Whose abuse is it anyway?
Sharad Pawar is not new to verbal abuse. Before Bal Thackeray cosied
up to him in recent times, he was wont to call the Maratha warlord the
most colourful names. Among the more mentionable of them were
`maidyancha pota ’ (a sack of flour) and a dog (I would rather not
repeat the Marathi as that sounds worse).He also continuously poked
fun at Pawar’s ample girth, saying he might be getting stuck in his
commode each morning. To be noted: Thackeray himself preferred Indian
toilets. Hotels he stayed at in Maharashtra had to modify their rooms
for the purpose and when he thought he might be thrown into jail by
Chhagan Bhujbal his primary concern, ahead of other comforts, was if
he would get an Indian toilet in his cell — though Michael Jackson did
use a Western one when he came calling at Matoshree in 1997!
Pawar was so sickened by all such politically irrelevant comments that
he warned Thackeray about the consequences: “I am from the rural areas
and a rural rustic can get more colourful abuse out of his mouth than
someone like Thackeray, city born and bred can ever fathom. So don’t
tempt me.’’ That shut Thackeray up quite adequately because he could
not be sure about how insulting Pawar could get or even if he could
match the latter’s vocabulary, word for word.
I guess Thackeray had reason to run scared. Because he knew Pawar
could say the worst possible things about somebody and still keep the
language parliamentary. Like the time in the Eighties — I recall I
was shocked out of my wits when he referred to then opposition leader
Mrinal Gore as `Pootna Maushi’.
Gore was a well-known socialist and she was very adept at her job as
an opposition leader. She was one of the primary persons who had
exposed Pawar’s alleged involvement in what we then referred to as the
`dereservation scam’. Decoded, this was simply that soon after he
became Chief Minister in 1988, Pawar decided that more than 250 plots
in Bombay which had been reserved for schools, gardens, hospitals and
other public spaces would be, well, dereserved and handed over to
private builders for commercial constructions. Pawar had overruled the
objections of both bureaucrats and municipal authorities about the
advisability of turning Bombay into more of a concrete jungle thus.
Gore tabled the whole list of the plots, along with a minute by minute
account of how they were dereserved, in the Maharashtra Assembly —
leading Chhagan Bhujbal, then the Shiv Sena’s lone legislator in the
House, to stick another unforgettable tag on Pawa: Bhookhandanche
Shrikhand Khalle (he has eaten shrikhand out of plots of land).
But while Pawar could brush aside such labels, what he could not get
over was the complete exposure of his integrity (since then wherever
Pawar goes, land scams, true or not, follow).
Why I believe Pawar’s abuse of Gore was unforgivable was because of
the choice of his words — which were not unparliamentary by themselves
but the circumstances under which they were uttered were downright
vicious. Pootna was the rakshasi who had been assigned by Lord
Krishna’s maternal uncle Kansa to poison the baby God through her
milk. Everyone knows the legend: how Baby Krishna bit her breasts and
destroyed both her and her evil purpose.
Gore had, at the time, been recovering from breast cancer and I
thought it was particularly nasty, downright mean and very hurtful of
Sharad Pawar to allude to a worthy opponent in such unpleasant and
personally painful terms. I was little more than a rookie at the time
and I recall rushing to Gore’s party office at the Vidhan Bhavan soon
after Pawar’s volley – I wanted to sympathise more than get a reaction
out of her to that insult.
However, Gore spoke of everything else but that abuse. And when I
asked her for a reaction, she said she had not heard anything at all
and there was no point reacting to something she did not know about.
Since Gore had very much been present during Pawar’s outburst, I
realised that she was either very hurt or very forgiving. In either
case, her response was very dignified and, in the absence of
television channels in that era, the whole episode was put to rest
almost immediately.
So, if an eon later, Satyavrat Chaturvedi now calls Sharad Pawar
another colourful name, I am not surprised that the Maratha strongman
should not find it too hard to forget and forgive. For Chaturvedi’s
terms of reference were neither personal nor could be too hurtful
(except to the extent that he chose to abuse at all) – those are
terms used almost like punctuation in many North Indian tongues. But
while MCs and BCs might be lingua franca in the North, I agree with
Pawar that it was quite unparliamentary language to have been used at
all.
Perhaps Chaturvedi should have taken lessons from Pawar before he got
abusive: on how to be parliamentary and unpleasant at one and the
same time!
Comments
One Response to “Whose abuse is it anyway?”
Rajen Kaushal says:
March 20, 2010 at 7:10 am
By far, conclusion is that unparliamentary language has no place on
high seats like CM. Thackerays comments are given more weightage by
Media otherwise, going by their political stature, they do not deserve
much weightage.
After exorbitant rise in food prices and sugar, Sharad Pawar’s
response was poor but going by Congress rules after independendence,
Congress, a party of capitalist never contained inflation and many
fold increase in food prices after independence is evident. Moreover,
while appointing ministers, Govt. must ensure that a person does not
become minister for industry from his home state. Maharastra houses
major sugar mills and Sharad Pawar should not have been Agricultural
Minister. What better or clean administration Manmohan Singh,
projected and perceived as honest man by Indians, provide?
http://blogs.hindustantimes.com/singly-political/2010/03/19/whose-abuse-is-it-anyway/
Beat men fair and square
IF THE BILL DOES BECOME LAW, THOUGH,
I AM SURE AT LEAST THE YADAVS, WHO
ARE NOW OPPOSING IT VOCIFEROUSLY,
WILL BE AMONG THE FIRST TO BRING OUT
THEIR WIVES AND DAUGHTERS-IN-LAW TO
OCCUPY HIGH POSITIONS
Ihave always been agnostic when it comes to women’s
reservation: I am not against it per se, but I am not for
it either. My reservations about, well, reservation for
women is based on observation of how it has played out
in Maharashtra, which was among the first states to introduce
a 33 per cent quota for women in local self-government
bodies.
When I travelled to the villages, I noticed that most of
the women sarpanchs were wives of powerful men of the
area. Though it is getting slightly better these days, most
of these women did not take decisions on their own —
and if they did, their husbands would still beat them up.
In the cities, it was only somewhat better — the men
might not beat up women but the latter were certainly
puppets in the hands of their husbands.
I recall one particular woman corporator who had a
fairly bad reputation for just being who she was: the conservative
wife of a local party boss. Her husband took to
threatening people in her name and her mother-in-law
set up a desk right at her front door to rake in the earnings
— she personally counted the cash all day long!
It drove even members of her own party crazy. One of
them told me wryly, “I am against women’s reservation
only for this. Give a man a ticket and only he is corrupt,
give a woman a ticket and her whole family becomes
extortionists.’’
Of course, I did not agree with that perception and
ticked him off quite soundly.
I notice, though, that at least the Brihanmumbai
Municipal Corporation (BMC) has got better over the
years. But several years ago former Chief Minister
Manohar Joshi had told us, after fielding women relatives
of Shiv Sainiks, quite unabashedly, “We are a purushi
(male) party. Electable women are very difficult to find.’’
However, when Bombay Mayor Shraddha Jadhav gave
away awards on International Women’s Day this year, all
top officials on the dais were women: Shailaja Girkar is
the Deputy Mayor, Mridula Joshi is the Municipal
Secretary and Manisha Mhaiskar is the Additional
Municipal Commissioner. One half was there on account
of the benefit of reservation; the other half had got there
on their own steam, perhaps pipping several worthy men
at the post.
So while I saluted all those women, my ambivalence
towards women’s quota continued, even as the UPA government
failed to have the Bill passed in Parliament on
Monday.
If the Bill does become law, though, I am sure at least
the Yadavs, who are now opposing it vociferously, will be
among the first to bring out their wives and daughtersin-
law to occupy high positions — yes, even the ‘par kati’
ones — remember Sharad Yadav’s obnoxious remark
about women with short hair? His wife has (or at least
had at the time he made that remark) short hair.
Next would be the girlfriends, as we have seen many politicians
promote their paramours even without the benefit
of reservations. I wonder how long it will be before the
common woman, without the benefit of a Godfather in
politics, gets an opportunity to enter a legislative body
on her own merit.
But if she did, I am not so sure it would be fair to restrict
women to constituencies for just five or ten years. Former
Speaker Somnath Chatterjee had represented his constituency
in the Lok Sabha for ten terms — if not 50 years,
given several mid-term polls, this meant at least 40 years
at a stretch. Why should women not have similar right
to continue for as long as the voters want them?
If I were into electoral politics, I certainly would be
highly resentful at the injustice and unfairness of it all.
Yet, there is really no other way out of the situation. Which
once again reinforces my ambivalence about a quota for
women.
So it is just as well that I am not a politician with parliamentary
ambitions. I prefer to best the men at their
own game and beat them in their own backyards. As
Pratibha Patil did. And as many other exemplary women
are doing. ■ ***@hindustantimes.com
http://www.hindustantimes.com/images/HTPopups/120310/10_03_M_MTR_16.pdf
How does she do it?
I have said all I wanted to say about my reservations about the
women’s reservation bill in my column anandan on Wednesday this week.
Like I said in the column, I am agnostic about the bill – I neither
believe in it nor do I knock it. I simply doubt that it will help at
all (help the common woman, that is).
But whatever my reservations, I am amazed at how Sonia Gandhi managed
to have the bill passed in the Rajya Sabha on Tuesday, March 9. That
morning it looked as though not just the fate of the bill but also her
authority over her party was at risk. For, I know as a matter of fact
that many men in her party were as determined as Lalu and Mulayam
Yadav to ensure that it never became law and I thought they would
surreptitiously pitch in to scuttle the bill. But now I do not think
too many of them will dare voice their opposition.
I wonder what makes Sonia Gandhi take all the right calls and achieve
miracle after miracle in such quick succession. This particular bill
had been hanging in the balance for 14 years and when several more
stable governments could not manage to get it through, it really did
require a great deal of political will to push it at the risk of so
much endangerment of the UPA’s future.
I have heard people say quite often that we cannot find one single
Indian to rule this country and follow it up with the query: why
should Indians have to kowtow to the Italian bahu of Mrs Indira
Gandhi? In fact, I am looking to all those critics for an answer: yes,
really, why?
But I think I have a clue. And that came from a British diplomat to
quite another question. We were discussing how the Indian diaspora was
among the highest wage earners everywhere else in the world (and thus,
not surprisingly, they incurred the wrath of the locals in their
adopted countries for beating them to and keeping their jobs by sheer
dint of hard work). Yet, when it came to our own country, we were
among the poorest, most backward and taking too long getting anywhere.
The diplomat said, “Perhaps the answer lies in the fact that Indians
follow the rules to the `t’ wherever they live abroad. In India they
break the law all the time and so make it difficult for both
themselves and others to get along.’’
Then a Congress worker told me why he preferred Sonia Gandhi to her
husband, Rajiv. “She has a very European outlook on rules and honour.
She keeps her word and will not allow any violations. For example, if
the maximum age for a youth congress leader is 35, she will not allow
any one older to be elected to that post. No other considerations like
caste et al except what is stated in the rulebook. That is heartening
for the rest of us: we know we will eventually get there if we fit the
bill and no one can bring any untoward influence to bear upon her to
push us off the ladder. Even Rajivji was not so correct, he would
allow the occasional jugaad. ’’
That was a eulogy of his party president, of course, but I now wonder
if that is true. Perhaps she does bring a sense of honour and follows
the rules in everything she does and so succeeds more than others who
believe in, well, jugaad (manoeuvring people and situations to suit
their needs).
But on Tuesday, as she gave interviews to women journalists on
television, I was impressed by Sonia’s tone and pitch – happy but
thanking all the men for having made it possible. Gracious for their
support to both the Left parties and the BJP which have knocked her
endlessly over various issues but not gloating about it at all a la
the Yadavs, keeping a door open for the allies and, of course, very
self-effacing.
I say `self-effacing’ because when I first met her in Nasik several
years ago, after she first took over the party’s reigns in the middle
of an election in 1998 and miraculously helped a losing Congress win
45 of the 48 Lok Sabha seats from Maharashtra, she was quick to give
the credit to Sharad Pawar. And when we asked her about her role as
the Congress president, she said, “I am only the latest in a long
series of Congress presidents. Other Congress leaders have been around
longer than I have been and it is they who have done things for the
party, not me. I am still learning.’’
I guess she has learnt well by now and I remark upon another thing: in
the decade at the start of which even her own party men took her with
several fistfuls of salt to now, she seems to have muted the criticism
about her being a misfit in Indian politics and put their uncertainty
about her ability to deliver to rest.
The Congress is the most indisciplined, chaotic and irreverent party I
know. Yet they revere their party president more than the Shiv Sainiks
do Bal Thackeray or the BJP does its own succession of party chiefs.
Perhaps that is because she delivers to them nine times out of ten,
while others do not. But I continue to wonder: did Sonia Gandhi learn
it all at the feet of her mother-in-law or is she bringing a European
sense of commitment to her party that helps her defeat the might of
the BJP and its formidable allies in 2004 and return with an even
greater majority in 2009? And now give to Indian women what no man (or
even woman — most notably Indira Gandhi) has dared or cared to before?
(9 votes, average: 5 out of 5)
Posted by Sujata Anandan on Friday, March 12, 2010 at 9:05 pm
28 Responses to “How does she do it?”
vijai lugani says:
March 13, 2010 at 3:25 am
she leaenedrned the political process in india under the leader ship
of mrs. indra gandhi and of cousrse from rajiv gandhi. she knows upto
this time how to bring together different political shades under one
umberala when requied, she does not believe in cast and creed.she is
hard worker and of couse haverahul and pryanka and some faithful
polrical advisers. the author of this artical is absoultely right in
every aspect and more ever she is not power hungry. if she does not
like some people she can show them door to get out.
