century ago. Bungalows had gardens,
leafy parks were well maintained and flowering trees arboured the
streets. There was an air of space, tranquillity and wellbeing. We
were a joint middle class family, Grandpa the benign patriarch. [...]
The Zorastrian Journey http://parsikhabar.net/the-zorastrian-journey/
Posted 16 October 2009 | By arzan sam wadia | Categories: Heritage,
History | No Comments
The below video is a presentation by ZAGNY and IZA New York.
Hawkers Evicted from around Bhikhabehram Well
http://parsikhabar.net/hawkers-evicted-from-around-bhikhabehram-well/
Posted 10 September 2009 | By arzan sam wadia | Categories: Bombay,
Heritage, Mumbai | 2 Comments
After 30 years, 100 hawkers evicted from Cross Maidan
It was jubilation on Saturday for local residents, who finally
succeeded in ridding the southern tip of Cross Maidan of a major
nuisance
By Manoj R Nair
Demolition crews from the City Collectorate removed over 100 stalls
that had stubbornly resisted all earlier attempts of eviction
For the first time [...]
Parsis fight to keep Sanjan coastline clean
http://parsikhabar.net/parsis-fight-to-keep-sanjan-coastline-clean/
Posted 03 September 2009 | By arzan sam wadia | Categories: Heritage,
News | 3 Comments
Over a thousand years ago, Parsis landed on the shores of Sanjan on
the Gujarat coast, seeking shelter and were welcomed by the local raja
who allowed them to settle on his land. The descendants of these
migrants are now paying back that debt by helping local resP6-2.TIM
environmental pollution on the coastline.
Several city [...]
Religious Adultery and Parsis http://parsikhabar.net/religious-adultery-and-parsis/
Posted 27 August 2009 | By arzan sam wadia | Categories: Current
Affairs, Customs, Heritage, History, Institutions, Issues, Opinion,
Prayers, fire temple | 8 Comments
Ervad Marzban J. Hathiram, a good old friend, editor of
Frashogard.com and the Panthaki at the Jogeshwari Daremehr has written
a hard hitting post on religious adultery.
Marzban writes
My apologies for not updating the blog for the last few weeks since I
was tied up in the Muktad preparations and prayers in our Daremeher at
[...]
The Parsis in Colonies http://parsikhabar.net/the-parsis-in-colonies/
Posted 26 August 2009 | By arzan sam wadia | Categories: Bombay,
Heritage, Mumbai | No Comments
This is a hilarious forward sent to us by dear family friend and
regular Parsi Khabar reader Bakhtavar Mistry.
BE PROUD as After the the British colonies there is only the parsi
colonies on which the sun never sets Because ……………
at 2 am old ladies are chasing stray dogs with sticks,
at 3 am somebody’s [...]
Nargol to host a Parsi Festival http://parsikhabar.net/nargol-to-host-a-parsi-festival/
Posted 20 August 2009 | By arzan sam wadia | Categories: Culture,
Current Affairs, Heritage, History | 4 Comments
Nargol is set to become the first village in the country to host a
Parsi festival. This will be similar to government sponsored annual
fests like Tarnetar fair, Kutch festival and kite festival.
The historic village was developed by first generation immigrant
Parsis who landed on the Arabian Sea coast in Valsad’s Umbergaon
taluka bordering [...]
Sapat Makers: Kerawalla and Company http://parsikhabar.net/sapat-makers-kerawalla-and-company/
Posted 19 August 2009 | By arzan sam wadia | Categories: Culture,
Heritage | No Comments
Somewhere in the noisy lanes of Dhobi Talao stands a picturesque shop;
a little old fashioned, with a small cosy bench, and loads of
memories. The owner is a fourth generation Parsi; but the heavy wooden
name board proclaiming the store’s 1887 roots has been recently
replaced with a new one. “But the character [...]
http://parsikhabar.net/category/heritage/
...and I am Sid harth
http://bakulaji.typepad.com/blog/parsi-the-lost-tribe-of-persia-sid-harth.html
The Premier Portal for all the news in the world about Parsis: The
Zoroastrians of India More →
Parsis have civilization; other Indians don’t
By Aakar Patel / Mint
Published: 05.12.2009 / 04:32 AM
Category: Heritage, India, Opinion
Culture is our attitude to beauty and ugliness, to power, to religion,
and to family. It shows in our music, in what makes us laugh.
Civilization is our attitude to mankind
Indians have culture but not civilization. Culture is how we entertain
ourselves; civilization is how we entertain others. Culture is our
attitude to beauty and ugliness, to power, to religion, and to family.
It shows in our music, in what makes us laugh. Civilization is our
attitude to mankind. It’s defined as social development of an advanced
stage, but civilization never actually arrives; it is only reached
for. It assumes there is high purpose to life, to wealth, to culture.
It believes that man will exhibit the signs of his evolution. He will
improve upon man. For this he must build—but what?
The Birlas built six temples (India always being in urgent need of
more religion).
They built temples in Jaipur, Hyderabad, Delhi, Mumbai, Patna and
Kolkata. Most of these are to Lakshminarayan, and these are only the
big ones. No Indian family has built more, or bigger, temples than the
Birlas, and that is their contribution to our culture.
Mukesh Ambani is building on Altamount Road a structure called
Antilla, the most expensive home in history. Its architects Hirsch
Bedner say their estimate for it is around $2 billion. That is Rs9,000
crore, and four people will live in this house. That is Ambani’s
contribution to our culture.
The Birlas built schools for the rich, and the Ambanis made a school
for millionaires. BITS-Pilani’s fee is Rs1 lakh per year, Birla
Vidyamandir’s fee is Rs1 lakh per year and Dhirubhai Ambani
International School’s fee just for classes XI and XII is Rs7.57 lakh.
At the Aditya Birla Memorial Hospital (“Compassionate Quality
Healthcare”), a check-up for headaches costs Rs2,850.
At the Kokilaben Dhirubhai Ambani Hospital (“Every Life Matters”), the
wellness check-up costs Rs5,000.
At the Tata Memorial Hospital, which treats cancer, healthcare is
free.
Rajashree Birla says Indians “don’t have the mindset to give away
large amounts of money to charity”. The act of leaving “just a little
bit for their children”, she says, “happens only in the US”.
“It calls for very large-heartedness,” she says, “I don’t see this
happening in the Indian context in the near future at least.”
She’s right about our mindset and culture, but wrong in assuming that
the problem is about large-heartedness: It is actually about a lack of
civilization.
She’s wrong also about this not happening in future: It already has
happened in India.
