Portrait of A Hindu Hoodlum, Dharun Ravi of Rutgers U VIII
http://cogitoergosum.co.cc/2010/09/30/portrait-of-a-hindu-hoodlum-dharun-vir-of-rutgers-u-viii/
Dharun Ravi rutger2
Dharun Ravi Rutgers PHOTO
Posted on September 29th, 2010 in New York by lalate
NEW YORK (LALATE) – Dharun Ravi (photo below) is the Rutgers student
charged with sending a live stream of his gay roommate Tyler Clementi
(aka Tyler Clemente) online via a webcam while Clementi had relations
with his boyfriend. When Dharun Ravi was told by his roommate that he
wanted their dorm room for himself for a few hours so that he could
have relations, Ravi’s reaction was “yeah”.
Ravi soon decided to allegedly become the roommate from hell. Ravi
left behind a webcam connected as he exited the room, claim police. He
ended to another Rutgers room. There he remotely accessed the webcam,
put Tyler online via live streaming video, captured pictures, posted
the pictures, activated a chat room for discussed, and tried to
promote his endeavors via social networking on Twitter, claim police.
Rutgers Pictures: Tyler Clemente Case
Rutgers Photo 1
Rutgers Photo 2
Rutgers Photo 3
What roommate would do such a thing?
After the Ravi was released last Wednesday, Clementi headed to the
George Washington Bridge. At 8:50 pm, Clementi was spotted standing on
the south walk of the bridge; his car, cellphone, and computer were
reportedly close by. New York news is reporting that Tyler Clementi
jumped to his death. His body has yet to be recovered.
Bashing of students by fellow students is dominating our society. In
twenty four hours, LALATE has reported four teen students, as young as
13 and as old as 18, taking their lives this school year because of
ridicule.
CNN’s Anderson Cooper last night addressed the subject. He invited
Andrew Shirvell who defended his “Chris Armstrong Watch”. Chris
Armstrong is a student at the University of Michigan-Ann Arbor campus.
Shirvell is a member of Michigan’s attorney general’s office, and a
person obligated to prosecute wrongful conduct in the State of
Michigan. While Armstrong has been able to brush off Shirvell’s
ridicule, Shirvell took to national news last night to name call
Armstrong.
“I’m a Christian citizen exercising my First Amendment rights. I have
no problem that Chris is homosexual. I have a problem that he’s
advancing a very radical agenda.” When asked if he was bigot, Shirvell
then called Chris Armstrong a “bigot”. “The real bigot here is Chris
Armstrong, I don’t have any hate in my body at all”
For more the Clementi death on LALATE, click here:
http://news.lalate.com/category/new-york/
Groups: Prosecute Rutgers case as hate crime
New Jersey law among strictest in country; federal charges unlikely
Video
Gay rights groups say Rutgers suicide a hate crime
NBC News and news services NBC News and news services
updated 2 hours 18 minutes ago
Some gay rights groups are urging that New Jersey’s hate crime law be
used in the case of the Rutgers student who committed suicide after an
intimate encounter with another student was shown on the Internet.
The state’s hate crime law is among the strictest in the nation, and
it works as most of them do. It’s not an offense charged on its own.
Instead, it’s invoked at sentencing to seek a harsher penalty. The
criminal charges filed so far in the case — invasion of privacy —
would qualify for a hate crime enhancement, say legal experts in the
state.
Technolog: Internet was help — and hell — for Rutgers freshman
According to the Middlesex County prosecutor, New Jersey’s invasion of
privacy statutes make it a crime “to collect or view images depicting
nudity or sexual contact involving another individual without that
person’s consent.” It’s a separate crime to transmit or distribute
those images. The penalty can include a prison term of up to five
years.
If the hate crime enhancement were applied, it would raise the maximum
penalty to 10 years.
Tyler Clementi, 18, jumped off New York City’s George Washington
Bridge into the Hudson River last week. His body was identified on
Thursday after being found in the river a day before.
Most popular Was Rutgers suicide case a hate crime?
Updated 119 minutes ago Outrage on campus after sex-video suicide
Gay rights groups say Rutgers suicide a hate crime
Clementi’s roommate, Dharun Ravi, and fellow Rutgers freshman Molly
Wei, both 18, have been charged with invading Clementi’s privacy.
Prosecutors say that they used a webcam to surreptitiously transmit a
live image of Clementi having sex Sept. 19 and that Ravi tried to
webcast a second encounter on Sept. 21, the day before Clementi’s
suicide.
As for possible federal charges, a Justice Department official says
that’s not likely at this point. The federal hate crime law would not
apply, the official says, because it requires proof of an intent to
cause violence to the victim.
YouTube channel offers hope to gay teens
Steven Goldstein, chairman of New Jersey-based Garden State Equality,
said in a statement that his group considers Clementi’s death a hate
crime.
“We are heartbroken over the tragic loss of a young man who, by all
accounts, was brilliant, talented and kind,” Goldstein said. “And we
are sickened that anyone in our society, such as the students
allegedly responsible for making the surreptitious video, might
consider destroying others’ lives as a sport.”
Former assistant Essex County prosecutor Luanne Peterpaul, who is vice
chairwoman of Garden State Equality, said in order to apply the hate
crime law prosecutors would need to establish that the defendants were
motivated to act because they perceived Clementi as gay. But that can
be hard to prove, she said.
Story: Outrage on campus over student’s suicide after sex is broadcast
online
Gay rights groups say Clementi’s death is the latest example of a long-
standing problem: young people who kill themselves because they’re
bullied about being gay — regardless of whether they are.
In response to Clementi’s death and others, the group Parents,
Families & Friends of Lesbians and Gays said it would issue a “call to
action” on the topic.
Last week, Dan Savage, a columnist at the Seattle weekly newspaper The
Stranger, launched the It Gets Better Project, a YouTube channel where
gay, lesbian and bisexual adults share the turmoil they experienced
when they were younger — and show how their lives have gotten better.
NBC News Justice Correspondent Pete Williams and The Associated Press
contributed to this report
Obama signs hate crimes bill into law
October 28, 2009 7:39 p.m. EDT
President Obama signs the $680 billion defense spending bill that
includes the hate crimes law.
STORY HIGHLIGHTS
Law is attached to $680 billion defense authorization bill
It is named for Matthew Shepard and James Byrd Jr., both killed in
1998
Shepard was gay, Byrd was African-American
Former President Bush had threatened to veto a similar measure
Washington (CNN) — President Obama on Wednesday signed a law that
makes it a federal crime to assault an individual because of his or
her sexual orientation or gender identity.
The expanded federal hate crimes law, hailed by supporters as the
first major federal gay rights legislation, was added to a $680
billion defense authorization bill that Obama signed at a packed White
House ceremony.
The hate crimes measure was named for Matthew Shepard, a gay Wyoming
teenager who died after being kidnapped and severely beaten in October
1998, and James Byrd Jr., an African-American man dragged to death in
Texas the same year.
Shepard’s mother, Judy, was among those at the ceremony that also
included Vice President Joe Biden, Defense Secretary Robert Gates,
Attorney General Eric Holder and leading members of Congress and the
Pentagon, who were on hand for the appropriations bill signing.
To loud applause, Obama hailed the hate crimes measure in the bill as
a step toward change to “help protect our citizens from violence based
on what they look like, who they love, how they pray.”
Video: Obama signs hate crime bill
RELATED TOPICS
Hate Crimes
Military and Defense Policy
Barack Obama
He cited the work of the late Sen. Edward Kennedy of Massachusetts and
others “to make this day possible.”
Later Wednesday, Obama stood with Shepard’s parents and relatives of
Byrd at a separate White House event honoring passage of the expanded
hate crimes law.
Noting reports of 12,000 crimes based on sexual orientation over the
past 10 years, Obama called the bill another step in the continuing
struggle for protecting human rights.
“Because of the efforts of the folks in this room, particularly those
family members standing behind me, the bell rings even louder now,”
Obama said. When he finished his remarks, he hugged the weeping
relatives as the audience applauded.
Several religious groups have expressed concern that a hate crimes law
could be used to criminalize conservative speech relating to subjects
such as abortion or homosexuality. However, Holder has said that any
federal hate-crimes law would be used only to prosecute violent acts
based on bias, not to prosecute speech based on controversial racial
or religious beliefs.
Former President George W. Bush had threatened to veto a similar
measure, but Obama brought a reversal of that policy to the White
House.