Nikhil Reply:
March 14th, 2010 at 3:13 am
Vijay Lugani,
If I write about the good qualities of my dhobi they’re not too far
from the ones that you wrote – hardworking, honest, faithful,
relatively selfless and mostly fair. For that matter these qualities
are universal and necessary to succeed in any profession. What makes
Sonia different from us is she finds herself married in to the most
politically influential family in our country where political power is
hereditary and party members are expected to bow to the whips of party
leaders.
Ajay says:
March 13, 2010 at 5:16 am
Interesting thoughts… However, I think many Europeans may feel that
Italian background is bit different from that of Western European one…
Ed says:
March 13, 2010 at 5:53 am
Take a dig on this topic at
[ http://pages.rediff.com/we-evolve/21809#allfeeds ]
The bill is only useful when it break the poverty lines, dynasty lines
…
It should be 35% (poor women), 35%(poor men), 30% (talented)
70% should be representative of poor.
It should be 35% (poor women), 35%(poor men), 30% (talented –
scientist, economist, etc)
THE BIG QUESTION IS how do we qualify to be
1 )Identify 70% – Poor & most popular 10 candiate representing Poor
People from certain region (MP/MLA area) to whom the Election
commision will fund campaign money
2 )To keep tap on Rich person whose campaign funds/money has to be
capped by Election commision and made almost equal to 1).
3 )Criteria to identify 30% (talented people)
Ways to find the list 1) and 2) and 3) is something ruling party needs
to think and debate instead of wasting time.
To gauge 1), we need to count the strongest of the following points by
Election Commision and more can be added by debates
A) Years of work
B) Have an open debate at ONE or TWO cantenders preferred location
agreed by each contenders,
let contenders speak what they have done and want to do.
Make people/choser stand in different locations on the debate ground
to exibit their support.
The count done to choose the top 10.
C) Ensure rotation between Male and Female, thus women whose work and
popularity is on her own rather than backing of GOONDAS should be
preferred for qualifying 1)
People backed by money and goonda power cannot qualify for 1)
D) Every term, Election commision can choose certain region by Gender,
thus they can choose between the women & men that qualify for 1) or
term when both women & men qualify for 1)
Debate should be there to decide if 2)candiates should be allowed to
contest irrespective of gender.
Cap/restriction of number of time(2 times max) a candiate can stand
for elections in a sequence.
Debate on how election commsion will enforce 1) on all parties and in
all regions.
Debate on how to lessen the dynasty and family business and bring
democracy by Election Commission criteria in 1).
Nikhil Reply:
March 14th, 2010 at 4:11 am
Ed,
Because you write of so many different, often contradictory,
qualifications for running for office may be you should be our next
Election Commission.
Vijay Saini says:
March 13, 2010 at 6:36 am
Meekly following Sonia Gandhi is the slave mentallity. Although India
is a free country now, it would take us a very long time to get over
the slave mindframe. I think we are ripe and ready for foreign rule by
proxy. Any country can capture us in reality.
AB says:
March 13, 2010 at 7:56 am
Funny article, then lets elect Silvio Berlusconi as president of
India.Problem solved
Jitendra says:
March 13, 2010 at 9:18 am
I have never read such a degrading article. It is a shame that we
still have white man’s lackey amongst us. It is achivement of Mcaulays
education aystem that country continues to create such people even
after 62 years. She can do it because congis are a party of chamchas
and nincompoops including PM. Not a single congi has any moral, ethics
and no one is ready to stand up for the good of country. They only
stand up to save their chair and that depends of congi president. This
article talks of European values and commitment. Is author trying to
say that India does not have people with values and commitments. We
have plenty of people but stupid system of election where masses of
Idiots vote on the basis of caste, religion and personal loyalties.
What a stupid assumption on the part of author that Eurpeons are
better then us. In western coutries it is the system that works but
people are no different from us.
This bill is wrong because it will create rabris. Every from of
reservation and quota should be removed if country has to make any
progress. Otherwise mediocres will continue to stuff this country and
we will reamin a third world country forever. Singapore, Japan and
Malayasia are better than us without importing any whity. Have you
ever thought why we are still joke of the world after 62 years.
Reservation is an indication of failures of Govt economic and social
policies, and majority of the time Congi traitors have been in rule.
Wake up and get rid of banana spine and start believing in yourself
and it is shame that congis have imposed a whity on us. It hurts my
self respect.
LAKSHMANAN says:
March 13, 2010 at 9:32 am
Any type of reservations, on a permanent basis, is a threat to
liberty, standard of life, freedom and finally to democracy. See what
is happening in government due to reservations, especially reservation
policy in promotions. Merit is sidelined and in the name of social
justice many people occupy posts which they would not have got but for
reservations. It is not their fault and no one is worried about the
declining standard of Administration which is directly affecting the
generl public.
The introduction of reservation for women may be an eye opener in the
years to come and after 10 or 15 years every all shall join together
to undo reservations of any kind, I hope.
Nikhil says:
March 13, 2010 at 10:11 am
Oh god! When will journos stop sucking toes of the Nehru-Gandhi
family? Perhaps, never.
Bhukkal Reply:
March 13th, 2010 at 10:21 am
Thats the best summarisation of this article, Nikhil. Well the journos
are on fat pay packets….there is no responsible and honest journalism
left, they have to also buy flats in posh areas, salaries will cater
to their chai paani only… Shameless Creed, I wish there were Kiran
Bedis in Journalism as well.
Ekta B says:
March 13, 2010 at 11:07 am
Although an expat now, this is definitely the way I see things under
Sonia Gandhi in India, a very well written article indeed.
I have now lived overseas for the last 14 years and as someone who has
been given their fair share in an adopted and foreign land and made to
feel so at home, I must say it feels good to read that Sonia has
achieved in India (not from a political but recognition stand-point)
what we hope to achieve overseas as immigrant Indians.
I hope there are more people like her from different political
persuasions for it would make for a better and stronger India.
Nikhil Reply:
March 14th, 2010 at 3:01 am
Ekta B,
To be where Sonia is in politics today, one has to first marry in to
the most politically influential family in a country where dynastic
politics reigns supreme. This privilege is found only in India and not
in the West. After looking at the success of political heirs in India,
I’m convinced humans are capable of being reasonably successful if
they’re thrown in any job.
As far as success of foreigners in India is concerned, we already do
it well in many different spheres.
Anil says:
March 13, 2010 at 2:29 pm
Basically I am against any kind of reservations. The historic bill
however was a necessity because of our historic suppression of the
female gender over thousands of centuries. The real necessity is the
empowerment to the women. The glaring example is in the way women are
treated in Army. The strangest thing is that people have totally
forgotten the most maligned PM Mr H D Devegowda (the humble farmer)
and his Law Minister Ram Das Khalap who tabled the bill for the first
time.
Anil Reply:
March 13th, 2010 at 2:44 pm
One more point about our Constitution. India gave voting rights to
women since its independence. USA gave voting rights to women almost
80 years after the blacks got to vote in 1870 !
Gopi Thomas says:
March 13, 2010 at 6:30 pm
Although I do not care about congress party and its politics, I do
admire and respect Mrs Gandhi. Like many, I was questioning her
selection, her “foreign” status, her commitment etc. I have come 180
degrees around, she is an exemplary leader, good disciplinarian. I
firmly believe now, that she at the core, is 100% “Indian”, much much
more than many of her followers or other Indians. I do believe she
wants to create a better and new India on the foundation of our
ancient and rich heritage. Originally it was the call of her husband;
now I truly believe, to her, it is now the call of the country.
Atul8 says:
March 13, 2010 at 8:52 pm
In all my years of international travel, I learnt a valuable lesson
about myslef and my countrymen…. we lack accountability & discipline.
Of course, controlling the congress coffers does help, but Sonia’
foreign roots are really an advantage in this Jugaad ridden society
Most important, normally europeans are not given to visions of
grandeur when in power, unlike in our case where the lust for that red
light on the car is more important than perforing their gievn jobs.
It has to be the European sense of commitment….all the way!!
Nikhil Reply:
March 14th, 2010 at 4:02 am
Atul8,
If you think Sonia’s european heritage makes her special in Indian
politics, too bad we let the British go, is it not?
The European sense of commitment and discipline were not achieved
overnight by passing bills for quotas in European governments. If
you’re suggesting to overcome lack of accountability and discipline in
India through more political quotas, perhaps, you should continue with
your international travel till you see clear.
Atul8 Reply:
March 14th, 2010 at 10:19 am
Nikhil,
My response in one line -
Too bad we did not embrace and carry forward the sense of discipline &
accountability when we let the British go.
You need to do something about your aggression – it is colouring your
usual objectivity
Nikhil Reply:
March 14th, 2010 at 4:44 pm
Atul8,
The sense of discipline & accountability is not a British – or should
I say Italian – USP. Such characteristics are universal and cultivated
in societies where merit and systems are valued more than quotas and
personalities. We could not develop that sense because of intellectual
lethargy and we let ’some’ leaders off the hook when they dilute
democractic processes.
What you may see as aggression, I see it as a natural response to the
perfidy of the mainstream media. Happy international traveling, for
you.
Atul8 Reply:
March 15th, 2010 at 5:46 pm
Nikhil,
Whatever we are, we have done unto ourselves – good or bad.
But when a discussion veers away from the issue to personalities, then
it becomes a clear indication that objectivity is losing out.
Musnt let that happen in the interest of a healthy debate.
Nikhil Reply:
March 16th, 2010 at 1:14 am
Atul8,
Dear, the article revolves around hollow personality and not
substance. The comments will not be too far off, would they? I
fundamentally disagree with your point of view and I had to express it
in a sharp way.
Atul8 Reply:
March 18th, 2010 at 12:43 am
Nikhil,
You were not being sharp. You were being obtuse.
However, enough has been exchanged on this topic, and we should move
on.
Nikhil Reply:
March 18th, 2010 at 5:31 am
Atul8,
It provoked you, that’s all I wanted. Enough said!
Harish says:
March 15, 2010 at 3:31 pm
Is ambika soni ghost writing these articles
You did hit it out of the park with the European honour bit maam…
stupid and rash…but..takes guts..the right wing is sort of like the
australian team in the early part of last decade on the internet…and
they are still reeling in shock and have not attacked this piece in
earnest even after two days…
Rajeev says:
March 16, 2010 at 1:07 am
This article truly reflects dark skinned Indians’ mentality…eternal
slaves
Anil says:
March 16, 2010 at 2:17 am
The Congress is the most indisciplined, chaotic and irreverent party I
know. Yet they revere their party president more than the Shiv Sainiks
do Bal Thackeray or the BJP does its own succession of party chiefs.
The first sentence is unadultyerated lie.. i have never seen any
congress man being anythgin beyond yesman to the nehru family figure..
Somehow this is being presented as virtue which it is not.
BJP is nto family rule Shiv sena could be another matetr altogether
but to ask BJP men to be supine and fawning liek congressmen towards
their leader is negating the intra party democracy of BJP. Everyone is
free to express hsi/per opninon noone need fawn like congressmen do to
the later of 10 janpath.
Rajeev says:
March 16, 2010 at 9:53 pm
I get a feeling that Anandan may be dreaming for Congress ticket in
2014..Good going..Why don’t you start licking feet of Sonia like
Barkha did recently.
http://blogs.hindustantimes.com/singly-political/2010/03/12/how-does-she-do-it/
Kill Bill, for men’s and women’s sake
Amid riotous scenes, India’s upper house passed a controversial
legislation to reserve a third of seats in federal and state
legislatures for women. The constitutional amendment “one that changes
the scope of India’s Constitution” is likely to scrape through the
powerful lower house, too. Despite overreaching itself, the government
of the day will probably survive.
In principle, empowering women is the way to go. Yet this triumph is a
zero-sum game. One participant’s gains can come only from another’s
equivalent losses. It seeks to pay Paul by robbing Peter.
This bill is deeply flawed because collateral damages have not been
addressed. Since it will be a zero-sum game, it will have a direct
bearing on representations of minority communities, backward castes
and marginalized women themselves. The Bill is anti-minority, anti-
backwards, and both anti-women and anti-men.
In a largely risk-averse political system, Congress chief Sonia Gandhi
can take the credit for pulling out a Bill that previous governments
“including those run by her own party” had abandoned, and for driving
it past dissenters whom she may in future need.
Imposing a 33 per cent quota seems momentous in a country where female
foetuses are aborted, wives spanked and women are paid less than a
third the male average in unorganized jobs. In reality, the quota can
add to the sort of disequilibrium current legislatures are made of.
Even setting aside the fact that some male MPs will naturally have to
step down for women, the proposed law fundamentally changes the basic
nature of India’s electoral representation.
With a 15-year shelf-life, 33 per cent of the seats will be blocked in
rotation and will be done in a way that a seat shall be reserved once
in three back-to-back elections. The revolving quota is the Bill’s
most serious flaw.
Two-thirds of candidates, men and women, will be unseated every time
and one-thirds will have no chance of being re-elected from the same
seat. This one-third will be left wondering if they will get to retain
their seats, depending on the outcome of the lottery.
On the whole, it will set off largescale churning “every single time”
that will make elections farcical. Electors will vote in, rather than
vote out incompetent representatives. With frequently changing
representatives, what would voters go by in deciding whom to elect?