Of Tata Sons’ 398,563 shares, 65.8% is held by charitable trusts
(Ratan Tata owns 0.84%). How much money are we talking about? Tata
Sons’ net profit last year was Rs3,780 crore. Tata Sons owns 74% of
Tata Consultancy Services and 84% of Tata Motors. If wealthy Indians
want to give back to society, they need only buy Jaguar and Land
Rover, and not Mercedes and BMW. Tata Sons owns 31% of Tata Steel, 20%
of Tata Teleservices and 22% of Tata Tea.
Indians should buy their books from Landmark, their phones from Tata
Indicom, their television sets and washing machines from Croma; and
they should stay at the Taj. They should drink Tetley tea and
Himalayan mineral water. They should watch TV on TataSky and get
themselves insured with Tata AIG. Why?
Last year, Sir Dorabji Tata Trust gave away Rs201 crore. Sir Ratan
Tata Trust gave away Rs153 crore. This is not CSR (corporate social
responsibility) or other corporate varnish: It’s pure philanthropy.
Witness its quality: Tata Institute of Fundamental Research, Tata
Institute of Social Sciences, Tata Energy Research Institute (Teri),
Indian Institute of Science, National Centre for the Performing Arts.
That is civilization.
In Europe, the ownership and efficient management of such a giant
corporate by charitable trusts would be stunning.
But we use the phrase “Tata-Birla-Ambani” easily, as if the words were
interchangeable. One of them has nothing in common with the other two.
JRD sent 81% of Tata Sons’ income to charity. We thanked him by
nationalizing his beloved Air India, firing him as chairman and
running it into the ground.
The Tatas set up Teri, India’s first green industry initiative, in
1974. Under R.K. Pachauri, in 2003, the name Tata was neatly excised
from Teri and replaced with the word “The”. Now, Teri’s magazine and
website are testament to the greatness of Pachauri, who will show up
to collect any award you give him, including GQ Man of the Year. But
that is our culture.
Parsis have civilization, but not culture. They cannot speak old
Persian and their Avesta they cannot read. For language, they lean on
Gujarati, for music they lean on Brahms. Their beautiful women wear
saris.
Their last names are Gujarati: Broacha (of Bharuch), Anklesaria (of
Ankleshwar), Surti (of Surat), Mehta (accountant) and Gandhi (grocer).
Their first names are great names in history, names that made Athens
and Sparta and Corinth tremble—Ksayarsa, Kurush Buzurg and Daarivush.
Herodotus and Thucydides called them Xerxes, Cyrus the Great and
Darius. Parsis cannot even speak their own first names.
From 500 BC, Parsis fought Europe. They spilt and drew blood in
history’s most famous battles: Marathon, Thermopylae, Salamis and
Plataea. Hollywood’s cardboard Leonidas looks heroic in 300 (Xerxes is
shown as demented), but actually the Parsi Immortals butchered the
Spartans at Thermopylae and the terrified Athenians abandoned their
city. Alexander the Great conquered the Parsis in 334 BC and the Arabs
under Umar drove them from their lands in 644. But the real Parsi
surrender came in Bombay when they submitted to the individualism of
Enlightened Europe.
We hate sweeping statements about Indians, and generalizations about
India. The problem is that everywhere in India the same evidence keeps
slapping us in the face. We’ve become good at looking away. We think
we are Aryans, descended from the Caucasus. Parsis also believe that.
Zarathushtra’s god was Ahura and his demons were Daiva. But the Rig
Ved says Deva must be our god and our demons Asura.
Aakar Patel is a director with Hill Road Media.
Send your feedback to ***@livemint.com
Copyright © 2007 HT Media All Rights Reserved
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46 Responses to “Parsis have civilization; other Indians don’t”
Owais Pahlav Khorassaini 5 December 2009 at 6:18 pm #
Dear Sir,
I have a question about the the great iranians and indians. The
following statement is true or not, is every fair indians claim we are
pure iranian ?
I quoted the referance from book the THE ENCYCLOPAEDIA MYTHS & LEGENDS
OF ALL NATIONS; the writers are H.S. Robinson and K. Wilson.
” The group of Aryans who swept into the land of India, long ages ago,
were cousins of the Iranians, whose ancient religion has been briefly
described in the preceding chapter. One finds in the earliest indian
literature deities who go back to the time when the ancestors of
persian and indians were still one.”
The second question is who are the real ancestors of Urdu speaking
peoples?
I am wating your reply
Thank You
Best Regards
Owais A. Pahlavi.
Ronnie Patel 5 December 2009 at 11:31 pm #
I would like to kindly remind the Parsees that before the advent of
the Aryans from the south pole, it was in India that we had the best
civilization in the form of Harrapa & Mohanjo Daro which were the two
best cities in the world at that time, so please do not say that only
we Parsees have the best civilization. Yes after the Aryans settled
down in Iran That we had the best civilization, but even India had the
best culture & civilization at that time.
Please do not mixed up the History with your own story.
History is the witness that only india had the best civilization in
the world & it is the Hindus that gave the world the best
civilizations & the best culture to the world.
Zubin Wadia 6 December 2009 at 4:53 am #
I am struggling to understand the intent of this article. It’s got a
very polarizing stance and I can’t for the life of me understand what
purpose it serves.
“But the real Parsi surrender came in Bombay when they submitted to
the individualism of Enlightened Europe.”
So… we brought knowledge of ship building, steam power and electricity
to Mumbai and that’s surrender? We built a hotel open to all and not
just white people – that’s surrender?
According to the sheer idiocy of your rationale, I am surrendering to
‘Western Enlightenment’ by replying to ***@livemint.com
As for race, lineage and genealogy – do a DNA test and figure it out!
Everybody is different.
keki unwalla 7 December 2009 at 12:40 pm #
Really?
We are just talking about our past glory.
Tatas, Wadias, Godrejs are not considered Parsees by the standards set
by the community akbaras, general parsee population and its priests;
one has to go through the Parsee press in Mumbai to really know the
extent of our collective stupidity and short sightedness, the Bomaby
Parsee Panchayat has no clue as how to manage its own affairs; so what
are we are really proud of in the present tense? The bloating, rotting
corpses in our dokmas? We are busy fighting over our dead and just
waiting for the s**t to hit the fan. When disease breaks out due to
this unhygienic practices; will the priests be taking the credit or
our community leaders? What happens when the state walks in to stop
this unhealthy practice and then where does the community go with its’
dead? Will the law of the land required to intervene and appoint
retired judges to settle matters again and again. In the present tense
the elite, the educated and the professionals within our community has
totally failed us and that is the real tructh, rest is all Taroo &
Bsh**t
Ronnie Patel 7 December 2009 at 6:12 pm #
I would like to say that yes you are right but upto certain things.
As of you saying about Urdu, i would like to say that go through the
History of The World & you yourself would come to know that the urdu
speaking people were also originaly Hindus.