When the bill won final congressional approval last week, Human Rights
Campaign president Joe Solmonese called the hate crimes measure “our
nation’s first major piece of civil rights legislation for lesbian,
gay, bisexual and transgender people.”
Earlier this month, Obama told the Human Rights Campaign, the
country’s largest gay rights group, that the nation still needs to
make significant changes to ensure equal rights for gays and lesbians.
“Despite the progress we’ve made, there are still laws to change and
hearts to open,” he said in an address at the group’s annual dinner.
“This fight continues now and I’m here with the simple message: I’m
here with you in that fight.”
Among other things, Obama has called for the repeal of the ban on gays
serving openly in the military — the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy.
He also has urged Congress to repeal the Defense of Marriage Act and
pass the Domestic Partners Benefit and Obligations Act.
The Defense of Marriage Act defines marriage, for federal purposes, as
a legal union between a man and a woman. It allows states to refuse to
recognize same-sex marriages. The Domestic Partners Benefit and
Obligations Act would extend family benefits now available to
heterosexual federal employees to gay and lesbian federal workers.
However, some advocates for stronger rights for the lesbian-gay-
bisexual-transgender community have complained that Obama’s
administration is moving too slowly on his legislative promises.
Opponents of the expanded hate crimes bill challenged the need to
specify one particular community in federal legislation. They
contended that existing federal hate crimes laws were sufficient to
protect the rights of people based on sexual orientation and gender
identity.
More than 77,000 hate-crime incidents were reported by the FBI between
1998 and 2007, or “nearly one hate crime for every hour of every day
over the span of a decade,” Holder told the Senate Judiciary Committee
in June.
At Wednesday’s signing, Obama also praised what he called a bipartisan
effort to start changing the culture of military spending through the
annual appropriations bill. He noted that Gates had worked with
congressional leaders to end what Obama called wasteful projects like
the F-22 fighter bomber and a new presidential helicopter that would
have cost “almost as much as Air Force One.”
“I won’t be flying on that,” the president said.
Noting that cost overruns in military projects total tens of billions
of dollars, Obama called for further “fundamental” reforms in how the
government and Pentagon do business.
“We all know where this kind of waste comes from,” he said, citing
“indefensible” no-bid contracts and special interests pushing unneeded
weapons systems.
Such actions are “inexcusable”, “unconscionable” and an “affront to
the American people” as the nation faces two wars and an economic
recession, Obama said.
“Today I’m pleased to say that we have proved that change is
possible,” he said.
Watch Video:
Added On October 28, 2009
President Obama signed legislation that makes it a federal crime to
assault someone because of sexual orientation.
http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/politics/2009/10/28/obama.signs.hate.crime.bill.cnn.html
Motherlode
Adventure in Parenting
September 30, 2010, 12:22 pm
Suicide and the Internet
By LISA BELKIN
no credit…Published 09-30-2010: Tyler ClementiOnce again, I am
thinking about the parents.
The news that an 18-year-old freshman at Rutgers University committed
suicide after his roommate allegedly broadcast the young man’s sexual
encounter over the Internet, has become one of those stories that all
parents feel personally. Could my child be victimized so easily? Could
my child do something that stupid and cruel?
Tyler Clementi was a violinist. By description he was a quiet student,
not well known by others in his dorm, though hundreds turned out for a
memorial vigil on campus last night. His college career had only just
begun, and I keep putting myself in the shoes of his parents, who had
just dropped their child off for the start of a new adventure, then, a
few weeks later, received word that every parent dreads.
I also keep thinking of the parents of the roommate, Dharun Ravi, who
was probably matched with Celmenti by a random computer program, and
Molly Wei, the classmate charged with helping Mr. Ravi with the prank.
And a prank is what they seem to have thought it was. They would not
be the first to think so. Back when I was in college, a couple of
young men found themselves a video camera, climbed onto a dumpster
outside a dorm window, and taped a friend having sex. Then they showed
the film at a party and everyone laughed — everyone but the girl who
had no idea the the encounter had been filmed. No charges were ever
filed.
Seems the students got their idea from the movie MASH, when a
microphone is placed under a cot, broadcasting a tryst between Frank
Burns and Margaret Houlihan to the entire camp. Everyone laughed then,
too.
But while the idea may not be new, the technology is. You can violate
someone nowadays with the touch of a button and in front of the entire
world. I am betting that Ravi and Wei never thought for a moment that
by outing Clementi on the Internet he would leave a note online saying
he had headed for the George Washington Bridge and that his body would
be found in the Hudson River. After all, it was a joke. Wasn’t it?
And I would guess that Ravi and Wei’s parents are searching through
stored memories, too. Were there other “jokes” over the years that no
one stopped? Was there a tolerance of antigay slurs from time to time?
They are anguished, I am sure. Confused, perhaps, at how their
children could be so stupid. Or maybe they feel like victims of a
wireless world in which every misstep is magnified and cached forever.
In that way, they have an awful lot in common with the Clementis.
Tyler Clementi’s death was announced just as Rutgers kicked off a two-
year, campuswide project to teach the importance of civility, with
special attention to the use and abuse of new technology. Excellent
subject. But it’s one that parent’s should be teaching in the 18 years
before their children even get to campus.
“It’s only funny until someone loses an eye,” the saying goes.
No, it isn’t funny in the first place.
.85 Readers’ Comments
1.alw tucsonSeptember 30th, 201012:58 pm
This story is so incredibly heartbreaking. As a parent I can not
imagine being in the shoes of any of the parents involved.
The insensitivity of some people is amazing. I can not understand how
this could have been thought of as a joke. Even thinking about myself
as a college student I still don’t think back then I would have found
it amusing.
I am teaching my daughters to treat others how they would like to be
treated, & I sure hope they remember that lesson. If they were on the
other side of the lens I can only hope that they would be strong
enough to pull themselves through it.
Recommended by 13 Readers Report as Inappropriate
.2.EKA HoustonSeptember 30th, 201012:58 pm
Was what Ravi and Wei did cruel, insensitive, a violation of privacy?
Yes. Does it deserve 5 years in prison or any prison time at all? No
I just do not believe that incident alone led to this young man’s
suicide. I also don’t believe it came out of no where for his
parent’s. Having had 2 friends who committed suicide it never comes
out of nowhere for anyone that is paying the least bit of attention.
It is tragic that paths aligned for this to happen. What if… what if
he had a more tolerant roomate, or one less adept with technology or…
or… with that said one future has been ruined. There is nothing to be
gained from ruining 2 more over what was obviously intended to be a
prank.
Recommended by 16 Readers
.3.J. Gravelle Milwaukee, WISeptember 30th, 201012:58 pm
Dharun Ravi and Molly Wei ARE guilty of a hate crime, no matter how
you look at it. But they probably won’t be charged with one:
http://gravelle.us…
Congratulations, lawmakers. Once again, you’ve made a tragic situation
even worse…
-jjg
Recommended by 9 Readers
.4.A. BrooklynSeptember 30th, 201012:58 pm
Thank you for your comments, I’ve been thinking of all those involved
and touched by this and all I can feel is tragedy. Such a loss.
Recommended by 2 Readers
.5.K. Mayer
Middle Class ConnecticutSeptember 30th, 201012:58 pm
Hearts are breaking everywhere, for any one who’s been abused and
bullied on and off cyberspace. Shame on bystanders who tuned in, but
did nothing.
http://returntoworkmom.blogspot.com/
Recommended by 8 Readers
.6.Benji UKSeptember 30th, 20101:07 pm
It is easy to vilify, and they weren’t to know he would kill himself,
but you are at least giving Ravi and Wei the benefit of the doubt.
From the messages Clementi left on other sites, it’s clear his
perception was that they were being outright homophobic. Furthermore,
reports of the messages left on the live broadcast (over iChat)
suggest they are acutely homophobic in nature.
This is more than an “ordinary” tease, as with the video recordings of
straight couples you mention, because it invited homophobic elements
of the campus to express their disgust. There is a question as to
whether this was intentional, but Clementi appears to have thought so,
and there is such clear and obvious inevitability that this would
invite a scree of gay hating that it is hard to see the act as
anything other than a severe, malign and tragic case of outright
homophobic bullying.
Recommended by 42 Readers
.7.In Awe San Francisco, CASeptember 30th, 20101:15 pm
This is so incredibly sad. I can only hope that Tyler rests in peace
and that his parents will someday find peace with this whole mess.