The role of past performance in deciding a candidate’s fate will be
further lessened, thereby blunting the only weapon the common man has.
Constituencies will cease to matter for candidates. The veterans and
more guile among candidates will resettle themselves, pushing out less
iconic politicians.
Accountability will suffer because a candidate will less likely go to
the same voter every time. The voters’ powers to rate a candidate’s
performance will diminish, paving the way for a greater role of money
in deciding electoral outcomes.
A “sense of belonging” is part and parcel of Indian politics.
Constituencies are nursed by politicians who invest time, efforts and
money into the place they hope to get elected from.
Can we have compelling women leaders if they do not have strong
permanent political bases? The current Bill is paternalistic; it seeks
to make rolling-stone politicians of women, or “one-time players”, to
use women activist Madhu Kishwar’ words.
Several women’s rights organisations have highlighted these fault
lines. NGO Manushi advocates an alternative Bill, requiring political
parties to reserve nominations (tickets) for women, not seats.
Feminist fundamentalists, however, in their zeal, have failed to
appreciate the serious weaknesses hidden in the proposed amendment.
Though it will not exactly result in separate electorates, the women’s
reservation Bill, in spirit, moves towards that direction. But
proponents of the Bill deny such a possibility. Separate electorates,
theoretically, are those where electors and the elected belong to the
same community, sex or caste.
The Constituent Assembly “which served as India’s first Parliament
until it framed the Constitution” had overturned separate electorates
granted by the British government to minorities, especially Muslims
and Sikhs.,
Framers of the Constitution opted to keep the highest elected
institution free from preferential treatment, preferring the “first
past the post system”over proportional representation, save for time-
bound reservation for Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes to enable
them to overcome disadvantages.
The Constituent Assembly initially included minority safeguards in its
Report on Minority Rights adopted in August 1947 and in the Draft
Constitution’s Part XIV. However, subsequent nationalist arguments
“situated in the immediate past history of Partition” paved the way
for a reversal of minority safeguards.
The principal arguments against it were that such rights were based on
caste and religion, and religion-based separate electorates had been
the immediate trigger for Partition. With the Muslim League and the
Sikh Panthic Party in disarray, Muslim and Sikh acquiescence on
reversing minority safeguards was ultimately secured.
The reversal was done by a close vote in the Constituent Assembly
Advisory Committee meeting, but key Muslim leaders, including Congress
leader Maulana Azad, abstained. (R. Retzlaff points out in “The
Problem of Communal Minorities in the Drafting of the Indian
Constitution” that the Constitution would have included political
safeguards for religious minorities had framing been completed during
the initial timetable fixed for it. Also see Rochana Bajpai’s Minority
Rights in Indian Constitution, Working Paper 30).
If the women’s Bill is passed in its current form, then a clear case
emerges for compensatory minority safeguards to be reactivated, not
separate electorates but reserved seats.
In fact, parties like Rashtriya Janata Dal, the Samajwadi Party and
Muslim organizations have demanded a quota-within-quota in women’s
reservation.
Muslim representation in the federal legislature is dwindling: from 48
in 1985, it is 29 at present. In all 15 Lok Sabha elections, only 14
Muslim women have been elected. Kerala has two Muslim federal
lawmakers, Tamil Nadu and Andhra Pradesh have 1 each. States such as
Mahrashtra, Gujarat, Haryana and Rajasthan have none..
The women’s reservation Bill is based on the presumption of
homogeneity in the status of women. Homogeneity is a stupid idea when
applied to assess communities horizontally. Not all women, like
Muslims, are equally disadvantaged or privileged.
Since privileged groups are always in a better position to leverage
concessions, the proposed amendment will help privileged women gain at
the expense of less-privileged ones. Though ideally, the highest
elected forum should be able to be free from all reservations, a quota
that specifically addresses maginalised women would have been
pragmatic.
The Congress, at his stage, clearly has not thought of the jigsaw
puzzle that awaits it. It is simply basking in the glory of a
political stunt. The BJP has eyes set on inroads through upper-caste
women. The Left’s euphoria matches Abdullah’s in this Urdu
proverb: begaani shaadi me Abdullah diwana (Abdullah is rejoicing at
an uninvited wedding).
(10 votes, average: 2.7 out of 5)
Posted by Zia Haq on Sunday, March 14, 2010 at 8:04 pm
Filed under India · Tagged collateral damages, Congress chief Sonia
Gandhi, elections, India’s Constitution, legislation, Madhu Kishwar,
Scheduled Castes, Scheduled Tribes
36 Responses to “Kill Bill, for men’s and women’s sake”
Gopi Thomas says:
March 14, 2010 at 9:48 pm
Churning, short terms etc are good; and an increased representation
for women is even better. Democracy works through elected
representatives voting on changes and issues. I do hope Lok Sabha
votes for this; and if they do, I hope people like Zia will shut up.
These are the same people who want reservation for this group of
people and that group of people; what is wrong with having seats
reserved for women?
Panchayaths, municipality, and Corporation elections (and mayoral
slots) in Kerala have been reserved for women in the last 15 years,
and it ahs produced real grass roots level progress. A bigger
representation by women in Parliamenta nd aswemblies will only do
good.
Vijay Bhatia Reply:
March 15th, 2010 at 2:53 am
Gopi, you are arguing in favor of increased representation of women in
Parliament and Assemblies. That of course is very much desirable. But
this bill, in its current form is a sure prescription of political
chaos.
What this bill means is that no male leader can represent same
constituency more than twice! And this will do no long term good for
women politicians either. Because, before they can gain ground and
experience, they will have to move on, since in next election cycle
the seat won’t be reserved!
Here is a very Rational take on this important issue (feel free to
comment):-
http://rationalopinion.blogspot.com/2010/03/no-good-womens-reservation-bill.html
[Reply]
Vijay Reply:
March 15th, 2010 at 8:09 am
No one is arguing against a bigger representation by omen in
Parliament and assemblies will be good. The debate is about how to
achieve it.
The bill in its current form is sure recipe for political chaos.
Here is another rational opinion on this important issue:-
http://rationalopinion.blogspot.com/2010/03/no-good-womens-reservation-bill.html
Bell Bajao Reply:
March 15th, 2010 at 8:17 pm
“Panchayaths, municipality, and Corporation elections (and mayoral
slots) in Kerala have been reserved for women in the last 15 years,
and it ahs produced real grass roots level progress. A bigger
representation by women in Parliamenta nd aswemblies will only do
good.”
Indeed! We’ve seen this happen in other parts of the company as well.
Reservation in panchayat has actually empowered women in villages and
has helped a lot in their upliftment.
VARUN SAXENA says:
March 15, 2010 at 1:53 am
Mr.Zia, the bill has certain Issues and to a certain the bill proposed
by Madhu Kishwar is in someways better.
But what I cannot understand is this. You said “The Bill is anti-
minority, anti-backward”. Can you pls explain How ?
How can women reservation bill be Anti Muslim ? How come just about
everything becomes Anti Muslim ?
I hope this bill passes with some modifications and not the
modifications which Mulayam and Laloo are suggesting but the ones
suggested by Learned People.
The only reason Mulayam and Laloo are against this Bill is that most
of the MPs’ of these 2 parties are big goons and only through these
goondaism of these goons alongwith folling Muslims and Lower Castes by
pitting them against Upper Castes do they win elections.
Now it can be safely said that more than 95% goons in INDIA would be
men. Henceforth with Women having 33% reservations the chances of
these parties winning Elections will be inversely affected
Ashish says:
March 15, 2010 at 2:21 am
I agree that while the objective is laudable, the bill as it stands
today is deeply flawed. I am not comfortable with the idea of having
no power over my MP (man or woman) who knows that he/ she will not
need my vote next time.
I liked the arguments put forward by Karan Thapar favouring changes to
the bill in his column earlier today.
Am I against reserving seats for women? No, I am not. But, this bill
in its present form; no, it does not appeal to me. MPs are not IAS
officers that they can serve one constituency (district) for 2 terms
and then move to another one for the next terms.
However, trust Zia to use the Women’s reservation bill to ask for
reservations for Muslims.
Way to go Zia; suck up to Mulayam now. Who knows, he might make you an
MLA/ MP from Delhi.
Vini says:
March 15, 2010 at 2:27 am
The headline of this post should be: Kill Bill, for men’s sake. After
all, all the rhetoric we have heard in recent days about the bill
being a threat to parliamentary democracy, equality… blah, blah,
blah…. including this blogpost… is simply a smokescreen to hide the
truth that no man wants to be caught admitting: That men, don’t want
to share power with women. Ever.
Yes the Bill has flaws, but those flaws can be addressed without
killing the Bill.
What I want to say here first is that I take extreme offense at the
use of the word ‘spanking’ to trivialize a serious issue like domestic
violence. Do you have any idea what domestic violence is? Perhaps not.
That’s why you treat it so flippantly.
As for the rest of the blog, it is all conjecture. You and all the
doomsayers don’t know if this bill will work till it is implemented.
It might just. And forget that old argument that it will be taken over
by elite women. So far it’s been elite men in charge.. so what’s wrong
with elite women having a go?
As for the problems of revolving quota that you bring up as the Bill’s
most serious flaw, I think you can argue the other way too. That is,
MPs from reserved constituencies will work extra hard in the reserved
constituency to ensure that they get a ticket when the seat is not
reserved any more because of the good work they would have hopefully
done.
Ashish Reply:
March 16th, 2010 at 6:02 pm
@Vini,
Mr Zia can’t just win, can he ?
For the first time, Zia tried arguing for the majority (men!). And,
still, he finds very few supporters!
Not speaking for Zia here; just speaking for myself.
I support the objectives behind the bill; as a man. I see in India a
huge need to balance the power structure which is so tilted in favour
of men. Also, as others have pointed out in comments, an increased
representation for women is inversely correlated (or so we hope) to
the criminality quotient of our legislatures.
I do not wish this bill to be killed. I do however wish this bill to
be amended to somehow handle the rotation issue. Like I had said,
Karan Thapar made some excellent suggestions. So did the legal cell
head of the Shiv Sena on TV.
Ma’am, most men on this blog are not against the bill; please do not
make the mistake of thinking men oppose the bill. Far from it.
Certainly not because we will lose a chance to be an MP/ MLA… I doubt
any of us commenting here have realistically ever thought of
contesting elections.
All men are not Laloo Yadav/ Sharad Yadav/ Mulayam Yadav.. luckily all
women are not Mayawati, Mamata or Jayalalitha either who promote
women even less than men do.
May I also mention that I have a vested interest? As one with two
daughters, at least one of whom is seriously disinclined to study
(admittedly early days, she is just 6), I love the new career options
this bill opens up for her.
Vijay Bhatia says:
March 15, 2010 at 2:55 am
“I am not comfortable with the idea of having no power over my MP (man
or woman) who knows that he/ she will not need my vote next time.”
Excellent point Ashish!
Here is my take on this important issue, if you like:-
http://rationalopinion.blogspot.com/2010/03/no-good-womens-reservation-bill.html
K says:
March 15, 2010 at 4:09 am
I dont understand what makes the women reservation bad but all those
other reservations (BC,SC,OBC etc.) good ? Both types are aimed at the
‘marginalized’ and both actually lower the quality of politicians we
elect and even more importantly, both a against the constitution which
lets the people decide who should represent them.
Quota has only helped influential sections of SC,BC,OBC. This is not
like a ‘Kaun Banega Crorepati’ where an unknown, marginalized dalit or
lady can make it to the parliament, no matter how much quota is
introduced.
As Sonia shockingly and sadly commented, people like Lalu will have
greater control over parliament and greater share of black money
because he has seven daughters and the power to field them in
elections.
peshori ahuja says:
March 15, 2010 at 5:41 am
Reservation itself means that the comunity, the religion, the class,
or any groupthat asks or gets reservation is not capable of attaining
the efficiency of the level that is attained by those for whom there
is no reservation.
Not only that but by asking or getting the reservation makes the
reserveds a second class citizens and it makes the clever politicians
more manipolative and powerful.
Vijay says:
March 15, 2010 at 8:14 am
For most parts I agree with Zia’s reasoning. This bill in it’s current
form is a sure recipe for political chaos. Political commitment by
parties is way to go.
Why political parties have to be coerced by laws? Where did the days
go, when parties used to organize “aandolans” for social cause? Why
not even congress want to field more women candidates, unless coerced
by the law?
This is anything but LEADERSHIP.
Here is another rational opinion on this important issue:-
http://rationalopinion.blogspot.com/2010/03/no-good-womens-reservation-bill.html
Joseph James says:
March 15, 2010 at 8:20 am
The writer bases his arguments against the women’s bill on the false
premise that the retention of a constituency by a sitting member is
the be-all and end-all of democracy. In an advanced stage of
democracy, every election will bring in new candidates as it is
happening in the southern states. In fact, a constituency must be
nursed by a party and not by individuals. At any rate, going by the
arguments of bill’s opponents like Zia, the candidates displaced by
the reservation are going to promote women from their families. This
will mean that, certain constituencies which were individual pocket
boroughs earlier will now become family pocket boroughs. Or ingenious
candidates will now start nursing two constituencies instead of one.