As before the Advent of the Mhougals,Urdu was unknown to the people of
Hindustan, it was only that there was a Mass Convertions from Hindus
that urdu was known as the Mother Tounge of the New Religion called
Islam in Hindustan.
If you go to see then why the Muslims of India have the same mode of
Dresses & also the similarities between the Hindi & Urdu.
Only difference i that urdu is written & read as the same as the
Arabic & Hindi is written & read as from the left to right & Urdu from
the Right to Left.
There is no difference in the both, as it was first learned in
Hindustan only.
I hope that it would clear the Doubts.
Jai Hind.
Ronnie.Patel.
Ronnie Patel 7 December 2009 at 6:20 pm #
I fully agree & share the views with you my dear friend.
I am also trying to say that it was In India(HinduKush) as the region
was known at that time, had the best civilizations in the world.
The History is witness to it.
Ronnie Patel 9 December 2009 at 3:41 pm #
Yes Mr. Keki.,
You are really right in what you had written.
I fully endorsed your comments on the above subject.
Everywhere the parsees goes they just create fights among all.
Yes, even our community is fighting over the dead & our dear departed
ones, which shows what culture & civiliazations we parsees have.
Jai Hind.
Ronnie.
keki unwalla 10 December 2009 at 10:46 pm #
I wish our dead & dear departed ones, when alive & not yet departed,
should choose before departing, how they would like to travel. I for
one would not like to hang around the dokmas, bloating & rotting away,
piled upon by other bloating & rotting corpses; polluting away to
greater glory…..
Anti - Dhongidox 10 December 2009 at 11:17 pm #
Dear Keki,
I fully concur with what you have candidly expressed. But there is a
fringe group in our community (present even on Parsi Khabar) who brand
all those who speak facts as IRRELIGIOUS or as having no knowledge of
our Religion.According to them, a STAUNCH Zoroastrian is one who nods
his/her agreement with whatever nonsense the representative of this
fringe group pompously states. They talk of relying on archaelogy and
quote texts of PHORENERS who have published books on our Religion
without ever entering our religious places. The name of the favourite
past time of this fringe fanatics is, “I scratch your back and you
scratch mine” Shower praises on each other, call each other ’staunch’
and exchange bouquets/shawls and attend functions wearing Dagli,
Phenta/ Pugree and grub free food.
That is their concept of staunch Zoroastrian.
keki unwalla 11 December 2009 at 9:57 pm #
dear friend,
why hide behind a fancy name?
let it all hang out in the open.
?staunch?
Definition: stop the flow of a liquid; “staunch the blood flow”; “them
the tide”
piloo. 12 December 2009 at 8:59 am #
These born ‘geniuses’ will mention some obscure terms like ‘ Jaher’ &
‘Baten’ to create a sense of false fear in the minds of simple folks.
The modus operandi is to ‘discuss’ such ’scholastic’ issues by
hijacking an e mail id of a friend or a relative to make it look like
a two way discussion between self styled intellectuals. These
‘geniuses’ measure intellectual level of others by their own
standards.
Firoze Hirjikaka 12 December 2009 at 6:53 pm #
If Aakar Patel’s intention in writing this article was to puff up
Parsi pride, I think he has gone about it the wrong. Bringing culture
and civilization into this serves no useful purpose. Patel would have
served the community better if he had simply stuck to the facts. The
philantrophy of Parsis is legendary and undeniable, but this is due to
the big heartedness of certain individuals. It does not automatically
follow that they became philantrophists because they were Parsis. This
sort of attitude is self defeeating in the long run. As it is, too
many young Parsis today lack drive and ambition; and are content to
bask in the achievements of their forefathers. They believe it
absolves them from hard work and commitment. Take a stroll down any of
the baugs in the evening and you will see what I mean. If left
unchecked, living in the past can become dangerously addictive.
Ronnie Patel 14 December 2009 at 11:22 pm #
Dear Firoze,
I am saying that what our comunity greats had done for the future of
our generations has been appreciated by all.
But at same time i would kindly request you to take a ride through all
the Parsees Baugs you would find debris & dirt all on the open Roads.
Do you call this dirt & fhilth culture & civilaisations,
Always remembe that where there is clean cvilaisation There is God
himself.
Please think Twice before writing.
Thanks.
Jai Hind.
Ronnie
Firoze Hirjikaka 15 December 2009 at 8:19 am #
Dear Ronnie,
The last time I checked, this was a free country and I am perfect
liberty to write whatever I want; nor am I particularly interested in
pleasing you.
The reason Parsis are in a decline is that they continue to live in a
dream world of past glories. Parsis may have been top dogs among the
‘natives’ during the British Raj, but those days are long gone. Walk
through the same baugs you’re so proud of and you will see groups of
jobless young people just hanging around and shooting the breeze in
language that certainly does not reflect a great ‘civilization’.
Parsis continue to believe they are somehow different and superior to
other Indians, when there is no evidence whatsoever to support that
supposition.It is probably one reason why more and more Parsi girls
are marrying outside their community. The choice available among
suitable Parsi boys is severely limited and hardly edifying. The
sooner we Parsis get down of our high horse, the better off we’ll be.
Meher Daruwala 16 December 2009 at 11:44 pm #
I cannot believe this nonsense article. The Parsis settled in India,
have adopted Indian ways and they differentiate between people.
I don’t think he is educated and enlightened enough to know about
Indian History and it’s civilization. He should go back to where his
ancestors came from.
Ronnie Patel 17 December 2009 at 8:59 pm #
Dear Meher,
Thanks a lot for your comments,
I would like to let you know that brfore the Aryans moved from the
South Pole, India was already the Establhish civilized country.
If you do not know that i would kindly inform you to go through the
Histroy of World there you woud find that the best cities at that time
were Harrappa & Mohonjo Daro which were in India,
Even i am Aryan,so please do accept the fact.
Thanks.
Jai Hind.
Ronnie
Siloo Kapadia 17 December 2009 at 11:33 pm #
Firoze-jee:
I agree with what you have written. Yes, the community is going down.
We all know it. The BPP knows it. The youth know it.
However, I just want to state that it is not only Parsi girls that are
marrying outside of the community. Parsi boys are doing likewise.
Partly because of a lack of suitable partners. Partly because that is
the norm.
Yes, our glory days are long-gone. The hogwash of us being “Persian”
is just that, hogwash. We are no more Persian than any other Indian,
other than the fact a FEW of our ancestors came from that part of the
world.
Firoze Hirjikaka 18 December 2009 at 7:59 am #
Ronnie,
“the Aryans moved from the South Pole,”? Since the South Pole has been
virtually inhabitable since the dawn of civilization, I’d be
fascinated to know what history book you’re reading. Maybe the same
one that informed you about the Parsees’ “great civilization.
farzana 19 December 2009 at 10:14 am #
Oh!! I see…”Aryans moved from the South Pole, India was already the
Establhish civilized country.”… we are getting to learn something new
everyday!! Thank you Mr. Ronnie…where did you get this precious piece
of information from??