As far as pranks…this is was not a prank in any way. This was not
harmless and Ravi and Wei knew that (they are 18, obviously
intelligent, of course they knew). How would they have liked it if it
happened to them? They need to be punished to the fullest extent of
the law…and then some.
As for Ravi’s and Wei’s parents…I am really trying to feel for them
but am having a hard time doing so. Maybe because I just feel so angry
that Tyler, a promising young musician with everything to live for,
was victimized by these two.
Sad, sad, sad.
Recommended by 28 Readers
.8.lisette
ncSeptember 30th, 20101:15 pm
My heart goes out to those parents. I can only imagine the shattering
grief they are feeling.
I am giving my kids the talk on NEVER NEVER NEVER do, or say, or even
whisper, anything you don’t want broadcast to the whole world, because
the whole world now carries a webcam in their cell phone. There are no
private moments anymore, there never again will be any. Oddly enough,
our insistence on pseudo-intimacy with everyone (c’mon, all those
people on facebook are not really your “friends”) has destroyed the
possibility and the safety of any real intimacy with anyone.
Recommended by 21 Readers
.9.momof2
SeattleSeptember 30th, 20101:20 pm
If interested, people can email the president of Rutgers directly and
tell him what you think at ***@rutgers.edu.
Recommended by 5 Readers
.10.T
New York, NYSeptember 30th, 20102:46 pm
Technology is definitely muddling the lines between what is acceptable
social behavior and what is not. People can do or say anything they
want under the disguise of a screen name (i.e. this post) and not
encounter consequences the way one might have 10 or 15 years ago. Even
doing something as simple as having lunch with a friend has become a
chore, when they’d rather text someone else than talk to the person
right in front of them.
I just finished college, and I don’t have kids, but I notice what is
happening to my generation that so many of them simply don’t – we
don’t know how to interact with, or treat, people any more.
Recommended by 8 Readers
.11.miami lawyer mama
Miami, FLSeptember 30th, 20102:46 pm
This is simply heartbreaking. Upon reading the news, I imagined myself
in the place of Tyler’s parents. If I were his mother I would agonize
over that last facebook status, wondering if anyone saw it, if I had
seen it, if he could have been reached before it was too late. I cry
as I write this and as I read each article about this sad sad sad
story. My deepest condolences to his family.
As for the thoughtless, heartless, roommate, who knowingly exposed
Tyler to ridicule and derision, I have no sympathy. I leave judgment
to the courts, for both him and his girlfriend, who may not have taken
any role in Ravi’s act, based on the limited information available.
Recommended by 6 Readers
.12.obidos SomewhereSeptember 30th, 20102:49 pm
This Motherlode post repeatedly minimizes and trivializes the crime
these two adults appear to have committed. No, it wasn’t “stupid,”
and, no, it wasn’t a “prank” or a “joke.”
It was a premeditated, long-planned, calculated act of sadism. It was
evil.
It was also a hate crime against a gay man.
Many have said, “Oh, they probably would’ve done the same thing with a
heterosexual incident.” Possibly — and unless it emerges that they’d
done so in the past, we’ll never know — but if the encounter had been
heterosexual, it would’ve played out very differently in the culture,
the perpetrators would’ve known very well about that difference in
advance, and therefore the act would’ve been committed with a
different intent.
If it had been a straight encounter, the intended victim most likely
would’ve been the woman, and it would’ve likely constituted a hate
crime against women. The man in the encounter would’ve had his privacy
invaded, yes, but he typically would’ve been slapped on the back and
congratulated.
The infamous “Junior/Senior” night incident Ms Belkin recalls from her
college days was similarly a hate crime against women. Most people on
campus were unwilling to recognize it as such at the time, and Ms.
Belkin still doesn’t seem to have “gotten” it.
Last, this latest incident was a predatory crime that preyed on
someone perceived as vulnerable — in this case because the person was
reportedly shy and socially inhibited.
It *might* even have been a hate crime against “nerds” — i.e.,
students whose intelligence, academic abilities and/or talents are
strong, but whose social skills are weak — but based on what’s been
reported so far I don’t think we can distinguish whether it was an act
of hate toward a group, or merely the primitive and ugly part of human
nature that can’t resist the impulse to prey on the weak.
Please let’s not trivialize the sadism and evil involved in
cyberbullying. Phoebe Prince, Megan Meier, several other gay suicides
in the past few weeks — these incidents are piling up so fast it’s
becoming difficult to keep up. Minimizing the nature of the act only
plays into the hands of the perpetrators and makes their lawyers’ jobs
too easy.
Recommended by 70 Readers
.13.Sue AtlantaSeptember 30th, 20102:49 pm
Use the correct word: This was not a ‘prank.’ This was a grotesque
invasion of privacy. Why exempt the perps from punishment when every
one else is subject to ‘ignorance of the law is no excuse’? They
deserve some prison time.
Do any of their defenders think that their act would have been just
fine if they had targeted a strong, stable heterosexual student? Wrong
is wrong. Would that their parents had taught them as much.
Recommended by 36 Readers
.14.Tish Houston, TXSeptember 30th, 20102:49 pm
I had just read the article about the young man jumping from the
bridge. Tragic in every way imaginable. As a teacher, I just dealt
with a young man who confided in me that he was being bullied by
another student. It struck a cord in me and just made me want to
snatch up the bully and shake him. This is a week after an 8th grader
committed suicide in our district because of bullying. Here I was
dealing with 4th graders. When you are raising the bully I do believe
you need to understand the severity of your child’s actions. It’s no
longer that “good ole boy fun” that people try to relate to. No, this
is down right mean and hateful torment of other children. Talk to your
children! Spare not the rod…if you love them you won’t.
Recommended by 8 Readers
.15.Lindsey Williamsburg, VASeptember 30th, 20102:49 pm
Let’s take the opportunity in this tragedy to use the internet for
good:
http://www.youtube.com…
I think we don’t realize, in an increasingly gay-accepting society,
how hard it still is for GLBT youth.
Recommended by 9 Readers
.16.Andrea
MexicoSeptember 30th, 20102:49 pm
This comes after a string of recent suicides by teenagers as a result
of anti-gay bullying. Columnist Dan Savage has recently begun a
YouTube campaign called It Gets Better (reported both in his own
column and here in the NYTimes), asking adults who were the victims of
anti-gay bullying in middle school and high school to upload videos
talking about the fact that it does, indeed, get better. Too little,
too late for Tyler Clementi (and it doesn’t even touch on the invasion
of privacy issues), but hopefully it can help some kids…
Recommended by 17 Readers
.17.LK Houston, TXSeptember 30th, 20102:50 pm
From a legal perspective (sorry I’m an attorney) it seems like an
awfully big logical leap from the note Clementi left to the assumption
that his suicide was the direct result of the actions of Ravi and Wei.
Clementi never said that in his suicide “note” and as another poster
said, it’s very unlikely that this one incident drove him to suicide.
What is far more likely is that he was already a very troubled young
man and at worst, this was the straw that broke the camel’s back. If
it hadn’t been this it would have been something else.
That said, it does not make what Ravi and Wei did ok. Quite to the
contrary it was cruel and immature. However, before we ruin two more
lives and send them to jail, stop and think about all the dumb things
you did in college. Although I never did anything hurtful to others, I
certainly did stuff that was technically illegal (underage drinking
anyone?) and which certainly could have gotten me sent to jail. My
husband and I have talked many times about how horrible it would have
been to be young and stupid in the age of the cell phone camera. For
the record, I was an A student who never once got in trouble either
with the law or the university but I am not going to be arrogant
enough to say I never did anything I regret.
Further, the accusation that this was a hate crime is far fetched at
best. Ravi’s comment that his roommate was “making out with a dude”
was simply an observation of what was occurring and the article says
that Mr. Clementi’s facebook post was a “favorite quote.” As for an
invasion of privacy, given that it was a shared room and Mr. Clementi
probably knew of Ravi’s webcam, it’s going to be awfully hard for the
prosecution to argue that Mr. Clementi had any expectation of privacy.
How any of this adds up to a hate crime is beyond me. Immature,
hurtful and stupid definitely. Criminal no.
Recommended by 17 Readers
.18.DVS Seattle, WASeptember 30th, 20102:50 pm
Absolutely heartbreaking – in addition to hopefully doing all that we
can to teach our children respect, civility and compassion before they
head off to college, we need to be the parents that our children need
to avoid the devastating loneliness that leads someone to commit
suicide when victimized in this way.
We need to be the safe haven for our children (including our gay
children) so that they know they have somewhere to turn when treated
horribly by others.