In short the electorate, now, stand to receive more attention from the
politicians, which isn’t a bad thing after all. Moreover, rotational
unseating is applicable only to men, not to women. So, performing
women members can continue to represent their constituencies even when
they become unreserved. This will push the female strength in the
parliament beyond the mandatory 33%. The argument that the bill
doesn’t address the grievances of marginalized women doesn’t hold
water either. As of today all women are marginalized. The quota within
quota can come in the second stage. After all this is a mere
beginning. Amendments can be introduced later to make it foolproof. It
must be given time to evolve like the anti-defection law. What’s most
worrying about the anti-bill movement is that it seems to be centred
around the Muslim interests. Even the socialist parties are
purportedly doing it please the Muslim minority. I do not think Islam
is as anti-women and anti-progress as it is usually made out to be.
Dr. P.K. Jha says:
March 15, 2010 at 8:43 am
Reservation in any form is bad, be it caste-based or gender-based or
religion-based. As Karan Thapar says, the whole issue of reservation
is an offense, for it leads to severe discrimination. The proposed
bill for women is no exception.
The women in favor of this bill are virtually projecting themselves as
handicapped. Strangely, they are the ones who also insist on gender
equality.
Every policy of reservation is initially deemed to end after a period
of ten to fifteen years, and this one is no exception. However, we
know from our experience that this kind of promise is basically a
hogwash.
There is still time for good sense to prevail. For heaven’s sake,
withdraw the bill.
sks says:
March 15, 2010 at 9:05 am
The fact is that a woman might actually do very well in 5 years to be
re-elected again. Why should anyone presume that they will not get
reelected! It might be the best strategy to break the current fiefdom
without performance!
By the way, which sane person uses the word spanked for abuse!
Shrinivas says:
March 15, 2010 at 9:22 am
Some of the objections to the bill are valid, but since for 60 years
the disparity, marginalization and backwardness of women is not
addressed by the the political system, only quota is the solution.
Though this is meant for 15 years, we can imagine this not going away
after that.
The people who suggest that let parties reserve % of candidacy to
women is not going to work, as we all know that just to satisfy the %
the parties will give tickets where they don’t stand a chance to win.
Now, about quota within quota, I believe being women, representing
women and fighting for women is a bigger cause than representing a
cast, community or a section of society. So let’s fight for the the
right cause first. These parties who are making hoopla about quota in
quota, did not bother to give tickets neither to women nor minorities
in the same %.
Sid says:
March 15, 2010 at 9:26 am
First of All welcome change from Zia Haq – atleast instead of calling
for Fatwa – he is trying to engage in a debate! However, it is NOT an
intellectual debate because:
1. For Muslims there are many forums & 80% our media is in FOREFRONT
to project their interests & represent their view points.
2. For OBC & SC, 63 years have gone by, except for their leaders
becoming Zillionaires, NO REAL improvements have been seen in their
lives. Many CMs ruled for long time (Laloo, Karunanadhi, Mulayam,
Mayawathi etc). Same is true of Muslims (all Bollywood big guns are
Muslims – do they donate any charity to good Muslim organizations?)
Money also comes from Gulf employed Muslims.
3. My wife should be writing this – but she is BUSY listening to
Bollywood songs, so SPIRITED men like me have to take up the cause of
WOMEN!
4. Most important – Laloo has commented – women’s bill OVER his dead
body – such GOLDEN oppertunity may NEVER again come in our life times,
so why NOT KILL TWO wonderful birds with one STONE. Don’t even THINK –
JUST go for the KILL by voting BLINDLY for women’s bill!
n s parameswaran says:
March 15, 2010 at 9:54 am
The people who call themselves secular, liberal and progressive are
the people who ask for communal reservation for Muslims under the garb
of ‘Monorities’. . When they practice ‘Communalism’ it is called
‘Progressive Politics’, and when Hindus object to it they are labelled
‘Communal’.
If muslims are backward then the reason is they want to be backward.
They never started or took admission in schools and colleges and
instead started “madarassa’, learnt Quaran by rote. Now how can they
get jobs which such ‘UN”Qualifications. Then they blackmail the
majority with cries of injustice and opression. Spineless parties like
Congress, Left and Opportunistic and unprincipled parties like RJD,
SP, DMK, AIADMK, JD(Secular), Left and the whole bandwagon of seculars
have fallen for this blackmail and ruined India.
MUSLIMS SHOULD NEVER EVER BE GIVEN RESERVATION UNDER ANY
CIRCUMSTANCES.
Tanuj says:
March 15, 2010 at 12:07 pm
The britishers used seperate electorate to divide & rule. By giving
reservation based on religion we would be doing the same. Who stops a
party to give a ticket to a muslim lady from one of the reserved
seats?
I think it is a landmark bill and should be supported by all.
Gurmeet says:
March 15, 2010 at 1:15 pm
I think this bill will prove to be a boon for all women, but
especially for Muslim women. Representation of Muslim women has so far
been very weak. When one-third of the seats are reserved for women, a
substantial number of muslim majority constituency will have to elect
a woman. There is an excellent chance that those constituencies shall
be represented by Muslim women. It is also likely that these women
will not be the burka or naquab clad women, who are oppressed by the
fundamentalists in the Muslim society, but would be more socially
progressive and liberated from the dogmas. This is likely because the
arduous task of reaching and engaging with the electorate will be so
much easier for the progressive Muslim women. These women will serve
as the role model of rest of the young women in Muslim society, which
will ultimately be a good thing both for the Muslims and therefore for
India.
Vini says:
March 15, 2010 at 2:57 pm
The headline of this post should be: Kill Bill, for men’s sake. After
all, all the rhetoric we have heard in recent days about the bill
being a threat to parliamentary democracy, equality… blah, blah,
blah…. including this blogpost… is simply a smokescreen to hide the
truth that no man wants to be caught admitting: That men, don’t want
to share power with women.
Yes the Bill has flaws, but those flaws can be addressed without
killing the Bill.
What I want to say here is that I take extreme offense at the use of
the word ‘spanking’ to trivialize a serious issue like domestic
violence. Do you have any idea what domestic violence is? Perhaps not.
That’s why you treat it so flippantly.
As for the rest of the blog, it is all conjecture. You and all the
doomsayers don’t know if this bill will work till it is implemented.
It might just. And forget that old argument that it will be taken over
by elite women. So far it’s been elite men in charge.. so what’s wrong
with elite women having a go?
As for the problems of revolving quota that you bring up as the Bill’s
most serious flaw, I think you can argue the other way too. That is,
MPs from reserved constituencies will work extra hard in the reserved
constituency to ensure that they get a ticket when the seat is not
reserved any more because of the good work they would have hopefully
done.
Ziauddin Shafi says:
March 15, 2010 at 6:59 pm
The simple fact is that, if you want to prevent a civil war in our
country, you will have to simply amend it and incorporate all the
demands that are being raised here. No, this is not a threat – nobody
can threaten a civil war damn it, this is just a forecast of shape of
things to come. Maoists on the rampage, Yadavs fully agitated, Muslims
further discriminated against and lesser represented in the power
share, Dalits more oppressed than before – and the high caste hindus
more getting more power in the process. This is a sure formula of
inciting a civil war – thank you congress, bjp and cpim – you are
about to do something which china, usa, europe & pakistan would have
loved to do – have a great civil war in india so that it receds back
to the middle ages – then it would be easier for the buccanneers of
the khyber to get in and set up shop. India had always suffered due to
the high caste hindus throughout its history – and alas would continue
to do so because of them.
S Singh Reply:
March 15th, 2010 at 8:45 pm
Ziauddin
Nice “hope”!
Believe me, your hope will not happen. India is beyond that.
Skirmishes will be there, appeasing politicians will continue to
appease, country will progress at a rate less than what it could have.
A growing India uplifts all; the huge spending govt does on
disadvantaged will only grow.
If 10% of so called high caste Hindus control the whole India, one
should congratulate them on their skills.
Have you tabulated the “classification” of the top 100 richest
Indians ? Do you know how many Brahmins are in the richest 100? It is
4.
sanjeev says:
March 15, 2010 at 7:06 pm
@ Zia
i could guess that Zia will ultimately turn to his muslim
reservation.
You need a serious therapy of “reverse brainwashing”
I f these skull caps and three quarter pyajama’s got reservation then
this will be step towards another Pakistan in the making. Remember the
process started this way in 1909…Morley Minto Reforms
SKS Mumbai says:
March 15, 2010 at 9:31 pm
‘The Bill is anti-minority, anti-backwards, and both anti-women and
anti-men’
If we exclude the women and men, it would read like a pre-partition
Muslim League’s pamphlet.
‘Framers of the Constitution — —- —– save for time-bound reservation
for Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes to enable them to overcome
disadvantages.’
Except for the rotation part (clearly a problem), how is current bill
different from above?
‘The principal arguments against it were that such rights were based
on caste and religion and religion-based separate electorates had been
the immediate trigger for Partition’
Just immediate trigger? Or the whole basis?
Zia sahab, are you suggesting that proportional representation was the
way to go? We thought that all those wanted proportional (actually
more than proportinal with a veto as well) representation crossed over
in 1947.
‘With the Muslim League and the Sikh Panthic Party in disarray, Muslim
and Sikh acquiescence on reversing minority safeguards was ultimately
secured’
Indeed, after Mr Jinnah and Muslim League left India in 1947, Muslims
of India had nobody to represent them, exactly as Mr Jinnah had
insisted all along. Our Hindu Communal Leaders foolishly questioned Mr
Jinnah’s premise. (For Mr Jinnah and ML, Hindu communalism was
represented by Gandhi, Nehru and congress, rarely did they talk of
Hindu Mahasabha)
‘In fact, parties like Rashtriya Janata Dal, the Samajwadi Party and
Muslim organizations have demanded a quota-within-quota in the women’s
reservation’
Yup, the ‘Strongest Argument’ against the bill.
Mr Zia’s Final Conclusions:
Congress acted dumb, Left dumber.
The Bill is a victory for Hindutva driven Bramhin-Bania combine!!
Do we need any other reason to oppose the Bill?
Rajeev says:
March 16, 2010 at 1:17 am
The best thing will be to merge India with pakistan and name is
Greater pakistan. Gives muslims like Zia 100% reservation with right
to kill or convert non-muslims especially hindus.
Anil says:
March 16, 2010 at 1:45 am
One participant’s gains can come only from another’s equivalent
losses. It seeks to pay Paul by robbing Peter
Do you have same sentiments in matters of reservation for muslims..
Hypocricy at its very best
Zia Haq Reply:
March 16th, 2010 at 5:52 pm
Unfortunately, of late, I haven’t been able to read up on the comments/
invectives that follow because of lack of time.
On your charge of hypocricy: What I said is up here for you to read
again. But Here’s what I didn’t say anywhere: that Muslims should get
separate electorates (something simply out of question) or political
reservation. On the contrary, I said: “Though ideally, the highest
elected forum should be able to be free from all reservations, a quota
that specifically addresses maginalised women would have been
pragmatic.” What does this tell you?
Even so, I am not against political reservation for women per se, but
not in the current form. I would much rather have political parties
give nomination to the extent of 33 per cent. Who or what stops them.
And please understand, I do not advcoate any quota on the basis of
homogeneity. I said so: “Homogeneity is a stupid idea when applied to
assess communities horizontally. Not all women, like Muslims, are
equally disadvantaged or privileged.” Therefore, I will never advocate
quota for all Muslims.
Understand that before I decide to write or take a position, I do
consider all relevant issues before arriving at an informed decision
and not simply think with a Muslim hat on. The Bill, in its current
form, suffers from inherent flaws. Its bearing on representations of
minority is one such flaw, among others. It is a given that Muslim
representation will be severely affected. And therefore it is a
legitimate concern. Moreover, blocking such a huge number of seats for
women in this way — I have argued — legitimises the demand for a quota
within quota for backward women, which will include Muslims, OBCs etc.
Nobody is even talking about Muslim political reservation. it’s not
required, not recommended and not demanded. The demand is for
political representation, not reservation.
Anil says:
March 16, 2010 at 1:48 am
NO muslim reservation in legislation.. we do not want start of another
pakistan movemenet.. this is how it all started in past..
Anil says:
March 16, 2010 at 2:08 am
See the thuggery of parties sekeing quota withitn quota.. these people
will make you belive as if they have bene emporing the women i within
their community caste only the general category women have faced
dicrmination. But fact is noone acroos the party caste creed lines
have bene empowering women. There is a common threat fo discrimantion
against women by their respective male folks.. Who stops these idiots
shouting for quota within quota from giving tickets to more and more
muslim and backward and sc/st and what nto women.
One fo the guy was saying woman; reseervation will dilute sc/st
reservation as if sc/st woman are nto sc/st.
These thuigs who support reservation when it’s conveneint to them are
suddenly parooting reservation pays peter by robbing paul..
Pahle ye akal nahin aai thi
ramesh says:
March 16, 2010 at 10:43 am
The mother of all the resavations is the resv. the muslims are allowed
tobe the resident non indians,
Rajeev Reply:
March 16th, 2010 at 9:47 pm
Good one. We have 150 million pakistanis living in India barring
handful.
SKS Mumbai says:
March 17, 2010 at 9:14 pm
@Zia
@Zia
‘I didn’t say anywhere: that Muslims should get separate electorates
(something simply out of question) or political reservation’
What you said was this: Constituent Assembly would have approved
separate electorates (is that same as Minority safeguards?) but for:
1. fresh memory of partition, which made the nationalist arguments;
particularly effective, and/or
2. a weakened Muslim League (I omit Sikh part here); and/or
3. abstention by key Muslim leaders.
Of course, that does not mean that you wanted ’separate electorates’
or ‘political reservation’ for Muslims?