And while you are at it pluuueeesssse share with us the map of the
‘established civilized country’ -India, as it was 3,000 years ago!!
Thank you.
Ps. and and and the name India was known to the world then. if its
not too much:)
Sorry for the taqleef and shukriya in advance
farzana 19 December 2009 at 11:09 am #
“We are no more Persian than any other Indian, other than the fact a
FEW of our ancestors came from that part of the world.”
True Silloo, i agree with you completely.
Do you know where does the word- ‘Parsi’ comes from?
Sanskrit word for close relatives/neighbors is ‘pars’.
Hindi word is ‘pas’.
Vedas refer to aryan parsi tribes living in Uttarapatha [northern
Indian territories stretching from kashmir- punjab to kamboj-kabul ]
as Parsu [close relatives].
Some of these Parsu tribes moved to Elam/ Iran and established Persian
empire which in turn encompassed number of Indian territories
including Punjab,Sindh, Western Gujarat, Baluchisatan besides present
day Afghanistan which was once Zoroastrian strong hold.
So its not as if Parsis are foreign to subcontinent , particularly to
India and Indians…We should quit behaving like quitters from Iran…
India belongs to us as much as any other Indian since the Vedic
times.
Are you reading this Mr. Ronnie?
Ronnie Patel 19 December 2009 at 8:47 pm #
Dear Firoze,
I have being saying the same that you had just written about, The
youths of the Parsees are nowadays joblesshave you cared to find out
the main reasons behind it, if you have not then i would like to
inform you that the main reason is that our young yoths are not
intrested in studying hard & they just want become Romeos over night.
where as on the other hand our young girls are getting highly
qualified degrees & that is the biggest & main reasons that our girls
are marrying outside the community.
Hope that those youngsters wake up from their deep slumber or else all
that the Pnchayat has would be gone into the hands of the Goernment
which is just waiting lay its dirty hands on all that belongs to the
Parsee Panchayat.
My Adivse to all youth that please do study as the young girls of our
community are studying than only we would be able to be called a
civilized.
Jai Hind.
Ronnie Patel.
RELIGIOUS FREEDOM 20 December 2009 at 3:21 am #
DEAR FIROZE , RONNIE & OTHER READERS ,
WELL REGARDING THE SOUTH POLE COMMENT.
GENE FREQUENCY MEANT ON AN AVERAGE OCCURANCE ( COMMONLY FOUND GENE) OR
IN OTHER WORDS A PARTICULAR GENE DESITY AMONG A GROUP OF PEOPLE OR
REGION.
THIS WIKIPEDIA ARTICLE ALSO SAID THAT THIS GENE M198 – WHICH EXIST
WITH HIGH DENSITY THROUGHOUT “SOUTHERN IRAN COAST & CENTRAL IRAN EXIST
IN EQUAL MEASURE ACROSS PEOPLE OF BALOUCHISTAN , SIND , RAJASTHAN , &
GUJRAT , THOUGH THIS GENE DENSITY REDUCES FROM SOUTH GUJRAT , NORTH
RAJASTAN & PUNJAB & GRADUALLY DISAPPEARS BY THE KARNATAKA BORDER
( SOUTHERN MAH.) , THROUGH SMALL TRIBAL COMM. & CASTE COMM. DO EXHIBIT
SIMIAR GENES PATTERN IN POCKETS OF INDIA.
THIS GENE GOES WEAK TOWARDS NORTH IRAN ( THERAN & SURROND AREAS ) –
INFLUENCE OF MIDDLE-EAST , TURKISH & IRANS ORIGINAL GENES.
PARSIS MIGRATED FROM KHORASTAN , IT MEANS FROM CENTRAL ASIA CARRYING
SAME M198 GENES & SOME FROM SOUTHERN IRAN.
IT IS STATED THAT KHORASTANI & CENTRAL ASIA’S ZORASTRIANS ( BUKHARA )
HAD MANY FIRE – TEMPLE , & BACK THEN ;-
SOURCE :- WIKIPEDIA
Despite these economic and social incentives to convert,
Zoroastrianism remained strong in some regions, particularly in those
furthest away from the Caliphate capital at Baghdad. In Bukhara (in
present-day Uzbekistan), resistance to Islam required the 9th century
Arab commander Qutaiba to convert his province four times. The first
three times the citizens reverted to their old religion. Finally, the
governor made their religion “difficult for them in every way”, turned
the local fire temple into a mosque, and encouraged the local
population to attend Friday prayers by paying each attendee two
dirhams.[8] The cities where Arab governors resided were particularly
vulnerable to such pressures, and in these cases the Zoroastrians were
left with no choice but to either conform or to migrate to regions
that had a more amicable administration.[8]
Among these migrations were those to cities in (or on the margins of)
the great salt deserts, in particular to Yazd and Kerman, which remain
centers of Iranian Zoroastrianism to this day. Yazd became the seat of
the Iranian high priests during Mongol Il-Khanate rule, when the “best
hope for survival [for a non-Muslim] was to be inconspicuous.”[12]
Crucial to the present-day survival of Zoroastrianism was a migration
from the northeastern Iranian town of “Sanjan in south-western
Khorasan”,[13] to Gujarat, in western India. The descendants of that
group are today known as the ‘Parsis’ – “as the Gujaratis, from long
tradition, called anyone from Iran”[13] – and who today represent the
larger of the two groups of Zoroastrians.
HOPE THIS REDUCES TO HALF THE DISPUTE OF HOW IRAN & INDIA ANCHESTORS
WERE COMMON ( MAINLY OF THE REGIONS I MENTIONED ) , BARRING A FEW
OTHER DISTINCT IRANIAN GENES FROM INDIAN , M198 IS JUST ONE GENE
MENTIONED THERE ARE STILL A DOZEN GENE COMBINATION WHICH I HAVE NOT
MENTIONED HERE , A PART OF CENTRAL ASIAN ZORASTRIANS ARE NOW PARSIS
( THOUGH I WOULD CALL THEM INDIAN ( GUJRATI GENES AS TESTED AMONG THE
COMMUNITY ) BECAUSE OF GENERATIONS OF GENES LOSS , BECAUSE OF WHICH
SOME DISTINCT INDIAN GENES (FROM FEMALE SIDE) ARE FOUND AMONG PARSIS),
& BACK THEN SOUNTERN & NORTH IRN. ZORASTR. WERE FIERCELY PATRIOTIC TO
THEIR RELIGION , COMPARED TO OTHER PARTS OF IRAN ( PARTIALLY BECASE
BEING AWAY FROM CAPITAL BAGHDAD ) , & IT IS TODAY ONLY IN THIS PART OF
IRAN THAT MAJORITY OF FIRE-TEMPLE, ZORAS. / AVEST. STILL LIVE.