Recommended by 2 Readers
.19.DH Boston, MASeptember 30th, 20102:50 pm
I think that, alongside their project teaching civility, Rutgers and
other colleges need to have a project to discourage and punish
pranksters. The two seem to go hand in hand anyway, but some kids
really need a serious deterrent from playing pranks, and I’m afraid a
mere lecture on civility won’t do it. Especially with technology
magnifying the effect and audience of pranks, this issue needs to be
taken seriously and punished just like any other civil misconduct. Not
everybody finds it funny, it can lead to tragic ends, and nobody wants
to be on the receiving end anyway – so why is this stupidity being
allowed and ignored?
Recommended by 2 Readers Report as Inappropriate
.20.Dlmoro PhiladelphiaSeptember 30th, 20102:50 pm
This is what now constitutes a college prank? Sure, I did stupid stuff
to myself and others in college, but never anything that was broadcast
to the entire world. My heart breaks for the Tyler’s parents. As for
the parents of the other two, whether or not those young adults are
charged with the crime, their parents should be sent to some type of
parenting class if they still have kids at home. How can you raise a
child to be so callous and hateful? How can you raise a child that
finds someone else’s pain the source of their amusement?
Recommended by 11 Readers
.21.Sara IowaSeptember 30th, 20102:50 pm
I don’t think this was ever intended to be just a ‘prank’. I hope they
face punishment for their actions, either through our (awful) justice
system, or through the university.
Such a shame. And for what? A few giggles from homophobic jerks that
perpetuate a cycle of abuse and hate in our country. Ravi and Wei’s
parents should be ashamed of their children. I find the two
disgusting, that they could so carelessly degrade and mock another
person.
Recommended by 14 Readers
22.Randy ChicagoSeptember 30th, 20102:50 pm
You have to wonder how this young man was raised to think that the
solution to this was suicide. Parents are so quick to instill SEXCRIME
thoughts in their children. As someone who has gone through being
outed and bullied, I feel for the young man. But suicide? Seriously?
What was he taught by his parents? and I don’t blame the two
pranksters. Because that is what it was. A prank. Not a hate crime.
Recommended by 7 Readers
23.Bernadette
Austin, TX September 30th, 20102:51 pm
We give these kids the amazing tool that is the internet and then we
don’t give them any instructions on how to use it. It’d be like
putting a teenager in the driver’s seat of an 18 wheeler and then
putting them out on the highway. We’ve got to teach them how to drive
and not just assume they know the rules of the road. This is indeed a
terrible tragedy but I don’t really think the 18 year olds are to
blame. Sure, they might have known better but I truly believe at that
age, they couldn’t have any idea of the magnitude of their airing of
that video. It’s a concept that is somewhat unfathomable to a child
that young.
http://www.slowfamilyliving.com
http://www.bernadettenoll.wordpress.com
Recommended by 5
.24.Nicole Alabama September 30th, 2010
2:51 pmThank you for your thoughful comments on the other victims of
this tragedy.
No, it wasn’t a prank. Even if the young gentleman hadn’t killed
himself, it wouldn’t be a prank. Calling it a “prank” is just hiding
the truth: it was an act deliberately committed with the intent to
cause harm to another.
Recommended by 18 Readers
25.Jennifer
Anywhere
September 30th, 2010 2:51 pm
Do they deserve jail time? Yes, I think so. Imagine that someone
sneaked a camera into your bedroom, videotaped your private moments,
and then sent out an email so everyone and anyone could view it on the
internet. Would you think it was a “joke”?
The fact that this young man was, by all accounts, in the closet,
makes it much, much worse.
They are not guilty of murder, but they are certainly guilty of a
gross invasion of privacy.
26.VHUSASeptember 30th, 20102:51 pm
Yes, parents need to teach their children about the use and abuse of
new technology. Parents also need to teach themselves to be accepting
of the possibility that their child might be gay. Apparently,
Clementi’s parents did not know that he was. Did Clementi kill himself
partly out of fear and shame of their finding out? Sad story all
around. My heart goes out to the family.
Recommended by 8 Readers
27.CloudSan Diego, CASeptember 30th, 20102:51 pm
Anonymous #8- by that advice, I’d never have sex with my husband
again, because I certainly don’t want that broadcast over the
internet. We should be able to expect privacy in our own bedrooms.
What a tragic event.
I hope to raise children who would never do something so cruel. But I
guess I have to accept as well that it is not all in my hands. My
heart hurts for all of the parents involved, but especially for the
parents of Mr. Clementi.
http://wandsci.blogspot.com
Recommended by 8 Readers
28.AnonymousNew YorkSeptember 30th, 20102:51 pm
Kids don’t think about consequences, they just think about what’s cool
and funny. Because parents don’t have time to teach them, to make it
worse, no one allows to punish or discipline kids any more. So how can
we tell our kids they are not watching the right programs on the TV or
Internet and stop doing stupid stuff? Make an example by throwing the
2 pranksters off GWB, Maybe…….
Recommended by 0 Readers
29.JenSan FranciscoSeptember 30th, 20102:51 pm
#2, EKA, how can excuse the two kid’s behavior by “what ifs?” Granted,
this young man was obviously troubled, but no one, NO ONE deserves to
be treated as he was. Ravi and Wei’s actions were done with malice and
forethought (after the first recording episode). It is not a prank
when you continue to harrass and malign. What if’s won’t fix what they
did or bring him back. He still killed himself, and they were a
contributing factor.
There is a difference between pulling a prank and harrassing someone.
A prank is something you pull on a friend, whom you know will take it
well (like spiking their drink with salt). Harrassment is done with
malice to someone you don’t like, which is clearly what these two were
doing. They deserve to have the book thrown at them.
Recommended by 18 Readers
30.MichChicagoSeptember 30th, 20102:52 pm
It’s a nice thought Anonymous, but you’re basically telling your kids
they can never have an intimate moment, ever, in their entire life.
That in and of itself flies against the right to privacy that we
supposedly hold dear in society.
These fights are not over. This wasn’t a case of “gee, we thought
everyone wanted a sex tape out there” this was clearly to mock, not
simply embarass, but denigrate the students involved.
Will the receive jail? Probably not and maybe it isn’t warranted.
Perhaps they should receive expulsion, or community service though.
Some kind of consequence needs to follow these actions, or they will
continue to do this type of thing in varying degrees again & again.
And simply because someone might not die next time, does not make
their behavior less abhorrent.
Recommended by 4 Readers
31.genmedNew YorkSeptember 30th, 20102:52 pm
You baby-boomers really do think you are the most important people in
this country. This is a story about the tragic loss of life of a young
man in his prime, and we shouldn’t be empathizing with the parents of
the two bullies. Instead of saying how horrible this story is, you
turn the story on to yourselves– “did I do enough to make sure my kids
aren’t bullies? how must their parents feel?” Stop it and let the
younger generation grow up already and start taking responsibility for
themseves.
Recommended by 17 Readers
32.SusanEastern WASeptember 30th, 20102:53 pm
I read this shattering story this morning, and I am at a loss how
anyone could do this so casually and callously. It defies all reason
or civility. And how can one ever do penance for such a thing?
For Tyler’s parents, my heart pours out to you. I don’t have any idea
how you are going to deal with this most terrible of family disasters,
the loss of such a precious and promising young son. But if there is
any way I and others can help with whatever you find to do to get
yourselves through, please let us know, perhaps through this space.
I can’t get “I’ll Never Fall in Love Again” out of my head. And I will
never hear that lighthearted song the same way again. Tyler will never
fall in love again, and it’s a tragedy.
I hope many, many parents, counselors, teachers, and schools use this
case as an example of how powerful and dangerous new technology can
be. Once something is out there in cyberspace, you can never take it
back. Never.
I want to reach out to all my son’s friends from his first year at
college. I realize how lucky we are that he had the good fortune to
fall in with a kind, compassionate crowd. I feel like this incident is
going to change many lives, and I hope most are for the better.
Recommended by 7 Readers
33.lauranyt99nycSeptember 30th, 20103:57 pm
Here’s what I don’t get. There were more than 48 hours (I think)
between the first incident (videochat, twitter, etc.) and the second
attempted video/twitter that said it’s happening again. And in between
it seems that Tyler was reaching out for help. Obviously MANY people –
students, RAs, Rutgers staff, friends – knew what was happening. Why
didn’t someone act proactively and reach out to Tyler to support him.