Nor does your following statement mean so:
‘If the women’s Bill is passed in its current form, then a clear case
emerges for compensatory minority safeguards to be reactivated, not
’separate electorates’ but ‘reserved seats’
Am I missing something?
For e.g. the difference between ‘reserved seats’ and ‘political
reservation’?
Or the similarity between
‘compensatory’ and ‘only for marginalised’?
Ashish Reply:
March 18th, 2010 at 10:30 am
@SKS
It has been established before that Zia resorts to generalities when
specifics are called for.. at any rate, he has his own idioms and
syntaxes. Deliberately vague or vaguely deliberate, a compendium of
Zia-isms will be a best-seller.
As for your question: am I missing something? well, yes. You are. You
are missing the point of this blog. The sole function of this blog is
to generate controversy by ill-advised and poorly researched comments
and boost eyeballs.. the visit stats look good on account of Zia,
Vinod Sharma et al.. they are stars.
Rajeev says:
March 18, 2010 at 1:33 am
All the muslims who are asking for reservation on caste basis should
revert back to Hinduism.
The reservation for SC/ST/OBC was introduced to fight casteism in
HINDU society. It was for HINDUS who were at the bottom of their
SOCIETY. There were many who chose to become muslims/xtians to escape
HINDU casteism. Now if they want to come out of caste opression, they
need to revert back to hinduism.
In the word of Shri Kancha Illiah “islam and xtianity are democratic
religion” so there is no chance of casteism being part of muslim/xtian
socities.
Rajeev says:
March 18, 2010 at 9:24 pm
Simple solutions-
1. If you are muslim and want reservation on caste, come back to caste
system in Hinduism and avail the reservation.
2. If you are muslim and want reservation on caste but don’t want to
revert to Hinduism, please pack your bags and go back to pakistan
where you guys have 100% reservation.
http://blogs.hindustantimes.com/they-call-me-muslim/2010/03/14/kill-bill-for-men%e2%80%99s-and-women%e2%80%99s-sake/#more-144
Budgeting for minorities
Although historically aware of its disadvantaged sections and their
special needs, India has decisively switched from ‘appeasing’ Muslims
— its largest minority — to budgeting for them.
Two things in recent years have helped institutionalise minority
budgeting. One is the creation of a minority affairs ministry by the
Congress-led UPA government in 2004 and, as a result, yearly budgetary
allocations made to it.Two, a high-level government survey in November
2006 that proved disadvantages faced by Muslims, followed up with
another one that recommended reservations.
Till now, an unproductive Hajj subsidy worth Rs 390 crore — which goes
in bankrolling the pilgrimage through discounted airfare — had been
the flagship largesse.
Even though government-funded religious travel is not unique to
Muslims, the Hajj subsidy has often been singled out as unfair.
The Centre underwrites a part of the travel costs of the annual Hindu
pilgrimage to Kailash Mansarovar in Tibet, the abode of the Hindu god
Shiva.
Karnataka’s Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) government proposes
concessional Hindu pilgrimages to the temples of Udupi, Dharmasthala
and Saudatti in the southern Indian state.
In neighbouring Andhra Pradesh, the Congress party-led government
subsidises the cost of travel for Christians visiting Jerusalem in
Israel and Bethlehem in Palestinian Authority. A subsidy is also being
planned, according to media reports, for Manasarovar Yatra in China.
Why should government fund religious jaunts? Either because we are a
welfare state unlike any other or it is a game of votes. Perhaps,
both.
Deploying tax revenues for affordable healthcare, education and
employment may be good economics but in an ancient holy land,
spiritual well being seems to deserve importance too. But competing
populism has definitely crept into it.
Show me an economically underprivileged Hindu who will find fault with
government help to make a dip in the holy Ganges a reality? Or a
Muslim quibbling over a lifetime visit to Mecca, courtesy government
help?
However, there is a growing demand from Muslims themselves for the
Hajj subsidy to be scrapped. While it gives Air India 150,000 assured
passengers every year (that’s the total number of seats on all Indian
carriers criss-crossing the country on any given day), helping it keep
afloat, the grant has been turned into a stick to beat Muslims with.
No Muslim asked for it in the first place.
Muslims are now calling for global and national open bids: whoever
offers the cheapest tickets gets to fly away with 150,000 prize
passengers. Fair enough.
“If the Hajj subsidy is withdrawn, it won’t hurt us. If scholarship
are cut, that would,” Asaduddin Owaisi, Hyderabad MP from the All
India Majlis-eIttehadul Muslimeen party, told the Hindustan Times last
year.
There is a less obvious side to the Hajj subsidy. The subsidy itself
seems responsible for Muslim backwardness, given that it has enabled
governments to use it as a signature grant and avoid more basic
financial interventions.
However, the recognition that minorities can be predisposed to
experiencing disadvantages due to their numerical inferiority itself
has made planning and budgeting for them an integral part of most
developed countries.
Almost all of Europe and the US make special allocations of one type
or the other for their minorities.
Why do Indian Muslims need a helping hand?
The country’s Muslim population is 150 millions, making it the state
with the second-largest Muslim population, after Indonesia. Indian
Muslims experience serious disadvantages, low literacy and high
poverty rates.
Their literacy rates are well below the national average, while
poverty rates are only slightly higher than low-caste Hindus,
according to the November 2006 Sachar Committee report.
Muslims, mostly Sunnis, make up 13.4% of India’s population, yet hold
fewer than 5% of government posts and make up only 4% of
undergraduates in universities. The report also found that, despite
being self-employed at a far higher rate, Muslims trail other groups
in terms of access to credit.
Yet, they can influence elections, using their voting power to extract
concessions from parties who woo them.
Muslims are not uniformly disadvantaged. Those in south and west India
have been historically wealthier. In the north, Muslims were thrust
into abject poverty at once when their wealthier counterparts left for
Pakistan during the 1947 Partition.
Muslims in rural areas are less poor than in urban areas, where their
poverty rate of 38 percent is higher than any other population’s,
including low-caste Hindus.
Although no formal Muslim caste system exists, three groups of Indian
Muslims –ashraf, ajlaf, and arzal — indeed function as such. More
correctly, there is definitely a Muslim class system, if not a caste
system.
The ashrafs, thought to be of Arab ancestry, form the upper class
among Muslims, while the ajlafs are thought to be previously Hindus
who converted to Islam to escape the Hindu caste system. A third
group, the arzals, correlates to the lowest caste among Hindus.
The Sachar Report has provided exhaustive data on socio-economic
conditions of Muslims.
The Sachar report has been controversial, not just for highlighting
Muslim marginalisation but also because of its very mandate. Hindu
nationalists — led by the BJP — criticized the report, tainting it
with an old brush –- that of appeasement.
While it offers clear proof of Muslim marginalisation, there have been
debates about how to combat Muslim unemployment rates. The BJP is
averse to solutions focusing directly on Muslims but would prefer
general poverty alleviation.
All government outlays to pull a community out of backwardness can
look like appeasement, given the zeal for competing interests of
political leaders vying for power.
Has budgeting helped?
India’s 2010-11 budget has given 50% higher allocation to the minority
affairs ministry — up from Rs 1,740 crore to Rs 2,600 crore.
Cash flow to minorities — from bank loans to scholarships — peaked
during 2008-09, according to government data, as Muslims appeared to
be slowly overcoming a strong bias of banks in lending.
Public sector banks, which would turn down Muslim loan applicants
because they were considered “credit risk groups”, have disbursed a
staggering Rs 82,864 crore in loans to minorities during 2008-09.
Since the Reserve Bank has now turned its focus to 121 backward
minority districts with high Muslim population, as identified by the
minority affairs ministry, Muslims got a chunky pie of the credit
share.
Banks now have to compulsorily service Muslims in backward areas after
the Reserve Bank added minorities to its list of other priority
lending sectors, like agriculture and small-scale businesses in July
2007.
“We will be able to see the results shortly if not immediately,”
Planning Commission member Syeda Saiyidain Hameed, who heads the
minority sector, says.
Cash constraints are now easing, with banks achieving lending targets
set for minorities. In 2008-09, the Reserve Bank’s target was that 13%
of loans under priority sector lending should go to minorities and
banks were able to lend 12.4%. This was better than 2007-08, when the
target was 10.6% and actual sanctions 9.6%. Priority sector lending
accounts for 40 per cent of total loans, according to the federal
Reserve Bank of India norms.
Banks also opened 524 branches in minority concentration districts in
2009 and nearly 6-lakh minority students got scholarships. In 2008,
523 branches were set up.
The UPA government has earmarked a whopping Rs 7,000 crore for
minority welfare under the 11th Five Year Plan that concludes in 2012.
The government now plans to install national-level independent
monitors to track back how Rs 3,780 are being spent for minority
welfare under the “flagship multi-sectoral development programme”, in
which lawmakers will have a say for the first time.
The multi-sectoral programme, which helps set up anything from a
school to a water pump, applies to 90 districts countrywide where
minorities make up more than 25 per cent of the population and lag
behind significantly on crucial socio-economic parameters.
The government’s approach is such that creation of assets in these
districts should also benefit the majority communities as well. UP,
Assam and Bihar have the largest number of minority districts, with
21, 12 and 6 districts respectively.
These districts were selected on the basis of 10 indicators, ranging
from literacy to the number of inoculated children.
The government hopes evaluating schemes with a fine-toothed comb and
involving area MPs, an idea of minority affairs minister Salman
Khurshid, are moves that would customise the multi-sectoral scheme.
The government feels a quick appraisal is important to ensure rapid
implementation of schemes. “These national-level independent monitors
will report back two things: are schemes being implemented in the
right way and right place, according to Khrushid.
The scheme, in its second stage now, is also called being called a top-
up phase because money from the minority affairs will be now poured
into schemes of other ministries so that minorities benefit.
The Planning Commission is also evaluating massive spending on
minority welfare as it prepares for mid-term appraisal of the 11th
Five-Year Plan.
Planning Commission member Hameed is set to personally travel to five
regions for first-hand feedback from beneficiaries.
Lessons from Congressional Black Caucus
Some historic measures for minority welfare, including an exclusive
ministry, helped the Congress sail through the last general elections
for a second term in power.
However, Muslim lawmakers, whose numbers are dwindling over time, have
seldom used parliamentary mechanisms creatively to ensure Muslims get
a fair deal. A problem with Muslim leadership is that political
leadership has often overlapped with religious leadership.
Divided along sharp party lines, India’s Muslim lawmakers seldom get a
chance to work in unison. However, they could take a leaf out of the
Congressional Black Caucus.
The Caucus helped highlight the plight of US minorities with a two-
step process: by the congressional budget process called the Humphrey-
Hawkins debate and by moving alternate budget resolutions.
The struggle of minorities in the US helped them integrate into
society and as their clout grew, Congress became more responsive to
their needs. Geographical concentrations of some minorities in the US
have led to their greater representation, though it is far behind
their share of the population.
In the 2001-2003 Congress, for instance, African-Americans comprised
12 percent of the population, but just 8.3% of the House members;
Hispanics made up 13 % of the population and just 4.4 % of the House;
and women represented 51 % of the population but just 13.6% of the
House, and 13% of the Senate.
America’s annual budget project to thrash out budgetary solutions to
address backwardness of minorities is a lesson for both Indian
minority lawmakers and those opposed to minority-specific solutions,
like the BJP.
A beginning has been made but just a fraction achieved. After all,
every change for the better begins with a small minority.
(9 votes, average: 4.11 out of 5)
Posted by Zia Haq on Sunday, February 28, 2010 at 11:09 pm
102 Responses to “Budgeting for minorities”
sanjeev says:
March 1, 2010 at 1:40 am
Mullah Zia
“The Centre underwrites a part of the travel costs of the annual Hindu
pilgrimage to Kailash Mansarovar in Tibet, the abode of the Hindu god
Shiva ”
This is less of a pilgrimage and more of india’s strategic and
geopolitical game plan to counter the chinese arguments of Arunachal
being historically part of China. and more imporatantly a tradition
which has been part ofindian civilzation.
Further this is a trekking expedition and not any luxury trip by an
aeroplane.which your ilk makes at taxpayers money.
I hope brainwashed mullahs like you might be aware that govt of India
also promote trekking to high altitude areas…through Indian
Mountaineering Federation (IMF). I myself has been part of some IMF
funded trekking expeditions to himalayas.
So in that way its not any exclusive and out of turn activity.
Further this yatra is open to all Indian citizens cutting across
religious lines…but Haj is not.
So don’t show your ignorance…rather write something about islamophobia
Mitra Reply:
March 1st, 2010 at 11:10 am
Hey Sanjeev,
Whatever excuses and arguments you come up with, it is a fact that
Govt. of India subsidizes a Hindu pilgrimage just as it does for
Mulsims and Christians. Nowhere does the Govt. say they do it for
strategic reasons- and it is a rather absurd argument. So cool down
and try to control your hatred. Aren’t you guys always shouting about
how tolerant Hindus and Hinduism are? There is no way to infer that
from your churlish behavior! Learn to give respect to people and
debate like a civilized educated man- even when you keep making stupid
arguments. Jai Hind!
RE Reply:
March 6th, 2010 at 3:30 pm
How can you expect an uncivilized Hindu terrorist to react when
confronted with facts? All I’ve seen on this blog, is people preaching
hatred and violence bypassing all logic and sense. None of their
comments make sense and I repeat NONE. But rhetoric is what helps them
feel superior, else they are cowed down by the uneducated minority so
easily. Let them have the comfort of the rhetoric and shameless
ignorance. Ignorance is bliss ya know?