RELIGIOUS FREEDOM 20 December 2009 at 3:37 am #
DEAR FARZ. , RONS. , TO ALL RADERS IN SHORT ,
THERE WAS NO PARSI IRANIAN CIVILIZATION , PARSI WAS A TERM USED IN
INDIA FOR THE OUTSIDERS AS THEY USED TO BE KNOWN BACK THEN , BRITISH
ARE KNOW TO USED THIS TERM FREQUENTLY.
REGARDING SOUTH POLE , ITS A MISTAKE IT SHOULD BE SOUTH AFRICA FROM
WHERE THEY LANDED IN SOUTH INDIA , BUT THEY ARE HARDCORE DRAVIDIANS
NOT ARYANS , ARYANS MIGRATED FROM RUSSIAN STEPPS & SURPRISING A CITY
DATING SOME 3000 B.C.) HAS BEEN FOUND IN TURKMENISTAN & IT SHOWS FIRE
– TEMPLE AS ONLY PLACE OF WORSHIP ( INDIAN & IRANIAN BOTH PRAYED FIRE
THEN ) & CONSUMPTION OF SOMA PLANT AS LIQUOR , PROPHET ZORASTER , WAS
LIKE GAUTAM BUDDHA , PREACHED THE SAME FIRE – WORSHIP ALBEIT WITH SOME
PURITY STANDARDS , & CALLED THE ARYAN GODS AS PART OF GOOD FORCES
( JUST LIKE WHAT THE BUDDHA SAID ABOUT INDIAN GODS) & THE FIGHT
AGAINST EVIL FORCES.
KERSSIE WADIA 20 December 2009 at 4:08 pm #
None can deny that the philanthropy of the Parsees has been
legendary.
However, today the scenario is quite different. Our glory days no more
exist. They are long gone.
The average Parsee youth seems to have lost the drive and ambition to
succeed. Hard work seems to have become a thing of the past.
We are facing a number of problems today. Our numbers are declining
very rapidly.
1.The average number of children a parsi couple has is a dismal 1.
2.Over one-third of Parsees are unmarried.
3.Again over one-third of them marry out of the community.
4.Over 40 % of Parsees are above 65 years of age.
5.While about 1000 parsees die every year, only 150 children are born.
Where are we leading ourselves to ? Our extinction is imminent.
Our so called leaders claiming “scholarship” over the religion and the
community, seem to be clueless. Except for making untrue statements
like, “we are not decreasing”, “we shall never become extinct” etc.,
no concrete steps are being taken to arrest the declining population.
Is this our civilization ? Is this our culture ?
This is neither “civilization” nor “culture”. For how long will we
Parsees continue to bask in the past glory and refuse to accept and
solve the problems that we are facing today ?
And….about the terrible state our Dokhmas. THE system of Dokhmenashini
has failed completely. No body is against the system of Dokhmenashini
if it is functional. Today the bodies our our dear departed lie
rotting and stinking in the Dokhmas. Is this Dokhmenashini ? Don’t we
need to alter / change the system so that a dignified disposal takes
place ? Is it too much to expect from our so called leaders who claim
“scholarship” over the religion to provide us with proper
alternatives ? Is this our “civilization” ? Is this our “culture” ?
With hope that better sense prevails…
Kerssie Wadia
Voice of Reason. 20 December 2009 at 9:05 pm #
Very true Kerssie, we are indeed heading for extinction of the
Community but the blame for the same is exclusively on the short
sighted electorate who exercised their voting rights based on the food
served by each prospective candidate rather than on the merits and
qualifications of the candidates. Community gets the ‘government’ they
deserve. To expect moral integrity from self styled Scholars is just
expecting too much.
Anti-Dhongidox. 20 December 2009 at 11:31 pm #
Kerssie Wadia,
I differ with your perception that average Parsi youth has no desire
for hard work. In this country, Reservations have caused frustration
amongst the youths. With 90% marks it is impossible to secure
admissions in Medical or Engineering Colleges. On the other hand our
youngsters try to emulate others who grow up on easy money.Even some
of our community’s netas ‘earn’ thru doles. What encouragement our
community youths receive for higher studies? I wonder why our
Punchayets of Mumbai, Surat and Pune can not reserve some paid seats
in institutes of higher learning for deserving studious youngsters. I
feel the elders alone are to be blamed.
As for your remark about the state of affairs for disposal of mortal
remains, nothing short of a sustained campaign against the
‘Traditionalists’ would free the community from arm twisting coterie
which talks of ‘package deal’ and denying prayer facilities to those
who choose to opt for an efficient disposal. In fact, on reading PTA
edit in Bombay Samachar of 20th inst, should open the eyes of those
who attended and applauded at the Dadar Parsi Gymkhana meet a couple
of months back.
For those who talk about observing the provisions of respective Trust
Deeds, one wonders if Charity Trust like Fire Temples are allowed to
make money by selling
Well Water to water Tankers. There is absolutely no check on number of
tankers filled up by the tanker drivers.
I propose to take up this issue with the Office of Charity
Commissioner since such sale of Well water by Fire temples would not
be in consonance with the provisions of relative Trust Deeds.
piloo. 21 December 2009 at 1:40 pm #
“Where are we leading ourselves to ? Our extinction is imminent.”
Yes, Kersi Wadia, the community elders and akabars are catering to
whims of a few fanatic bigots and those having ingrained qualities of
double standards.Community is indeed heading for self destruction. I
agree with you fully in context of facts and statistics though I feel
conversion is not the solution for increasing our numbers.
As for disposal of mortal remains,what is required is a pioneering
effort to set up a prayer Hall in the City with amenities for 4 days
prayers. Absence of such a infrastructure is the biggest handicap
which is sadistically exploited by the bigots who relish imposing
their cult on all as if they are God sent messengers and divine
interpreters of our Holy Scriptures.
a.rustomjee 21 December 2009 at 4:57 pm #
Piloo and Voice of Reason,
You have expressed the view that majority of Zoros in Bombay hold but
are too scared to utter.Fervent prayer that the Almighty listens to
wishes of thousands and brings relief in form of outcome of
Originating Summons.
farzana 21 December 2009 at 10:12 pm #
Y_A_W_N MR RONNIE or WHOEVER YOU ARE,
migration of HUMAN POPULATION began with the movement of Homo erectus
out of Africa across Eurasia about a MILLION YEARS AGO…
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/02/22/MN5RV6L1C.DTL
Fyi, THIS MIGRATION HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH DRAVIDS OR ARYANS!! THIS
WAS A COLLECTIVE HUMAN MIGRATION? SAMJEY? AND THIS HAPPENED A MILLION
YEARS AGO!!