It would have been easy to figure out that that’s what he needed –
some help, some support and friendship, someone to help him put this
horrible experience in perspective? No one did that, it seems. WHY
NOT? WHAT IS WRONG WITH EVERYONE??
Recommended by 21 Readers
34.Katie S.New York, NYSeptember 30th, 20103:57 pm
I was also deeply saddened when learning the details of this latest
cyber-bullying tragedy. You make a great point – we need to think
about the parents, as bullying in all forms continues to be a very
real concern for families everywhere. In fact, more than 64% of teens
online admit they engage in behavior they wouldn’t want their parents
to know about. Parents today need to be on the look-out for signs
their children are being cyber-bullied, as well as feel equipped to
start a conversation with their kids about how to stay safe online.
There are resources available to help parents with these
conversations. In light of Tyler’s death, Caron Treatment Centers has
compiled information on signs that your kid is being cyber-bullied and
how to keep kids safe online. If you’re interested, please read here:
http://caronchitchat.org….
It’s unfortunate that it took another tragedy to remind us to educate
children about bullying. Hopefully we can work together to prevent
this from ever happening again.
Many thanks,
Katie S., Caron Treatment Centers
@carontreatment
Recommended by 1 Reader
35.HIGHLIGHT (what’s this?) SusanEastern WASeptember 30th, 20103:57 pm
Lisa: This is what I always told my primary students: It’s not funny
unless EVERYONE involved thinks it’s funny. It’s simple but true.
One more thing these guys didn’t learn in kindergarten.
Recommended by 19 Readers
36.HIGHLIGHT (what’s this?) In AweSan Francisco, CASeptember 30th,
20103:58 pm
And what about the other man in the video with Tyler? Is he okay?
Hopefully he can also try and get some justice for this…
Recommended by 17 Readers
37.ajf-tmfBrooklyn, NYSeptember 30th, 20103:58 pm
This so tragic, but calling it a mere prank is letting them off the
hook. A prank is something you do at camp as a kid, like freezing a
bra or throwing water balloons at someone. Filming a sex act and
broadcasting it to your peers is at the very least unusually cruel, I
lean more toward thinking it is criminal. You can say these kids are
just stupid, but they’re not. There are lots of people who do stupid
things who are not also cruel.
www.themotherhoodfile.blogspot.com
Recommended by 15 Readers
38.LululimeSaskatchewan, CanadaSeptember 30th, 20103:58 pm
There should be some kind of consequences for the actions of these two
students. Whether gay or heterosexual, no one deserves to have a
private moment broadcast to the public without their consent, and you
can’t tell me that Tyler shouldn’t have had an expectation of privacy
simply because the act took place in a shared dorm room and he knew
his roommate had the ability to record it.
In British Columbia, a young girl was raped at a rave party and a 16
year old boy not only photographed the act but posted those images on
the internet. http://www.cbc.ca… He is now facing child pornography
charges, and he should be.
Regardless of the intent of either the two college students or this 16
year old youth, the fact is that the damage has been done. Some are
arguing that it doesn’t make sense to ruin two more lives but I would
argue that they brought this upon themselves when they chose their
actions. In both cases, it’s infuriating that we should be expected to
show consideration for the impact any consequences will have on their
futures when they clearly showed no consideration whatsoever for how
their actions would impact their targets.
Everyone makes mistakes in life – some more dire than others – but
mistakes also have consequences. There NEEDS to be consequences.
Recommended by 16 Readers
39.tecumsehquincy, illinoisSeptember 30th, 20103:58 pm
One of the ironies of this case is that the miscreants end up being
hung on their own petard. The vastness and power of the internet which
caused such horror in the soul of Tyler Clementi when he realized his
sex act was floating out in cyberspace (though I doubt few people ever
viewed it or cared) this power has been unleashed a million fold upon
Dharun Ravi and Molly Wei and unfortunately perhaps their families.
They are the ones wearing the scarlet letters and their lives will
forever be altered regardless if any jail time comes their way. In
fact the vast exposure given this case makes jail time more likely.
Recommended by 7 Readers
40.momoftwo1charlotteSeptember 30th, 20103:59 pm
As a parent this incident shakes me to the core. I hope by the time my
kids are old enough to be on their own they understand the
consequences of their actions and realize the hurt they can cause
others. Also, I want them to understand that no matter hopeless they
are feeling there is light at the end of the tunnel and they should
seek help. I feel awful for the parents of all parties concerned –
none would have expected this when they sent their kids off to
college.
Recommended by 4 Readers
41.danachicagoSeptember 30th, 20103:59 pm
At the Catholic school where I teach we have a whole behavior plan
that is called Be Christian, Be Respectful, Be Responsible…and yet, in
the 6th grade, the boys often put their hand on another boys shoulder
and say they are taking their gay temperature. What must that feel
like for a boy who may just be starting to figure himself out and find
he is not just like all the other boys??? Nothing is done about this
even though it has been brought to the attention of the principal
several times. Correct me, but I don’t think that behavior is
Christian, Respectful OR Responsible, I think it’s bullying of the
most subtle, insidious kind. What will that lead to if not
addressed????
Recommended by 11 Readers
42.Little Miss MeEdison, NJSeptember 30th, 20104:00 pm
I was discussing this event with a coworker who made a comment that
Wei and Ravi were just kids playing a prank. Kids? Are they over 18?
My parents impressed on me my whole life that the day I turned 18, I
was an adult. We (as parents and as a society) need to stop coddling
young adults. These two COLLEGE STUDENTS made a conscious decision to
invade Mr. Clementi’s privacy and the privacy of the other young man
involved. And it’s been my experience in life that a “prank” is only
fun if it is a joke among friends and there is no real injury. Here,
Mr. Clementi was seriously wounded by this action which was taken
because his roommate (clearly not a friend) felt – what,
inconvenienced? threatened?
I don’t think there will be any justice served for the Clementi
family. I am so sorry for their loss.
Recommend Recommended by 11 Readers
43.bruceben9wisconsin USASeptember 30th, 20104:21 pm
i could see this criminal act having a degree of depraved
indifference. cyberbullying is something just about everyone in the US
is aware of. especially young college age folks that use the internet.
suicides in these types of instances are not rare. they should have
known that even if a long shot, this type of behavior could possibly
lead to a very bad end. charge them w/ depraved indifference. 10 to 12
yrs.
Recommended by 4 Readers
44.Billie CriswellDelawareSeptember 30th, 20104:22 pm
This is a tragedy of unspeakable measure. It should sadden people on
several levels.
It is clear that there is a marked acceptance toward a homophobic
attitude that these young adults embraced and then exploited to the
detriment of Tyler, who was a talented young man just coming into his
sexuality and in need of privacy. It is an easy argument to say that
the students responsible for streaming the webcam of Tyler could “not
have known” that he would commit suicide, but I have little sympathy
for that argument. For had those two students taken any time to
consider what they would do if someone victimized THEM that way,
perhaps they would have reconsidered their disgusting behavior.
Their act was malicious, and calloused–without thought or regard for
human life. They were adult bullies. It’s not a wonder that our
children are being bullied to death–adults are engaging in the exact
same behavior, and then, their adult peers condone their behavior by
saying that they shouldn’t serve jail time. I personally believe that
they have to make an example of these two students who did this.
They were intolerant of Tyler’s right to be free and unbothered in his
sexuality. They humiliated him to a vast audience. Where has society
failed so badly that adults of just 18 think it’s okay to engage in
such invasive, cruel behavior?
There is a missing link somewhere between the Constitution and society
and it’s tolerance for one another in our freedoms, though, it can be
taught. But you cannot teach it if you don’t believe it. The only
intolerance that I have is for intolerance, and for that reason, I
think these people should be charged with a hate crime. Because Tyler
Clementi was a victim.
Recommended by 5 Readers
45.sipaNYCSeptember 30th, 20104:22 pm
Being ‘only’ 18 years is no excuse. In this country we sent 18 year
olds to war to kill or be killed in faraway countries. We execute 18
year olds if we find their crimes to be so heinous as to be beyond
redemption.
18 is more than old enough to know right from wrong and what these 18
year olds did was so so wrong
Recommended by 11 Readers
46.sql yodamadison, wiSeptember 30th, 20104:31 pm
I guess it was inevitable when that part of the story broke that
people would be focusing on the gay part. That is entirely beside the
point. Two student’s videotaped another in a sexual encounter without
his consent and distributed it.