RE Reply:
March 6th, 2010 at 3:45 pm
@Pandit sanjeev
“The Centre underwrites a part of the travel costs of the annual Hindu
pilgrimage to Kailash Mansarovar in Tibet, the abode of the Hindu god
Shiva ” ~~~> FACT
“This is less of a pilgrimage and more of india’s strategic and
geopolitical game plan to counter the chinese arguments of Arunachal
being historically part of China” ~~~~>FICTION …
“…and more imporatantly a tradition which has been part ofindian
civilzation” ~~~> Is that all you think about your own culture and
religion? Hang your head in shame. I pity you.
“Further this is a trekking expedition and not any luxury trip by an
aeroplane.which your ilk makes at taxpayers money.”
Does that make it a FREE expedition? The Government employs choppers
for your “safety” in the mountains, massive policing arrangements for
the crowd and at times they even arrange for fake shivlings (LMAO)
when you “God” fails to appear Will you please tell me who funds
these costs? IMO It is the taxpayers money and that includes Muslims
of this country. If you are so averse to Muslims, why don’t you shun
government spending? Lets just take an example – India’s third largest
software exporter Wipro is held by a Muslim billionaire. Over a lakh
of people are employed by the company and they pay huge taxes to this
government every year. Why don’t you ask your Hindu brethren to stop
taking up jobs in Wipro and making a living out of it? The tax they
pay is also funded by that very same Muslim -held company. Do you need
more examples? OK have you heard of the companies – Cipla, Wockhardt ,
Himalaya heath Care are only to name a few of them. What about the
crores of taxes, the “Khans’ of Bollywood pay to this Government and
the revenue that their movies generate directly or indirectly ( though
people employed and associated with the movies) Why would you like to
go on a “holy” trip on Muslim money? Should’nt you shun the Government
subsidy?
“I hope brainwashed mullahs like you might be aware that govt of India
also promote trekking to high altitude areas…through Indian
Mountaineering Federation (IMF). I myself has been part of some IMF
funded trekking expeditions to himalayas. So in that way its not any
exclusive and out f turn activity.”
So ? Doesn’t make sense honey! Try harder next time and come up with
some logic, not brain-dead arguments.
“Further this yatra is open to all Indian citizens cutting across
religious lines…but Haj is not.”
LMAO I pity you now!!
“So don’t show your ignorance…rather write something about
islamophobia”
Internet Hindus have time and again proudly proved their blissful
ignorance. I’m glad you are just another one of them!
raman says:
March 1, 2010 at 8:24 am
So, they need special budget for them , they need special care from
government otherwise they warn that some of them will turn into
terrorist or help them…..what kind of logic is this………
RE Reply:
March 6th, 2010 at 3:53 pm
No one has argued that they will turn into terrorists if the
government doesn’t provide them with a separate budget. After all what
have all the subsequent governments done over all these years? They
have only pushed the minorities ( read Muslims ) to impoverishment and
under-representation without a voice. Anyone who dares speak for
Muslims is labeled a traitor or at best a supporter of Muslim League.
Anything that anyone even promises for Muslims ( let alone fulfill
them) is termed as Muslim Appeasement. How wonderfully naive.
Muslims have lived in ghettos with discrimination over the years in
this country and we don’t need any one to make nonsense announcements
for Muslims. We have lived with deprivation and can survive in our own
mumbling ways.
RE Reply:
March 6th, 2010 at 3:57 pm
Oh BTW look what poverty has done to people in the rural areas. Will
you dare call the Maoists terrorists and traitors? The argument
against it is that they are our very own civilians although they can
murder people at will,kill innocents, behead people they hate and rape
and maim women. So what? after all they are Hindu civilians, they’ve
got every right to be protected in this country. A Muslim on the other
hand is picked up by the police at random without evidence or even
gunned down in cold blood is quickly labeled a terrorist by everyone.
Why make a distinction?
raman Reply:
March 8th, 2010 at 12:51 am
Did I say I sympathize with Maoists, do not assume things…..
RE Reply:
March 9th, 2010 at 3:07 am
No, I never said that. I am only putting across my point.
Ashish Reply:
March 8th, 2010 at 3:37 pm
Dear RE,
the Maoists do not fight on religious grounds; the Indian state’s
“war” against them is also “secular”.
There is tremendous amount of blood-letting going on in the names of
protecting the rights of the economic underprivileged and the rights
of the state. I have not heard any Maoist (or any CPIML member) make
any invocation to religion.
I am not sure why you think the State treats the Maoists as “Hindu
civilians”. Care to explain?
SP Reply:
March 9th, 2010 at 3:34 am
Maoists justify terror as a means of pursuing their goal of
overthrowing the Indian state just because they are poor and the
deprived citizens of this country? Common a very sizable population of
this country is below the poverty line. But the Government won’t fight
a war against them because these ‘Adivasis’ happen to be our ‘own’
people although they can engage the armed forces of this
coutry,massacre them at will, abduct ,kill and behead people at will.
A 20 something Muslim guy on the other hand is picked up at random/
even better shot in broad daylight, by the police and branded a
terrorist without even a shred of evidence The News channels hail the
police and the government and all we read is “20 something Islamic
Terrorist has been nabbed who has confessed to all the bombings that
ever happened in the country over the last 10 years”. How lame is
that!
Why is there such a discrimination in the treatment between the two? A
terrorist is a terrorist! Be it a Maoist or a certain Pragya Singh
Devi. Why does the mainstream political party come up in defense of
HINDU terror accused or label any muslim ACCUSED to be a terrorist?
The same goes with the Maoists – the Government won’t wage a war
against them just because they happen to be Hindus.
Anyone who challenges the state should be an enemy of the
state .Unfortunately that is not true for the Hindus of this country.
They can get away with mass orchestrated murders and live under state
protection. (‘92 ‘02 anyone?) And so is the case with the Maoists.
They are Hindus and by default saintly and hence cannot be treated as
terrorists.
Ashish Reply:
March 10th, 2010 at 12:46 pm
@SP
I will again quote from my post “there is a tremendous amount of
bloodletting going on in the names of protecting the rights of the
economic underprivileged and the rights of the state.” I think I make
it clear that Maoists are fighting only in the name of protecting the
rights of the underprivileged.
And, what gives you the idea that the Government is not fighting them?
We can differ on whether it is a “war” or not. But the human rights
activists will certainly not agree with you that the government is
going easy on the Maoists. Unless of course you say that the likes of
Arundhati Roy are basically Hindu zealots and speak for the Maoists
only because they are Hindus.
Let me quote from your reply:
“A 20 something Muslim guy on the other hand is picked up at random/
even better shot in broad daylight, by the police and branded a
terrorist without even a shred of evidence The News channels hail the
police and the government and all we read is “20 something Islamic
Terrorist has been nabbed who has confessed to all the bombings that
ever happened in the country over the last 10 years”. How lame is
that!”
You know, this seems to be straight from the alleged situation in the
North-East; where the “war” between the state and the ultras have
resulted in several cases of human rights abuses that should be the
concern of any civilized society. The state of Manipur is a case in
point. May I however point out that the affected populace is not
Muslim in Manipur.
The Indian state is not perfect; far from it. Nor is the Indian
society. But, it is a worthwhile experiment is creating a multi-hued
culture. Thanks to our founding fathers and thanks to the economic
progress unleashed in the last 20 years, the benefits of modern living
are reaching many. If you argue that Muslims face systematic and
systemic discrimination, then you must be prepared to look within and
ask why is it that no other religion in India, including the Sikhs
(even after 1984) have a problem sharing space and prospering in this
country.
Looking at everything through the religious prism makes for noisy
debates but, makes you hostage to “benefactors” like Mamata Banerjee
and Laloo Yadav.
Mitra says:
March 1, 2010 at 11:05 am
Very interesting and informative discussion! Hope you keep monitoring
how well the minority welfare schemes are progressing- this is really
important. It is good we have a decent, honest man Salman Khursheed as
the Minister- politicians like him are relatively rare in India.
sanjeev Reply:
March 1st, 2010 at 5:43 pm
@ Mitra
I can expect such sort of logic from naxal sympathisers like you….
Hope you forgot your bengali ilk got kicked by these so called
discriminated lots on 16 july 1946 (direct action day ).
Wait for some more decades another Pakistan will be demanded from your
home state. The demand will arise from your so called secular and left
ruled state.
Or else i can imagine you have admitted to dhimmi status or else burqa
clad.
Rajeev Reply:
March 2nd, 2010 at 8:05 am
This guy is muslim with hindu last name..just like Bhowmik (saba naqvi
bhaowmik).
sanjeev Reply:
March 2nd, 2010 at 1:54 pm
@ Rajeev
I M sure she is a girl and so brainwashed by so called leftist of
Students Federation of India (SFI).
She haven’t been able to come out of the vote bank politics of naxal
sypmathizers of JNU.
Mitra Reply:
March 4th, 2010 at 5:20 pm
I am Hindu and I am not a woman. I won’t give you my first name as I
teach in an university and I have a website- I am afraid Hindu
nationalist vandals will try to bother me. I am not a Naxal
sympathizer and thats not what we are discussing. The Naxals are left-
wing extremists and you guys are right-wing extremists- every
patriotic Indian should condemn both equally. The day you guys will
learn to make an actual argument instead of spewing vile hatred and
prejudice, I will be happy to have a discussion.
sanjeev Reply:
March 4th, 2010 at 5:36 pm
@ Mitra
It is you who started labelling someone as sangh parivar or bajrang
bal member
Its welcome that you want positive debate..
Btw other people like me also work for govt organizations.
Nobody has time to bother except those with whom you empathise…hope
you remember the recent karnataka episode over Taslima nasreen article
episode. who resorted to rioting ?
RE Reply:
March 6th, 2010 at 4:13 pm
@Sanjeev pandit.
1. I hope you are not a disgruntled shudra who is not even allowed to
enter the temple by The Brahmins or you did not marry in the same
gotra and were hounded by your own goons. You sound very irked and
disgruntled so can I assume that someone in your family decided to
kill a female child or maybe your wife does not want to put on a
ghoonghat? Is there any reason why you are so pissed off with life?
2. Regarding rioting in Karnataka :
Source : http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8544657.stm
“Police say Hindu groups joined the unrest in both places after
Muslims took to the streets. About 50 arrests have been made in
connection with the violence. ”
Muslims taking to streets to voice protest against something does not
mean they were rioting but as usual, people don’t have the guts to
accept the truth in this country. I am sure they did not pull you out
of you house and mob you down like the goons at RSS do under state
protection. Every citizen has the legitimate right to voice his/her
opinion but the fact of the matter is Hindu cowards started a riot.
Television images on “Times Now” , a clearly pro- hindutva ,pro- BJP ,
pro- right wing channel showed images of people with ORANGE flags with
“OM” inscribed on them. Now I can bet they were not Muslims. Secondly,
the Ram Sene called a bandh the very next day! WOW how did the entire
protest affect those cowards? Karnataka is BJP ruled so people have
the liberty to start a riot and get away with it just like Gujarat.
The Muslims are the ones who will be labeled terrorists any which way.
At least have the guts to accept the truth in public MORON
perpetual.dilettante says:
March 1, 2010 at 2:29 pm
Since you cite the government subsidies for the pilgrimage to Kailash
Mansorovar as a point to counter the annual Haj subsidies, numbers
around what the total outlay for the project is would have been
interesting for a fair comparison. Do not quite agree with your point
that the Muslims had not asked for the subsidies. The fact remains
that there were demands from certain quarters from within the
community for this step. Obviously the point whether or not they
represented the true sentiments of the community can well be debated.
However, your point around the government not subsidizing religious
pursuits is well taken. It needs to be applied irrespective of
religious affiliations of the vote banks, pressure groups, etc.
However, there is a bigger question here around the value of
affirmative action, specially in context of religious segments. That
is a point worth debating as well
Gopi Thomas says:
March 1, 2010 at 2:35 pm
If money would have solved Muslim “backwardness” , countries like KSA
would be producing qualified engineers and journalists and teachers
leave alone world class scientists. They recently opened a “world
class” university; minister E Ahmed represented India in the
inauguration ceremony – 80% of the student body was foreign students
whom they had ‘bought” with lucrative scholarships. A student from
Minnesota stated that he will have to spend $20,000 in a state Univ in
Minnesota; now he gets paid $20,000 affter all the expenses; he did
not know how long he could last there in KSA because the public
outside the walls of the Univ do not want a Univ there.
Why is Pakistan so backward with madrasites killing left and right,
with nosystem to speak of other than a rot corrupt military system,
if, as the author says “elite’ Muslims migrated to Pakistan.
Hyderabad (Telengana) was under Nizam rule for yearsa nd years. Why
are Muslims educationally so backward there?
Why iin Kerala they are still backward educationally (although they
are significantly better compared to all India Muslim average)? And a
smaller minority there, Christians, excelled in education,
industriousness, contributions..
The author talks about bank loans. Muslims are promoting “Islamic
Bank” as the right way of banking. I have seen Muslim students being
advised on some of their “exclusive” sites not to seek student loan,
and to take lower level job rather than pursuing higher studies with
student loans.
We have to bring all up to participate in a vibrant, growing India.
Money, if at all, is only a very small part of the equation. It is
attitudes, entrenched belief systems, uncompromising stickiness to a
set of rules formed in 650 when conditions were different, learning
Arabic (instead of English) etc etc. If these do not change, whatever
money is allocated, we will still have this dialogue of backwardness
fifty years from now, 100 years from now.