INDUS VALLEY CIVILIZATION STARTED APPROXIMATELY SIX THOUSAND YEARS
AGO…
ON WESTERN PARTS OF SUBCONTINIENT WHICH ARE NOW MOSTLY IN PAKISTAN.
THIS CIVILIZATION WAS STATED BY ELAMITES/ DRAVIDIANS WHO WERE SPREAD
IN THE AREAS STRETCHING FROM MESOPOTAMIA AND IRAN TO SUBCONTINIENT
WHICH ENCOMPASSED DRAVIDIAN CULTURE ALSO KNOWN AS ELAMITE CULTURE…
BEFORE THE MIGRATION OF ARYANS TOOK PLACE
BTW THE ORIGINAL NAME FOR IRAN WAS ELAM, [YES IN TAMIL 'ELAM' MEANS
'HOMELAND']…
AND ELAMITE WAS AN OFFICIAL LANGUAGE IN PERSIAN EMPIRE.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elamite_language
GOES TO SHOW THAT GEOGRAPHICALLY ‘ELAM’ INCLUDED AREAS OF IRAN TO
WESTERN INDIA AS ONE COUNTRY, BEFORE THE ARYAN MIGRATION TOOK PLACE
APPROXIMATELY 3,000 YEARS AGO FROM CENTRAL ASIA…. THAT STARTED THE
VEDIC PERIOD.
KERSSIE WADIA 22 December 2009 at 10:53 am #
We Parsis have achieved the dubious distinction of working against the
tenets of our own religion.
1. Our religion is based on cleanliness. Yet some of our leaders who
claim “scholarship” over the religion would want the bodies of our
departed rot in the Dokhmas, in the name of the religion !!
2. Our religion tells us to apply our good mind and good mind alone to
any situation in life. Yet some of us vote for our leaders based on
the food served by them, and ignore the truly accomplished candidates
in the process !!
3. Our religion teaches us Manashni, Gavashni, and Kunashni. Yet our
leaders who claim “scholarship” over the religion ban the poor priests
because they pray for those departed who opt for cremation or
burial !!
All this happens because our so called vada dasturjis have miserably
failed to act in a non partisan manner for reasons unknown and
unexplained to the masses. They too seem to have fallen prey to
worldly materialistic thought process having ceased to use their Good
mind.
Is this our ‘civilization’ and ‘culture’ that we brag about so often ?
KERSSIE WADIA
farzana 22 December 2009 at 2:10 pm #
The gist is, 6,000 ago India did not exist as one country as we see it
today geographically.
Certain parts of western india, pakistan and southeast iran formed one
entity that had a common culture namely Elamite. Therefore its
incorrect to contribute INDUS VALLEY CIVILIZATION to India alone… It
is s as much pakistani and as much Iranian parsi as its indian.
If there was no Parsi civilization according to our cut paste
scholars- Mr Ronnie and his other pseudo… ; than Indus valley
civilization is not an Indian civilization either…. Go figure.
Jayant Kulkarni 22 December 2009 at 3:18 pm #
Hi !
The gentleman has stated
“Indians have culture but not civilization. Culture is how we
entertain ourselves; civilization is how we entertain others”
I think he has forgotten that this very culture ( according to him )
has entertained Parsis when they were thrown out of Persia. No where
in this universe you will find culture (according to him) giving
political asylum to any community which landed here to seek it.
I don’t know what to say about this gross inability of this gentleman
at least to thank this CULTURE !
Jayant
farzana 22 December 2009 at 7:11 pm #
Jayant bhau, chill.
The gentleman in question is some Aakar Patel..doesn’t seem to be a
Parsi in the first place…
Secondly the piece is a covert attempt at creating communal wedge
between Hindus and Parsis by some sick minded individual …
and best of all, no Parsi here agrees with him.
Well, and regarding your post, Parsis were not thrown out of Persia.
There has always been Hindu and Buddhist minority living as equals in
Persia [ esp in areas of afghanistan and pakistan] for thousands of
years while it was under Parsi establishment…the same way as Parsi
minority has been living in India.
Tolerance to each other’s beliefs has been mutual.
thank you
Siloo Kapadia 22 December 2009 at 10:15 pm #
It is interesting to know that more members of the community are
interested in the well-being of vultures and the disposal of mortal
remains than they are of propagation of the faith and acceptance of
new believers.
Yes, Piloo, deekree, I agree with you 100%. With “enlightened”
thinking such as what we see, it will be a miracle if the community
will be around in South Asia after 50 years.
Jayant Kulkarni 23 December 2009 at 2:44 pm #
Hi !
I agree with your views. In fact the recent study shows that the Indus
civilization which met with calamity due to drying up of the river
saraswati migrated to Persia and India. Thus the similarities in their
culture. I will post a link to this study at a later stage as I don’t
have it now.
By the way I like Parsis and have studied a lot about the ancient
Persia. I can certainly say that wine was invented in Persia which was
called jehar-e-khush ! ))
Regards,
Jayant
farzana 24 December 2009 at 2:51 pm #
Jayant,
wine was invented by one of our common ancestors – King Yim , the same
dude as Yamraj in Vedas …So goes the story in persian… Anyway who
cares about it being authentic or not as long as we all have a good
excuse to party-sharty and enjoy good things in life…:)
regarding Indus civilization,…unearthed Indus seals depict scenes with
rhinos and elephants amidst plains of wild grass and trees, goes to
show that Saraswati [Herahwati] valley was once a green belt bursting
with nature full of varied life forms…It may have dried up eventually
due to overuse of natural resources and cutting down of forests
mindlessly turning it into Thar desert. It really saddens me to see…
how even today most of us use up our energy in ego fights over silly
past, silly religions, their silly books and their silly authors… when
its more imperative for us to get our priorities right and make united
efforts at preserving whatever remains of nature around us for our own
survival… and survival of our civilization…
farzana 24 December 2009 at 8:06 pm #
very well said, Kersee:)
Mihir 24 December 2009 at 9:49 pm #
btw did u forget to mention … pieces from history of mumbai ?
making of the city was funded by parsi’s too …
#BSE
JJ Hospital ?
but we must not think of AMBANIs as whole of india?
in my opinion it needs a revisit …
Ronnie Patel 25 December 2009 at 11:08 pm #
Dear Farzana,or whatever you may be.
For your kind information India was already a estabhlished country,
but what about Iran, at that time Aryans were unheard about, only it
was when the Aryans felt their homes in Arya Nam Vaijo that we got to
learn about the Aryans & it was first that the Aryans settled in Indus
valley, One group of Aryans sttled down in Iran & the other group
moved to GHermany, it was for this particular reasin that Hitler
accepted Swatika as their Emblem & was proud to be an Aryan.