If someone had taped and distributed your daughter changing in the
mall – talking to EKA and others – the person doing the taping would
still be guilty of a crime with a legal maximum punishment of five
years in prison. The fact that anyone would support leniency for these
two sexual criminals blows my mind.
Of course they deserve five years in prison.
Recommended by 12 Readers
47.LoisSunnyside, QueensSeptember 30th, 20104:39 pm
To In Awe — If everyone thinks its funny, it may STILL NOT BE FUNNY.
Recommended by 6 Readers
48.nee breslinnew mexicoSeptember 30th, 20104:53 pm
Ravi and Wei are vile creatures that should be charged with a hate
crime, period.
Teaching civlity shouldn’t start in college, it should start in the
crib. As should respect for fellow humans and all beings.
What the heck is wrong with parents that don’t teach their kids basic
humanity. If they did teach them, why didn’t it stick.
Vile creatures.
Recommended by 4 Readers
49.MarcLittle Rock, ArSeptember 30th, 20104:53 pm
This issue hits me hard because I’ve dealt with bully and I’ve dealt
with being suicidal. We can no longer tolerate a society that allows
for a teenager to be so ashamed of who he is and so humiliated that he
takes his own life. We all need to do more: http://bipolarrealities.wordpress.com…/
Recommended by 2 Readers
50.VHUSASeptember 30th, 20104:53 pm#36 – you make an excellent point –
what about the other man in the video? How must he be feeling, having
just lost his lover to suicide, and having his sexual experience
broadcast online as well? I hope he one day finds the strength to do
what Clementi could not – fight back and shame all those who took
part, directly or indirectly, in his and Clementi’s victimization. But
if he remains too traumatized to ever do so, no one could blame him.
Recommended by 6 Readers
51.KarenBrooklynSeptember 30th, 20105:28 pm
Bernadette, #23, I have to disagree. Calling an 18 year old who is
ready to begin living on his own “a child” who is too innocent to
understand the implications of his choices is denial, pure and simple.
And blaming it on ignorance of internet etiquette–seriously? This kid
has grown up in a world where Facebook has always existed. He knew how
to turn on his webcam from a different building. He’s hardly a recent
immigrant to the world of the internet. The real problem is that no
one ever taught him how to have respect for his fellow human beings.
In fact, it sounds like someone has been teaching him– whether
explicitly or not– that it is ok to use and disrespect other people
for his own amusement and aggrandizement. He would surely have found a
way to be a gay-bashing bully even without the internet.
Recommended by 12 Readers
52.Nicole K.Santa Rosa, CaliforniaSeptember 30th, 20105:28 pm
There are no harmless pranks because their focus is humiliation of
another person. Hatred of the individual or what they represent is the
stimulus for such pranks. In this case, because he is gay and in the
closet they set out to humiliate him. This is clear and makes it a
crime of hate. Citing the suffering of their families and the fact
that they are at a university is a red herring meant to distract us
from their deed.
Recommended by 5 Readers
53.RebeccaSuburban NJSeptember 30th, 20105:31 pmAfter reading the
posts attributed to Tyler Clementi on a website, it’s tough to align
the tenor of what he wrote with jumping off the GWB. Apparently, he
had been taking steps to hold Ravi responsible, and he was going to
file a room change request. Doesn’t sound like someone desperate or
despondent.
Recommended by 2 Readers
54.Tom NewmanNew Brunswick, New JerseySeptember 30th, 20105:41 pmJust
to be clear- there was not a memorial vigil on campus last night. The
LGBTQ group here at Rutgers held a die-in to get safe spaces for LGBTQ
students (a die-in is a protest in which protesters pretend to be dead
by lying on the ground and covering themselves with signs), and, from
what I could tell, used the heightened public awareness caused by the
recent death of Tyler Clementi as a means of drawing more attention to
themselves. As a Rutgers student who was deeply saddened by the recent
events, I went to the rally in hopes that there would be some evidence
of remembrance for Mr. Clementi, but was instead greatly disturbed by
what appeared to be the manipulation of the young man’s death for
political gains.
There is, however, a memorial scheduled for Friday, in front of Brower
Commons on the College Avenue campus, if anyone is interested in
going.
That being said, I do feel as though this article speaks with a
refreshing amount of compassion. While I am very angry that the
accused would act as they did (if they did – I do not wish to jump to
conclusions), I also pity them for their lack of discretion in the
matter. I have read many discussion groups where people are
bloodthirstily calling for extreme punishment of the accused, and I do
not feel as though this is a good reaction. Rather than responding
with more aggression, I feel as though we should at least be
compassionate in our treatment of the accused, so that they may learn
from their grave wrongdoings. Responding with more aggression only
fuels the ignorance that leads to these tragic occurrences in the
first place. In grieving instead of protesting, and in presenting the
accused with this grief rather than with hatred, we can perhaps allow
there to be some progress made in the matter – for Mr. Clementi’s
death was, after all, evidence of a profound lack of compassion that
exists in our society.
Recommended by 6 Readers
55.redd141Northern New JerseySeptember 30th, 20107:12 pm
Who are you kidding here? Rutgers isn’t a feel good, progressive
school. They dont attract the cream of the intelligent empathetic
crop. Evidentally the bullying, hazing, drinking and lack of tolerance
for anyone other than a hard drinking frat boy was so prevalent the
University was struggling to put in place “safe” programs for students
in groups considered to be fringe groups. By no means was this a prank
or an accident and any way you measure the “excuse” Ravi and Wei
should not only be jailed but considered mentally ill for the cruelty
and harm they caused Tyler. Ihope they are forced to watch their
parents’ agony that this is what their child really is. I bet they
behaved that way all through their Jersey high school years too – the
pattern is all to familiar. What they interfered with was none of
their business. They should get more than five years, and as always,
one can only hope someone will do to them what they have done….one
thousandfold.
Recommended by 5 Readers
56.RichardNew York NYSeptember 30th, 20107:13 pm
Contrary to what some commenters are saying, even if poor Tyler had
other issues, that does not excuse or mitigate what these two morons
did to him. By deliberately injuring him they took the risk of all the
consequences. To my mind Tyler is, tragically, another Matthew
Shepard.
Recommended by 6 Readers
57.Chana Jenny WeisbergJerusalemSeptember 30th, 20107:13 pm
I had turned off my computer for the night, but turned it back on
because I am so deeply upset by this story that I just heard for the
first time on motherlode.
How phenomenally tragic. At the very least, these people should be
thrown out of college. And hopefully there will be significant jail
time as well. How horrifically cruel.
How is it that these bright, young people came to totally lose their
humanity and decency?
www.JewishMom.com
Recommended by 4 Readers
58.MichChicagoSeptember 30th, 20107:13 pm
Prank: setting a roommate’s alarm ahead so they think they’re late for
class. Embarrassing perhaps, but you get over it.
Vicious: Setting a rooommate’s alarm back so they miss an important
exam. Warrants probation at the very least.
Depraved: Taping a roommates sexual exploits and blasting them across
the campus. Warrants expulsion at the very least.
Recommended by 23 Readers
59.JenniferAnywhereSeptember 30th, 20107:13 pm
Mr. Clementi probably knew of Ravi’s webcam, it’s going to be awfully
hard for the prosecution to argue that Mr. Clementi had any
expectation of privacy. How any of this adds up to a hate crime is
beyond me. Immature, hurtful and stupid definitely. Criminal no.+++++++
+++
I’ll admit that I’m not a lawyer, but it seems to me that in your own
bedroom with a door closed you certainly should have an expectation of
privacy. My husband has a camera phone. Does that mean that I have no
expectation of privacy the next time I take a shower?
Recommended by 4 Readers
60.SallyTXSeptember 30th, 20107:14 pmWhat these two did was a crime.
Their intent was to be cruel. I think a crime of this nature does
deserve imprisonment.
They are old enough to be held responsible for their despicable
behavior.
Recommended by 6 Readers
61.HMVAORSeptember 30th, 20107:14 pmHeartbreaking and Sad; this poor
young man was a victim of a crime. There is no joke in something like
this.
I sometimes shudder to think how de-sensitized we have become at the
hands of technology. I wonder how our society will look in another 20
years?
Recommended by 2 Readers
62.CHBrooklynSeptember 30th, 20107:14 pmThere isn’t enough attention
being paid to the fact that this was not only a heartless invasion of
privacy, it was also an outing. Outing gay people has a long and
abusive history and is usually intended to humiliate, shame, censure,
and cause harm to a gay person. Outing has killed before and will kill
again as long as homophobia is tolerated and queer people are treated
as second class citizens.