RE Reply:
March 6th, 2010 at 4:17 pm
Your arguments are best very naive and you obviously know that. If you
still need an explanation, I’m ready to debate
sanjeev says:
March 1, 2010 at 5:55 pm
@ Gopi
Govt should resort to following Measures for development of muslims
1. Sharia laws
2. Islamic banking
3 Education only through madrasa: this should include courses on
geography and hisory of saudi arabia, science based on quran, arabic
language
4. Compulsory pilgrimage for all muslims to Haj
5. Freedom to kill as many as infidels as they wish so that they can
achieve ultimate aim: jannat with hooris
I think then they can have proper development of their personality as
well as material progress
Ziauddin Shafi says:
March 1, 2010 at 6:57 pm
Muslims of Hyderabad were never backward during the Nizam’s rule.
Since the last 30 years or so, the criminal nexus between MIM and the
Congress, who treat the Hyderabadi Muslims as their vote bank, have
deliberately worked against the education of Muslims in the city. So
much so that government schols functioning there do not have teaching
staff, water, electricity and toilets – forcing poor students to drop
out. Government-funded Urdu medium schools are in the worst possible
conditions – unbelievable is the word. Despite all these Muslim
traitors and “secular congress” traitors, the Muslims of Hyderabad and
Telangana are struggling to find their feet. The northern Indian
Muslims are comparatively better off – they have leaders like Salman
Khursheed and Sayyida who are sincere, honest and hard-working. Hope
they also come down to Telangana & Hderabad to look into the affairs
here.
Shoeb K Reply:
March 1st, 2010 at 11:19 pm
@Shafi
Are you implying that there was a “conspiracy” to deprive Hyderabad
Muslim students of education? Are you saying that Muslims in Hyd were
highly educated during Nizam rule and 30 years after independence, and
then due to misadministration or stupidity or conspiracy of leaders,
the education started going down???
How do other people (including the so called most backward DAaits
among us) get educated? Sam Pitroda, the telecom architect of India,
came from a Dalit background. Modern india has lakhs of stories like
that.
You may be right that some Muslim eladers and congress leaders
coluded. At the end of the day, our community has to look into
ourselves — are we doing right? Are we giving emphasis to education,
like other communities are giving? Or, are we satisfied iwth menial
trading jobs? Do w e want our daughters get educated and working and
standing on their feet? Do we give emphasis to readinga nd writing (at
a basic level as well as at a literary level)? Arent most of our
people victims of mullahs and maulavis, this way or no way? Do many of
us really interact with otehr religious members in an intimate way?
Unless we sort out these, we will always be blaming some others and
not doing the right thing.
Ashish Reply:
March 2nd, 2010 at 3:50 pm
@ Shoeb K,
till today I did not know that Sam Pitroda came from a Dalit family; I
suspect very few others on this blog did either.
The great thing is, we don’t know and we don’t care. It is enough for
us that Sam Pitroda is what he is, a visionary with the gumption to
get things done.
Is Azim Premji a Muslim? Well, yes. Is he an example? Of course. Is he
an example only for Muslims?
” Modern india has lakhs of stories like that.” .. yes, and thank you
for making this simple statement.
Let’s worry about evolving a “post-religious” identity. We must.
The questions you raise are not limited to Muslims; I think the
Muslims as a community can benefit by making common cause with the
poor Hindus/ Jains/ Christians and demand that the government deliver
on education, women’s rights and childrens’ health and nutrition. Of
course, the community must play its part in ensuring that religion is
quoted as an argument to stymie those initiatives.
@Ziauddin Shafi I think you are not informed about the sorry state of
affairs in the northern part of the country. The lack of leadership
that you talk about, is even more pronounced in North and it shows up
in all the indices.
UI Reply:
March 6th, 2010 at 4:37 pm
@Shoeb K Reply:
“Are you implying that there was a “conspiracy” to deprive Hyderabad
Muslim students of education? ”
Why only in Hyderabad, look at the vitriol everyone spewed when there
was a proposal to set up a branch of AMU in Murshidabad, West Bengal.
AMU may not be an Oxford but education surely will help the most
deprived and the backward. Do you think it was fair to unnecessarily
criticize the setting up of a branch of AMU? You know what, you need
to get out of you comfort zone to see what people have done to Muslims
in this country. I am an engineer and I’ve seen the nasty face of
educators at every stage of my school/university. I was always singled
out because I was the only Muslim in the class who topped exams year
after year. It is exactly things like these that make people cringe
and say that they do. Accept the fact that there has been a targetted
marginalization of Muslim in this country
“How do other people (including the so called most backward DAaits
among us) get educated? Sam Pitroda, the telecom architect of India,
came from a Dalit background. Modern india has lakhs of stories like
that.”
Have you ever heard of something called reservations? When the most un-
deserving candidates are given preferences in places that matter, what
do you expect in this country? Abolish all forms of reservations or
apply them equally for ALL economically backward sections of the
society. Only then you will get a clear idea of what the reality is.
“You may be right that some Muslim eladers and congress leaders
coluded. At the end of the day, our community has to look into
ourselves — are we doing right? Are we giving emphasis to education,
like other communities are giving? Or, are we satisfied iwth menial
trading jobs? Do w e want our daughters get educated and working and
standing on their feet? Do we give emphasis to readinga nd writing (at
a basic level as well as at a literary level)? Arent most of our
people victims of mullahs and maulavis, this way or no way? Do many of
us really interact with otehr religious members in an intimate way?
Unless we sort out these, we will always be blaming some others and
not doing the right thing.”
You must be kidding my dear! You seriously must be kidding me! Talking
about things from the comfort of your home with a laptop in front of
you is something different than the stark poverty and alienation that
Muslims face in this country. Get out of the 5-6 Urban cities for
God’s sake. You cannot expect anyone to get a decent education unless
he is lucky like me or you, when there is abject poverty , when people
can hardly make ends meet if at all. I’ve seen most Muslims living in
ghettos even in so called urban cities where there is hardly a decent
school in the vicinity and you talk about education? Have you ever
wondered why Muslims are discriminated when it comes to getting a
rented house in a Hindu locality?
You talk about the status of women in our society( are you seriously a
Muslim or just using a Muslim name? )
“Do w e want our daughters get educated and working and standing on
their feet?”
Seriously? Any and every educated family that I know of and some very
poor families insist on their daughters going to school to get an
education. Esp when it comes to urban areas, people are more open to
allowing women to work. You seriously must be kidding me or you are
very detached from the society !!
“Arent most of our people victims of mullahs and maulavis, this way or
no way?”
Again you are making sweeping generalizations.
“Do many of us really interact with otehr religious members in an
intimate way?”
What do you mean by an Intimate way? Of course where the majority are
people from other communities, you mingle with them , at school , at
work , in your neighborhood. Living in ghettos does not mean that you
never interact with anyone!
A Banerjee says:
March 1, 2010 at 8:50 pm
The biggest enemy of the muslim community is the muslim himself. There
is an intersting article comparing muslims and jews. Although jews
consist of only 0.02 % of the world’s population, they have won 130
Nobel Prizes. Muslims are 20% of the world’s population, but have won
only 7 Nobels. I think that Muslims must stop this tirade of being
‘minorities’ and start working for themselves.
What has number to do with progress? If that be so the case then how
doyou explain the parsis who are doing so well for themselves?
The trouble with Mr Zia and other ’secular’ people is that they waste
their time and energy (please see that I am not mentioning ‘brains’)
brooding over some conspiracy theory or some ’sachar’ report instead
of using their time productively. This imacts the minds of young and
gullible muslim youth who start thinking that the entire nation is
against them.
Their was a very nice ad campaign by Idea in which Abhishek Bachhan
says that their will be no community, only mobile numbers. That’s the
way it should be…..
UI Reply:
March 6th, 2010 at 4:38 pm
BS
Anil Kumar says:
March 1, 2010 at 10:04 pm
All the religious pilgrimage subsisdy given to non-muslim you have
rehashed is the progeny of haz subsidy.> So muichy noise was made that
various state govts hand have bene forced..
No hindu no chrstian wnats thatsubsisdy only muslims are the one who
always need crutch for anything and everything..
They insisst that they will nto join mainstream education but they
must eb given job..
State of those hindus who confine themselves withitn the scriptute
study are not different we don;t see them cribbing..
If you want job start learnign physics chemistry math those Quran and
hadith reading is nto going to give you job..
RE Reply:
March 6th, 2010 at 4:39 pm
“No hindu no chrstian wnats thatsubsisdy only muslims are the one who
always need crutch for anything and everything..
They insisst that they will nto join mainstream education but they
must eb given job..”
BS
Raju Kurien says:
March 2, 2010 at 6:51 am
The problem with Muslims is that they do not have a proper perspective
or they refuse to accept the reality. For example, This Javed Naqvi, a
reporter for DAwn, (a Pakistani based newspaper) always writes about
how bad it is for Muslims in india; how the goovernment goes on
destroying Muslims.. This guy is a Pakistani, living in and enjoying
Delhi, and he is always venomous about India– May be it is jealousy………
Muslims acn be a “suppressed moinority” (as they think) or an
aggressive contributor to national progress; they have to make that
choice..Government can go on pouring tax payers’ money for the so-
called upliftment; but the desire for upliftment and work towards
upliftment has to come from muslims themselves,a nd not througha ny
government programs.
sanjeev Reply:
March 2nd, 2010 at 2:04 pm
@ Raju
This so called peace activist Javed Naqv is no less than Taliban. I
don’t know whether he is Indian national ?
Regarding the much admired masiha of muslims Justice Rajendra sachar’s
credentials…let me highlight one of high ideological fact : He is so
called human right and civil rights activists of Arundhati Roy gang.
We can seriously doubt his credentials as a judge of supreme court or
distinguished jurist. I thibk this sachar committee is all a game plan
of congress left combine.
Although i personally support the govt should do efforts to educate
and elevate living standard of all deprived citizens irrespective of
minority or majority.
But why only the special emphasis on muslims ?
Why can’t they start some programme for all poor people of india and
allocate separate budget targets for this group ?
RE Reply:
March 6th, 2010 at 4:40 pm
Now comes conspiracy theory LMAO
shiuli says:
March 2, 2010 at 2:47 pm
Budgeting for minorities is a much required factor, coz if the gov’t
does not we have big brain drain like MF Husain, escaping to Qatar,
taking Citizen-ship there. We have violent clashes over Taslima
Nasreen’s outcry; also The Great Khan who has already been awarded
Dato-ship in Malaysia, by calling Pakistan, Our Friendly Neighbour,
may condemn Indian Citizenship one fine day.
RE Reply:
March 6th, 2010 at 4:41 pm
BS
ramesh says:
March 2, 2010 at 3:36 pm
What is holding back the muslims, is their literalism in
religion ,which is evident in all their aspects.Why arent the Parsees,
christians or sikh held back.Because they have opend their minds.
Muslims consider everyone else as jews only, their born enemy.They
should see the broader sense of the message.
RE Reply:
March 6th, 2010 at 4:42 pm
Because all the hatred,vile and discrimination is directed towards the
Muslims , not towards the Parsees , Christians and Sikhs
S Singh Reply:
March 8th, 2010 at 11:41 pm
So, there is no animosity to anybody except Muslims.. Could it be that
something is wrong with Muslism?
Why do Muslims have problem everywhere? Be Philippines, thailand, US,
UK, germanty. denmark, Switzerland — why even in the so called Islamic
countries ((OIC)? Oh why!
SP Reply:
March 9th, 2010 at 3:36 am
The Problem is that you have become so ignorant that you cannot
comprehend History or Geography or Geo-Politics OR probably you don’t
wish to. At least don’t sound such a moron on the internet.
Ashish Reply:
March 9th, 2010 at 12:07 am
@RE
“Because all the hatred,vile and discrimination is directed towards
the Muslims , not towards the Parsees , Christians and Sikhs”
poor souls! Muslims! No one loves them! Boo, hoo, hoo!
Rajeev says:
March 2, 2010 at 10:35 pm
I think instead of budgeting for minority (read MUSLIMS, MUSLIMS and
MUSLIMS), why don’t we send them to their land which we allocated for
them in 1947. The pakistan was meant for muslims of south asia. If you
muslims think, you are not getting fair deal, migrate to the land that
was created for giving muslims fair deal.
Jinnah also demanded same kind of things before partition to safegaurd
the interests of muslims. The then-congress decided not to give in to
Jinnah’s loony demands and agreed for partition. Now after 62 years,
we are being forced to agree to Jinnah’s demand or face terror ending
into another partition of country. How long can this blackmail go on?
Pl. show me a single country in the world where muslim minority has
outperformed other communities…None… Are all these non-muslims country
guilty of this or is the in the muslims gene to stay and ghetto and be
backward? Do you want Sachar to go in all those countries and then
produce a report implying that muslims are denied opportunities.
There is something very wrong with muslim mindset. They are
themseleves to blame for their misery. Why is that Hindus, jews,
chinese are doing so well in USA? Why is that non-muslims do better
than muslims in almost every country?
These muslims have to come out to their eternal victimhood syndrome.
L Mirza Reply:
March 3rd, 2010 at 12:12 am
@Rajeev
Many things you mention are right. For our country to propel, we need
to bring all into the equation. Youa re absolutely right that the
backwardness of msulims can eb squarely attributed to teh community
itself -its religiosu leaders, political leaders etce tc. A
fundamental aspect of Islam as oppsoed to various other “movements” ,
is that the role of the individual or individuality is suppressed;
hence no major innovations, initiatives, pathbreaking inventions,
methosds etc etc.