From where did you get the other story i dont know, but i think that
your History has been made by you only.
Please learn before you write any dammn thing.
Jai Hind.
Ronnie Patel 25 December 2009 at 11:16 pm #
It was a part of My Beautiful India Formerly.
It was the Britishers who are main culprits for dividing the Two Sons
of One Mother & that the name of the Mother is & was & will be known
as Bharatmata for your kind information Farzana.
So, naturally Indus valley was & would be in the future again a part
of my mother Bharatmata.
Jai Hindustan.& not your Pakistan.
farzana 27 December 2009 at 6:45 pm #
“For your kind information India was already a estabhlished country,
but what about Iran, at that time Aryans were unheard about, ”
Dear Mr. Scholar,
Can you show us the Map of India as an establshed country during indus
valley civilization (ie. before the aryan migration took place)?
And the name it was known by?…
no, it was not ‘Bharat’…
Bharat was an ARYAN CLAN named after its leader and ruler, you should
have known this, dear scholarjee!
==> “From where did you get the other story i dont know, but i think
that your History has been made by you only.
Please learn before you write any dammn thing.”
Hmmm who said i know anything… I know nothing, that is why im looking
forward to get answers from you, dear scholar and self style historian
jee
So when will i get to see the map and the name i requested, dear
scholarjeee?
farzana 27 December 2009 at 7:01 pm #
Oh! Wow! we’ll have a Family get together in the future… Mother Bharat
[?] will get united with all her sons… -Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran,
Bangladesh!!
What a profound thought!!
though, I wonder what Mother Bharat will do with appox 2 billion
Muslim grand sons!!
Btw, Mr Bharat, do you usually go to forum like this to entertain
forumers for free?
farzana 27 December 2009 at 9:41 pm #
[Dear moderator, plz delete the above double post sent by me at
11:16pm. Thank you]
Oh! Wow! we’ll be having a family reunion in the future…
Mother Bharat [?] will get united with all her sons… -Pakistan,
Afghanistan, Iran, Bangladesh!!
What a profound thought!!
though, I wonder what Mother Bharat will do with appox 2 billion
Muslim grand sons!!:)
What do you think Mother Bharat should do about her son- Germany?
Should she annex it?
Interesting Phamily!!
Btw, Mr Bharat, do you usually go to forums like this to entertain
forumers for free? just asking:D
Nawazish 31 December 2009 at 11:12 pm #
Hello Everyone,
I must say that this article and it’s following comments got quite
ugly and belligerent quickly. Intrestingly we have covered, genetics,
rationale, dead bodies, condition of the country, Geography, Indian
people, Money, religion, faith, color and a whole bunch of other
relevant matter in this reading.
Please keep in mind, that we are all writing this with an emotional
bent of mind and probably not very logical. We, as individuals,
believe what we must based on common sense, knowlegde (or lack of it),
nurture and experiences. So none of us who have contributed or the
silent ones, are either terribly correct or wrong either.
Here is a suggestion; watch a documentary called ‘Journey of Man’ – A
Genetic Odyessey by Spencer Wells. I’ve seen it and it explains to aa
large extent the movement of mankind from Africa to South America
throo Persia, The Indian subcontinent and so on.
‘Pars -i’ – I sure do like the explanation for the word coming from
sanskrit but here is another one. Give me your thoughts on this.
‘Pars’ coming from the province/region ‘Fars’in Persia and ‘i’ meaning
from that place in india. Eg:Bihar – Bihari, Gujurat -Gujurati. Could
it have meant that the Indians called the foreigners, people from Fars
morphing over to Parsi over the years.
For what it’s worth, land is no mans to keep. So yes, we have to be
grateful for the region of india that has graciously embodied us in
many ways. Secondly, are we actually being racist in determining that
we are superior or better in any miniscule way at all? It’s worth
thinking about.
So everyone is talking and debating about the very roots of the
parsis. Start with religion as it’s called in India, used to be faith
in Persia, or simply a way of life. That has transposed to being veyr
brutal about Parsis vs. Iranis in India. What happened to culture and
civilized behaviour there?
Some shun others and some create dintinct classes, and this is still
within Parsis, let alone the Hindus and others.
In Iran, anyone is allowed in a fire temple but not in India. In Ira,
as suppressed as the public is, it’s ok for a muslim to marry a
zoroastrian but not in India. We have forgotten that we as a race or
creed, come from the same roots. So why Iranis, Parsis, and the
remaining sub-castes?
Are we not all Zarthustis that read the same book, and try to follow a
humble way of life, notably good thoughts, words and deeds? Hey, Try
those to begin with as somehow all differences go away and all you see
is gray. Try being a decent person and in many ways you will relive
the ideology of Zarathustra from a long time ago.
We all have answers to everything it seems, specially evident in this
discussion, but no one asks the right questions.
Cheerio.
Abhijeet Ganguly 7 January 2010 at 1:14 am #
I simply wish the Parsees remain in India as long as India exists.
They are Indians as any other Indian so it’s irrelevant where they
came from.
I am so much fascinated by this community ( maybe because I come from
Jamshedpur).
I feel quite sad everytime I hear talk of the Parsee population
declining.
There is simply no denying the fact that Parsees are the most ethical
of all the communities in India.
Radical moves are required to reverse the declining population and
ensure survival of both the community and the religion.
Vivek G 15 March 2010 at 1:04 pm #
Brilliant article! As an Indian, I am not offended. I actually agree
with the author. In fact, I would argue that Indians neither have
culture nor civilization. There is no country in the world that I am
aware of where people urinate and defecate in the open ( even the so-
called “educated” ones do this in India ). Persians are indeed
cultured as well; it is just that their culture has been repressed by
Arab savagery but by Ahura Mazda’s grace they will rise again soon.
Regards.
http://parsikhabar.net/parsis-have-civilization-other-indians-don%E2%80%99t/
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Archive for 'Heritage'
The last Bhuj Parsi passes away http://parsikhabar.net/the-last-bhuj-parsi-passes-away/
Posted 24 April 2010 | By arzan sam wadia | Categories: Heritage,
History, News | No Comments
Roadaben Sorabji Botwala spent her whole life in Bhuj
Bhuj, the district headquarters of Kutch, which once boasted of a
large population of Parsis is sad at the death last weekend of the
last surviving member of the Zoroastrian community. Seventy-eight year
old Roadaben Sorabji Botwala, who spent her whole life here, and who
also looked [...]