Recommend Recommended by 8 Readers
63.gbWashington, DCSeptember 30th, 20107:31 pmA prank? Sounds more
like sexual assault to me, digitized. And while there is the extra
(hate) layer because of the genders involved, I would see it that way
either way. There is no excuse to so horrifically invade that most
private event. No, it wasn’t murder, not physically. But what they did
is a kind of sexual assault, to my mind, given the utter lack of
consent. And absolutely a gross violation of privacy.
Recommended by 2 Readers
64.Steve I AmCentennial, ColoradoSeptember 30th, 20107:35 pm
As a former Prosecutor, I have to disagree with LK, (#17). While what
Ravi, and Wei, are alleged to have done was not only immature and
stupid, but it was also a crime. According to news reports I have
read, it is a crime under New Jersey law to videotape a person engaged
in sexual activity, and to broadcast that videotape on the internet,
without that person’s consent. Ravi and Wei should be prosecuted under
those statutes. Regardless of Ravi and Wei’s intent, Tyler Clementi’s
suicide was a foreseeable consequence of their actions, therefore, if
they are convicted, I think the People of the State of New Jersey
would be justified in seeking the maximum – 5 year – sentence against
each of them.
Recommended by 15 Readers
65.AJMidwestOctober 1st, 201010:42 am
As a parent, I am focused less on what those idiots did then what the
reaction to it was. I wouldn ‘t want my children to act in such a
cruel manner obviously but the lesson that I feel more compelled to
impart is that no matter what someone says about you, no matter how
embarrased or humiliated you feel, there is a way through this. Though
some people will do evil, there are many out there who want to help
you and will support you and do good. Seek them out. The evil doers
will hopefully get their punishment but it is more important for you
to realize that nothing that anyone does or say can take away from all
that is fundamentally good about you and if you can’t see that, get
help right away. You will, in the end be able to move on…don’t ever
ever forget that.
Recommended by 1 Reader
66.steveeast coastOctober 1st, 201010:42 am
People have commented on teaching and learning civility. In most
cases, this solves the problem. Occasionally, the law of the jungle
rules. I’m an alumnus of a prototypical 1950s Catskills summer sleep-
away camp. At my camp, bullying and being bullied was a way of life,
but the cycle could be broken by growing a thicker skin and by
informing the offender that what he was doing was wrong. Then again, I
was very confident and big for my age. However, I couldn’t stop the
physical abuse I received from a counselor ten years my senior. A
letter to grandpa, an alumnus of the Bugs and Meyer Mob, brought a
visit from “Uncle Moe” and “Uncle Louie”. The counselor quit his job.
Many years later, I found out they nearly killed him. I would like to
think today’s youngsters don’t live in the jungle. It’s a bad place.
Recommended by 0 Readers
67.KBNY, NYOctober 1st, 201010:43 am
I don’t see how what the roommate and his friend did counts as a hate
crime. Is it a hate crime because they targeted him because he was
gay? I have no doubt the video was sent because he was gay. And this
was definitely a lot more than a prank – this was cruel and heartless.
This was not funny, this was not something anyone would’ve found
amusing. They should be punished for what they did, because they were
certainly accessories to a young man’s death.
At the same time, I am certain that Mr. Ravi and Ms. Wei had no clue
that their actions would lead to Mr. Clementi’s death. I also bet that
this webcam leak, or whatever it specifically was, was the straw that
broke the camel’s back. I am sure other things were going on in his
life, and this just did it. Because I am sure if he were well-
ahjusted, this would not have lead to suicide.
Also, why would Ms. Wei be charged as well? Mr. Ravi sent the video.
Recommended by 0 Readers
68.I’m surrounded by…Somerset Co., NJOctober 1st, 201010:43 amAs folks
have posted, one NEVER knows how one’s actions will be perceived or
taken.
The cavalier attitude toward Tyler by the two perpetrators and the
silent co-conspirators is just catastrophic. It DOES have implications
for our culture and society’s future!
This terrible event (too important to be called an ‘incident’) is an
extreme example of daily insensitivities that we all do/don’t do…not
smiling or saying thank you when someone holds the door, intentionally
averting gaze for no other reason than it’s inconvenient, and so on.
Rudeness on the road, poor turntaking skills (think merge for a major
tunnel entrance), and so on.
And while one never thinks that one’s own kids can do something like
this to another human, it’s surely true that the two perps are from
homes that would likely pass most of our ‘quality tests.’
Yet, here it is nonetheless. Don’t know what the answer is…very
sorrowful.
Recommended by 0 Readers
69.sjmPAOctober 1st, 201010:43 amThere are posts about one life ruined
and lets not ruin two more. Sorry no. The two perpetrators deserve to
have their lives ruined. At the very least, I hope they are expelled
from school and have charges brought against them.
Recommended by 5 Readers
70.jzzy55New EnglandOctober 1st, 201010:43 am
Throw the book at them. If they did the crime, they need to do the
time.
I see far too many “nice” kids who do not nice things getting away
with it because their affluent, connected parents are able to work the
system. In my community a troubled young man (of age to be prosecuted
AS AN ADULT) was vandalizing cars on and off for months, culminating
in a late-night spree involving several DOZEN damaged cars. Is he in
jail? Hell no. He’s at a high-priced rehab-boot-camp place so his
expensive lawyer can make the case in court that he’s done his time
and is a changed kid with a new attitude (we can hope, but unlikely).
This guy is dangerous and needs to do the time he has coming to him. I
don’t want him in the high school with MY kid and his friends, who ARE
nice kids.
The two who committed this felony can and should be charged, tried and
sentenced if found guilty.
And this sure does remind me of the Phoebe Hopkins case, which is also
in my locale. Bullying with intent to harm.
Recommended by 1 Reader
71.S. B.NJOctober 1st, 201010:45 am
“Seems the students got their idea from the movie MASH…”
Hmmm,I doubt that the average 18 year old even knows there was a movie
called MASH. If they know MASH at all, it’s from the TV show, which
may still be showing in reruns on cable.
Some articles have suggested the idea came from a much more recent
source: one of the American Pie movies.
Recommended by 0 Readers
motherlodelisa belkinOctober 1st, 201010:45 am
Right. Today’s teens don’t know MASH. But back when I was in college
the movie (and certainly the TV show) were still fairly recent… and
those are the students I was talking about. American Pie is the latest
incarnation of the same theme..72.Will McClainLos Angeles, CAOctober
1st, 201010:45 amI’m not sure how to comment on this issue.
What happened to Clementi was not only unfortunate it was avoidable.
That being said, the person who had the most power to avoid what
happened was Clementi himself. I don’t want to sound callous and I
don’t believe suicide is something that someone simple “does.”
The two students who recorded and broadcast him aren’t monsters.
They’re 18 year-olds. It would do us all a lot of good to realise
that. We can condemn their decisions, we can go use this story as a
lesson to our friends, family, and neighbors. We can argue that what
they did was criminal. But freshman in college, hell middle-aged
members of society, do incredibly stupid, callous, and thoughtless
things. It doesn’t turn them into monsters. The two of them will never
forget what happened and they’ll probably put more blame on themselves
than we can imagine. Only if they don’t will they become anything
closer to monsters.
We expect a certain amount of civility and a certain amount of reason
from the members of our society, and here it was lacking. But it’s
lacking just about everywhere – internet or no internet. Bedroom
antics and social oddities make headline news, twitter feeds, water-
cooler gossip, and facebook share buttons all the time. Usually
they’re about celebrities, politicians, athletes, and the like. We
expect these individuals to have the hides of a Rhino – if they didn’t
they’d fall apart. Only they do fall apart. Everyone falls apart at a
tipping point.
I want to have written this comment about how horrible these two
students were and how talented this poor student was, but I can’t
bring myself to. Not because I don’t feel for him, his parents, and
the whole community. Only because this could have happened at any
college, any university, any office, any city-block, any anything all
over the Western world. You can decide that just means humanity is
full of monsters. I’m just not ready to make that leap.
Recommend Recommended by 2 Readers 73.Nathan’s MomA Playground Near
YouOctober 1st, 201010:45 amIn response to #17, who writes “As for an
invasion of privacy, given that it was a shared room and Mr. Clementi
probably knew of Ravi’s webcam, it’s going to be awfully hard for the
prosecution to argue that Mr. Clementi had any expectation of
privacy.”
While sharing a dorm room is certainly more intimate than living
alone, there does need to be some reasonable expectation of privacy.
For example, a college student should be able to change clothes,
without fear that her roommate was recording it on a webcam for later
broadcast.
Clementi asked Ravi to leave the room, Ravi agreed, and left.
Essentially, Clementi asked for privacy, and Ravi granted it. By
turning on the webcam without Clementi’s knowledge, Ravi violated that
agreement.
Recommended by 7 Readers
74.AMworldOctober 1st, 201010:46 amStop trying to defend the
indefensible. These two ‘kids’ are directly responsible for Tyler
Clementi’s death. They knew full well what they were doing was an
horrific invasion of privacy. Such people are a blight or a malignant
force whether they’re 18 or 38. Unfortunately they’re never the ones
that commit suicide. How terrible it must have been for that young man
the day he died, how alone he must have felt. I can only hope the ones
responsible get to feel something of that now.
Recommended by 0 Readers
75.LilianaMichiganOctober 1st, 201010:46 am
I cried when I read this story. I cried for the boy who committed
suicide. I cried for the foolish kids who posted the video, I cried
for their parents.
Incredibly unspeakably cruel. Where did this immoral humans grow up- a
sociopathic environment no doubt. May they suffer a thousandfold the
pain they inflicted.
Recommended by 1 Reader
77.Len RIRIOctober 1st, 201011:04 am
Invasion of privacy, death resulting. Criminal endangerment, death
resulting. Reckless endangerment, death resulting. Put the perp on
trial, then properly off to prison.
Let the word go out to all “pranksters” that there are behaviors in a
democratic society that are unacceptable. The emotional torture of
others is one of them.
Recommended by 4 Readers
78.BDNew YorkOctober 1st, 201011:11 amThis entire story is being
driven by latent homophobia. If the film was him with a hot blond it
would be a totally different story. In fact, if he committed suicide
shortly after release of tape of him with a young co-ed people would
say, “at least something good happened for him at the end.”
I applaud Lisa for being brave enough to say that this is something
that happens all the time in dorms. I dont even see how the published
comments were taunting or attacks unless you begin with the premise
that homosexuality is something to hide. Only then in some warped
1980s thinking can you define the published tweets as taunts.
Recommended by 1 Reader
79.AnitanjOctober 1st, 20102:39 pm
Any parents on this planet won’t want their kid’s life to be ruined.
My sympathies to Tyler’s family..
If you are parent, you will understand the misery for Tyler’s parents
as well as Ravi’s and Molly’s parents. Their life has changed for
forever.
My sympathy goes to all of them.
All of us should work towards “damage control”, how this can be
avoided in future? How to teach your kids not to cross boundaries,
which have virtually disappeared due to new technologies? Regarding
Ravi and Molly, I think that they should be punished, but not so much
that we will ruin 2 more lives. That will be equally cruel.
Recommended by 0 Readers
80.imatestcaserural oregonOctober 1st, 20102:39 pm
Voyeurism is a crime.
Invasion of privacy is a crime.
These things are not pranks. They are not jokes. They are crimes.
I hope no one will back away from prosecution because the defendants
have well-off families and were admitted to a prestigious university.
Recommended by 2 Readers
81.WackyDadFairfax, VAOctober 1st, 20102:40 pm
After reading this article, I have to wonder exactly what the
“Intimate moment” was that Ravi captured from the web cam. Sure, if it
involved nudity or sex, broadcasting it over the internet was a
serious sex crime and the 2 should be prosecuted and punished
accordingly. However, if it was just 2 men touching, hugging or
kissing, I don’t think this is too much different from a person that
takes an embarrasing picture of a couple, gay or strait, making out in
a private area and posting it on Facebook. It happens a thousand times
a day and people shrug it off as normal teenage life.
What makes this prank seem like such an act of cruelty has more to do
with the assumption that broadcasting the video was the one, the only
event that was so emotionally damaging to Tyler that he had no better
choice than to commit suicide. Humiliating yes, but no way can this
single incident justify Tyler taking his own life, which in turn, is
much, much more cruel and hateful to not only himself, but his parents
and all who love him than the pranksters who embarrassed him. Suicide
is a very, very bad way to go. Hurts everybody.
Recommend Recommended by 2 Readers 82.Barbara JGermanyOctober 1st,
20102:41 pmSome posters both here and on Room for Debate feel that
Ravi and Wei are not entirely to blame for the suicide because
Clementi probably had “issues” that contributed.
Missing from the discussion is the matter that the students who are
shy and quiet (as Clementi was known to be), who are socially insecure
and with few or no friends, who are most likely to be emotionally
fragile, are among the ones most likely to be targeted for bullying or
humiliation. Clementi might have been the target of bullies in high
school as well; his sense of hopelessness and despair might have been
cumulative. That doesn’t give anyone a free pass to treat him as Ravi
and Wei did. When I was a child, the rule was “go pick on someone your
own size.”
My daughter, after completing primary school in a class blessedly free
of bullying, had her first day of lower secondary (grade 5) in a new
school less than three weeks ago. We went out early to the bus stop,
where a mother and son had already arrived. The boy looked barely old
enough to be in this grade and was so shy he never looked at my
daughter or spoke to her. I talked with the mother and found out he
was going to be in my daughter’s class. I’ll call him Peter here.
Fast forward to the Parents’ Evening this past Wednesday, where we sat
in a circle and met the teachers. One father asked if there was any
adult supervision on the (rather small) play area, because his son
had, twice, been surrounded during recess by a group of much older
boys who closed a circle around him and didn’t let him out. This was
Peter’s dad. The next day I mentioned this to my daughter, without
saying the boy’s name. She guessed that it was Peter, because, she
said, he was the only boy in the class who was shy.
My child would not have the spine (and maybe not the level of empathy
either) to stand up to Peter’s tormentors, and it might be unsafe for
her to do so anyway, but I’m trying to convince her of the importance
of seeking out a teacher immediately if she sees this or something
like it happening again. The homeroom teacher seems to take bullying
seriously, so I hope the problem will be dealt with successfully.
I also sympathize with the parents of all three students involved. The
Room for Debate blog focused mainly on the legal, social, and cultural
issues, so I’m glad, Lisa, that you’re presenting the story from a
parent’s perspective. Some of us are the parents of children who are
bullied or will be in the future; some are parents of the current or
future bullies, and some are parents of the children who might enable
the bullies with their support or silence, or preferably be strong
enough to take a stand against the bullying of their classmates. And
many of us could use some guidance on how to provide guidance to our
kids.
Recommended by 1 Reader
83.SqueakyRatProvidence RIOctober 1st, 20102:42 pm
You’re right it isn’t funny in the first place. Nor is it merely
“stupid.” It’s evil.
Recommended by 1 Reader
84.JJNJOctober 1st, 20102:42 pm
This is a good point, Lisa. I think it is important to consider what
the broader social environment was like for both Clementi and Ravi/Wei
rather than just condemning the latter two as monsters–not just
parents, but in the dorms. Ravi/Wei committed a criminal act and
should be punished for it. What struck me was that the reaction to the
first video/tweet was so positive that they apparently planned
another! Who were these people that expressed sympathy for Ravi for
having to live with a gay guy instead of outrage that he had invaded
his roomate’s privacy? As #33 notes–people knew about this and didn’t
support Clementi–this must have affected him. The article Lisa links
to mentioned that the first incident became a topic of gossip in the
dorms; a subsequent article mentions Clementi’s reaction to this
gossip, which was not supportive of him http://www.nytimes.com…
It seems to me that part of what makes bullying/harassment so awful
for victims is that people don’t take it seriously or support the
victim until after a suicide or some awful outcome–only then are
people “shocked, shocked,” that the bully would do something like that–
before that, it’s just a joke, etc. Where was the shock and horror at
Ravi’s actions the first time around? We need to teach kids not only
to not BE bullies, but to not tolerate bullying when it’s happening to
someone else.
Recommended by 3 Readers 85.
TomRutgersOctober 1st, 20102:43 pm
In response to the LK, the attorney.
It is ridiculous to say that the existence of a webcam in a college
dorm constitutes an unspoken understanding of zero privacy between
roommates. Ravi and Wei captured nude images of a third party without
that party’s consent. This is illegal.
Recommended by 3 Readers
…and I am Sid Harth
Conflict, Hindu Society, History, Hot Off The Presses, Indian society,
News, Views and Reviews, Religious fundamentalism, Terrorism
30/09/2010
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