Zoroastrianism: Its Stewardship for all Creation, the Animate and the
Inanimate. http://parsikhabar.net/zoroastrianism-its-stewardship-for-all-creation-the-animate-and-the-inanimate/
Posted 02 April 2010 | By arzan sam wadia | Categories: Culture,
Heritage, History, Prayers, Religion | 30 Comments
Below is the text of presentation by Pervin J. Mistry at the
Parliament of Worlds Religions, Melbourne, December 5th, 2009. This
was circulated by the author via email to a newsgroup. All copyrights
are with the author.
We are the oldest monotheistic religion.
Asho Zarathushtra is our Holy Prophet.
Our Revealed Book is the [...]
On Navroze Parsis Fight For Survival http://parsikhabar.net/on-navroze-parsis-fight-for-survival/
Posted 23 March 2010 | By arzan sam wadia | Categories: Festivities,
Heritage, Issues | 17 Comments
Adil Fatakia literally lives in the past; the 65-year-old bachelor
takes great pride and interest in the rich legacy of his community. In
fact, he can trace his family tree 13 centuries back to when the first
Parsis landed in Sanjan near Nargol – fleeing religious persecution in
Persia, now Iran.
By Tejas Patel, NDTV, Nagrol, [...]
From Persia to Bangalore http://parsikhabar.net/from-persia-to-bangalore/
Posted 22 March 2010 | By arzan sam wadia | Categories: Heritage,
History | No Comments
Dinshaw Cawasji, President of The Bangalore Parsee Zoroastrian Anjuman
narrates the history of Parsees; how they took refuge in a small
coastal town in Gujarat after agreeing to several conditions laid down
by the then Maharaja of Sanjan.
By Sudha Narasimhachar , 18 Mar 2010
In the mid-eighties when I used to travel on Bellary Road [...]
Navroze Recognition by United Nations http://parsikhabar.net/navroze-recognition-by-united-nations/
Posted 04 March 2010 | By arzan sam wadia | Categories: Announcements,
Heritage, News | 1 Comment
The UN has acknowledged the festival of Navroze as a Heritage of
Humanity. The below is an email forwarde by Mickie Sorabjee.
Dear All,
You will be happy to know that finally, after some years of delay,
this news of Navroze being awarded the UNESCO award as an Intangible
Heritage of Humanity has come through officially. [...]
Think value, think vintage
Posted 30 November 2009 | By Shirin Kumaana-Wadia | Categories:
Fashion, Heritage | No Comments
Luxury is now about a different idea, an out-of-the-world experience,
not just products and names…
This week I am in Bombay where, between interviewing the Chief
Minister and an encounter specialist who survived 26/11 (but still has
a bullet lodged in his right elbow), the city helped me remember
something unique about luxury I had discovered [...]
Of An Edwardian India http://parsikhabar.net/think-value-think-vintage/
Posted 30 November 2009 | By arzan sam wadia | Categories: Culture,
Customs, Heritage, India | 1 Comment
When life in a Parsi household was lived at a leisurely pace…
By Silloo Mehta
Indian cities were beautiful a century ago. Bungalows had gardens,
leafy parks were well maintained and flowering trees arboured the
streets. There was an air of space, tranquillity and wellbeing. We
were a joint middle class family, Grandpa the benign patriarch. [...]
The Zorastrian Journey http://parsikhabar.net/the-zorastrian-journey/
Posted 16 October 2009 | By arzan sam wadia | Categories: Heritage,
History | No Comments
The below video is a presentation by ZAGNY and IZA New York.
Hawkers Evicted from around Bhikhabehram Well
http://parsikhabar.net/hawkers-evicted-from-around-bhikhabehram-well/
Posted 10 September 2009 | By arzan sam wadia | Categories: Bombay,
Heritage, Mumbai | 2 Comments
After 30 years, 100 hawkers evicted from Cross Maidan
It was jubilation on Saturday for local residents, who finally
succeeded in ridding the southern tip of Cross Maidan of a major
nuisance
By Manoj R Nair
Demolition crews from the City Collectorate removed over 100 stalls
that had stubbornly resisted all earlier attempts of eviction
For the first time [...]
Parsis fight to keep Sanjan coastline clean
http://parsikhabar.net/parsis-fight-to-keep-sanjan-coastline-clean/
Posted 03 September 2009 | By arzan sam wadia | Categories: Heritage,
News | 3 Comments
Over a thousand years ago, Parsis landed on the shores of Sanjan on
the Gujarat coast, seeking shelter and were welcomed by the local raja
who allowed them to settle on his land. The descendants of these
migrants are now paying back that debt by helping local resP6-2.TIM
environmental pollution on the coastline.
Several city [...]
Religious Adultery and Parsis http://parsikhabar.net/religious-adultery-and-parsis/
Posted 27 August 2009 | By arzan sam wadia | Categories: Current
Affairs, Customs, Heritage, History, Institutions, Issues, Opinion,
Prayers, fire temple | 8 Comments
Ervad Marzban J. Hathiram, a good old friend, editor of
Frashogard.com and the Panthaki at the Jogeshwari Daremehr has written
a hard hitting post on religious adultery.
Marzban writes
My apologies for not updating the blog for the last few weeks since I
was tied up in the Muktad preparations and prayers in our Daremeher at
[...]
The Parsis in Colonies http://parsikhabar.net/the-parsis-in-colonies/
Posted 26 August 2009 | By arzan sam wadia | Categories: Bombay,
Heritage, Mumbai | No Comments
This is a hilarious forward sent to us by dear family friend and
regular Parsi Khabar reader Bakhtavar Mistry.
BE PROUD as After the the British colonies there is only the parsi
colonies on which the sun never sets Because ……………
at 2 am old ladies are chasing stray dogs with sticks,
at 3 am somebody’s [...]
Nargol to host a Parsi Festival http://parsikhabar.net/nargol-to-host-a-parsi-festival/
Posted 20 August 2009 | By arzan sam wadia | Categories: Culture,
Current Affairs, Heritage, History | 4 Comments
Nargol is set to become the first village in the country to host a
Parsi festival. This will be similar to government sponsored annual
fests like Tarnetar fair, Kutch festival and kite festival.
The historic village was developed by first generation immigrant
Parsis who landed on the Arabian Sea coast in Valsad’s Umbergaon
taluka bordering [...]
Sapat Makers: Kerawalla and Company http://parsikhabar.net/sapat-makers-kerawalla-and-company/
Posted 19 August 2009 | By arzan sam wadia | Categories: Culture,
Heritage | No Comments
Somewhere in the noisy lanes of Dhobi Talao stands a picturesque shop;
a little old fashioned, with a small cosy bench, and loads of
memories. The owner is a fourth generation Parsi; but the heavy wooden
name board proclaiming the store’s 1887 roots has been recently
replaced with a new one. “But the character [...]
http://parsikhabar.net/category/heritage/
...and I am Sid harth