Government money will do only little. The mindset has to eb changed;
it ahs to come from within; and lot of forces work against that. It is
a real problem; as Zia mentioned in an earlier blog, muslims have to
handle it themselves.. They should know that the world would not wait
for this, and they will be left further behind if they do not acvt.
The sorry situation is that whether we like it or not, we have to
somehow solve this…
RE Reply:
March 6th, 2010 at 4:43 pm
Why don’t you leave this country instead if you hate the people living
in this country? Or is is that you have no place on this earth to call
a Hindu State? haha India is NOT a Hindu country. If you cannot live
here, go and find a place for yourself
Rajeev says:
March 2, 2010 at 10:39 pm
The Sachar report is not an extensive survey but a SAMPLE survey. We
have all seen how surveys have been proved wrong time and again.
The need of the hour for muslims is to shun excessive religiousity,
waste less time curing non-muslims and concentrate on education
followed by search for jobs. You can not be employed on high position
(IPS, IAS, Army etc.) till you get proper education. Even a police
constable in maharashtra police is graduate.
sanjeev Reply:
March 3rd, 2010 at 6:00 pm
@ Rajeev
I seriously doubt credentials of Rajendra sachar. he is an
ideologically indoctrinated person and not neutral, unbiased
researcher.
Just google his name..he has association with People’s Union for Civil
Liberties (PUCL)
In the recently arrested Kobad ghandy case his organisation has been
mentioned by delhi police among the naxal sympathisers.
I have personally attended many of the debates and discussions
frequented by this gang of naxal sympathisers like Gautam Navlakha,
Achin Vinayak, DSU, etc. their views clealry state that they are
chinese protege and they aim to bring china type revolution in india.
I seriously doubt how can such a person was appointed chairman of such
a committee.
RE Reply:
March 6th, 2010 at 4:44 pm
You need some money for education which they have been deprived of
over the years
Shoeb K Reply:
March 6th, 2010 at 6:20 pm
RE
So you are saying that somehow government “deprived ” them of
education, and now have to give them money for education??
Do you believe that our people (I assume you are a muslim) give utmost
importance to education like other commun ities? Even Baniya children
grow up reciting “vidya dhan sarv dhanal pradhan”.. What is our
children taught in Madrasi??
RE Reply:
March 9th, 2010 at 4:05 am
No one is begging for alms here. It’s only the Hindus who beg for
Money & Jobs and you will keep begging for your lives. Don’t worry the
Government won’t take away your reservations any soon. You can
obviously beg for even more.
If you are going to tell me that ^%$^% like Mulayam Shi% and people
like him demand BS for Muslims, I pity you and your ignorance of the
reality of this country.
Secondly, you must be naive to think that people think in terms of
community when it comes to education. You must be so out of this world
my HINDU brother! (Using a Muslim name does not make you one) The fact
of the matter is, yes people want education for their children and the
fact of the matter is that a majority of the Muslim population in
India is living foot-to-mouth. I have grown up in a poor Muslim
neighborhood and you can bet a very good number of children went to
proper schools. They may not have been the DPS’s of this country but
yes everyone valued education.Economics is the major concern my dear,
not community based ignorance. When you cannot even earn Rs20 a day,
you cannot possibly dream of sending your child to a regular school.
I come from a Naxal affected place so you very well imagine the state
of affairs and to add to that I grew up in a Muslim neighborhood with
a couple of Madarsas. I can tell you, even people who have studied in
these very madarsas completed their education and then took up
respectable and decent government jobs ,quite unlike your Hindu naxal
brothers just 40-50 kms away from my place. A few of us were lucky
ones who grew up in middle class families, who could study in English
medium schools and landed up with jobs with MNCs. Unfortunately most
are not so lucky. You know what, either you have never seen poverty in
and around you so it’s very comfortable to pass sweeping remarks or
you are just another prejudiced and ignorant Hindu on the internet. If
you are the former (n I doubt it ) all I would ask you is to leave the
comfort of your house to visit a Madarsa .If you are the later, I can
only pity you
sanjeev says:
March 3, 2010 at 5:51 pm
@ Rajeev
Here is an interesting article from Tavleen Singh (who i think can’t
be labelled as sangh parivar member as she happens to be a sikh and
married to muslim
http://www.indianexpress.com/storyOld.php?storyId=59288
I hope ignorant persons like mitra and other so called secularists
accept the true reality after going through this article or else they
will label Tavleen as sanghi.
sanjeev
Rajeev says:
March 4, 2010 at 2:45 am
Sanjeev,
Did you compare debate done on NDTV/CNN-IBN on MF Hussain and Taslima
Nasreen? It exposed the hypocrisy of Indian secualrism. I could not
control my laughter listening to arguements from Shabnam hashmi.
I have come to the conclusion that soft terrorist (ideological) from
muslim community are oxygen for all the terror activities in the
world. These are the people who should be arrested and may be
eliminated Isarael style.
RE Reply:
March 6th, 2010 at 4:45 pm
Yes people like you must be singled out Israeli style
[Reply]
sanjeev says:
March 4, 2010 at 5:43 pm
Here is another article exposing the hypocrisy of the so called
secular gang of india:
Its by Pratap Bhanu Mehta, from centre for policy research, new delhi
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/freedoms-our-defence/586662/
sanjeev says:
March 4, 2010 at 5:51 pm
@ Rajeev
sorry rajeev,
i have given up watching news on these sensationlist channels..i only
watch DD news or r news on FM gold radio.
i know this Indian secularism is a biggest joke in the world
Anything can happen in india in the name of secularism and freedom of
speech for the sake of minority (read muslim )
RE Reply:
March 6th, 2010 at 4:46 pm
Two Losers in this country Pandit Rajeev and Pandit Sanjeev have got
HT Blog as the only place to vent their frustration. Is it something
else?
Ashish says:
March 6, 2010 at 11:24 am
After all these serious comments, I think we all need a comic break..
quoting from an email just received:
A public school teacher was arrested today at John F. Kennedy
International Airport as he attempted to board a flight while in
possession of a ruler, a protractor, a compass, a slide-rule and a
calculator.
At a morning press conference, the Attorney General said he believes
the man is a member of the notorious Al-Gebra movement. He did not
identify the man, who has been charged by the FBI with carrying
weapons of maths instruction.
“Al-Gebra is a problem for us”, the Attorney General said. “They
derive solutions by means and extremes, and sometimes go off on
tangents in search of absolute values. They use secret code names like
‘X’ and ‘Y’ and refer to themselves as ‘unknowns’, but we have
determined that they belong to a common denominator of the axis of
medieval with co-ordinates in every country.
As the Greek philanderer Isosceles used to say, “There are 3 sides to
every triangle”.
When asked to comment on the arrest, President Obama said, “If God had
wanted us to have better weapons of maths instruction, he would have
given us more fingers and toes.’
White House aides told reporters they could not recall a more
intelligent or profound statement by the President. It is believed
that the Nobel Prize for Physics will follow.
Paritosh Reply:
March 6th, 2010 at 12:03 pm
ha ha ha ha . nice!!!
sanjeev says:
March 6, 2010 at 11:56 am
hilarious !!!
SKS Mumbai says:
March 6, 2010 at 1:44 pm
Why Physics?
They don’t award nobles for Maths or Philosophy? Time they did
Gopi Thomas Reply:
March 6th, 2010 at 5:37 pm
@SKS
And these must be reserved for Muslims because of the historical
sidelining Westerners have done to them..
So far Muslims have not stated theat the nobels Jews received were
undeserving; so you have to give them credit!
Ashish says:
March 6, 2010 at 2:39 pm
when they run out of existing Nobels; one for each year Obama is in
office..
There is probably no rule against multiple Nobel awards for multiple
disciplines in the same year to the same person; while so far such a
rule would have been largely academic, I think with Obama, this rule
will soon be tested.
Literature Nobel is his for the taking .. with all the fiction in his
speeches (even if he has to share the Nobel with his speechwriters)..
Raju Kurien says:
March 6, 2010 at 10:02 pm
Mosab hasan Yousef, an ex Hamas leader, who later became a Mosad spy,
and converted to Christianity, has written a book titled “Son of
Hamas”. Wall Street journal interviewed him on his opinions,
perspectives….His father is also a leader of Hamas..
Do you consider your father as a fanatic? “he is not a fanatic; he is
a very moderate, logical person. What matters is not whether my father
is fanatic or not; he is doing the will of a fanatic God. It does not
mind whether he is a terrorist or a traditional muslim. At the end of
the day a traditional Muslim is doing the will of a fanatic,
fundamentalist, terrorist God. I know this is harsh to say. Most
governments avoid this subject..
“the problem is not in Muslims. the problem is with their God. They
need to be liberated from their God. He is the biggest enemy. It has
been 1400 years they have been lied to.
SKS Mumbai says:
March 7, 2010 at 10:08 am
So ‘Government funded religious travel’ (let’s call it GFRT) isn’t
‘Unique’ but only Haj subsidy has been targeted! So unfair!
Research does help, even if, of ‘directed’ kind, to pick facts, as
might be necessary for the ‘conclusion’ one has chosen to present. But
’secular’ journalism, at least here in India, is easier than that. For
facts aren’t needed nor is their careful selection and for those on
the cutting edge of secular journalism, fact invention is routine.
Certainly, by those standards, Mr Zia is struggling.
To come up with ‘govt funded religious travel’ or GFRT for questioning
the criticism of Haj subsidy, suggests that research was involved.
Instead of limiting himself to any one of either GFRT or subsidy, he
uses both and implied smartly, that only Haj subsidy is criticized,
without ever saying that both are/aren’t the same. But there may be
’small’ differences between the two:
Subsidy of course is subsidy.
GFRT does not seem to be a well defined concept, but Mr Zia must be
referring to the costs involved in provision of various facilities and
services provided by Govt. for the pilgrims. These costs include a
part for the services rendered in India and another for outside India.
For e.g. in case of Kailash Mansarovar, these are free medical
inspection, security, escort cover, insurance cover and communication
links and 4 days acco. provided by Govt of Delhi (at Delhi) etc, most
of these within India. Then there is also a Rs 3250/pilgrim payment
made by Govt to Kumaon Mandal Vikas Nigam (KMVN) for arranging
boarding and lodging on the Indian side.
Indian side expenses for Haj, include cost of Haj houses, built in a
number of state capitals (including a capital cost for the facility,
often funded by the concerned state govt. There is a dedicated Haj
terminal at Delhi Airport (can’t say for others), again involving a
capital cost. I am not sure if medical tests, security etc is involved
or not. There is also a fully dedicated Haj department maintained by
Air India throughout the year.
For expenses outside India:
In case of Mansarovar, nothing much is known. Possibly, the escort,
security and medical facilities continue to be provided on the chinese
side as well. Interestingly, complaints regarding poor facilities on
Chinese side are brushed aside by MEA, saying Chinese want a revision
in the rates (last set in 1995) for better facilities.
Foreign component of Haj expenses: expenditure on a contingent of
seasonal local staff, supervisors, data entry operators, drivers and
messengers, appointed in SA, a contingent of more than 600 personnel
(incl. about 135 doctors, nurses and paramedics) on short-term
deputation to SA, hospital facilities (about 100 beds) at Makkah,
Madinah, medicines, ambulances, facilitation and coordination centres
at Jeddah, Makkah probably, Madinah also.
What is also interesting to note, is the kind of answers MEA gives for
questions raised in LS or RS:
1. Whenever there is a broad query (broad as in, about ’subsidy’ and
‘other facilities’) the answer, in case of Haj; includes a number for
subsidy and another for expenses, while for Mansarovar, it is only one
figure.
2. When there is a precise question such as: ‘ whether the Union
Government has been extending ’subsidy’ ( no mention of facilities)
for pilgrimage of Indians abroad’, the answer never goes beyond Haj
( e.g. LS Unstarred Question no 3086 http://meaindia.nic.in/parliament/ls/2006/08/23ls07.html)
3. When a specific question was asked : whether Govt
would also consider providing any subsidy on the lines of subsidy
being provided for Haj Pilgrimage, the smart state minister for MEA
repeats the same Rs 3250 story (of course never uses the word subsidy
for this) and concludes with : ‘Kailash Mansarovar Yatra and Haj are
essentially different so far as the number of pilgrims (not enough
devotees? ) , mode of travel and the nature of terrain are involved.
Therefore, there may not be a direct comparison between the two!
http://meaindia.nic.in/parliament/rs/2006/05/11rs27.htm
Thus for some ’strange’ reason, Govt. has consistently failed to apply
the word ‘Subsidy’ in case of Mansarovar costs. This could mean either
a ‘consistent error’ or most likely an accounting conspiracy designed
to discriminate against the poor minority, and worst of all, signed
off by CAG as well!
For the sharper but unfortunately oppressed beings, another ’small’
difference :
- the total amount paid for 2002, 03, 04 for Mansarovar was around Rs.
0.43 Crs (or Rs 43 lacs), while for HaJ 2007 and 2008, it was more
than Rs. 44.00 crs.
-Haj subsidy that Mr Zia shows at Rs 390 crs is over and above that.
Not just that, it seems that subsidy figures for Haj continue to be
presented as ‘provisional’ for last 4-5 years. (i.e. besides the
subsidy).
Mr Zia could have checked a bit of History as well, as he has so
carefully listed out the ‘proposed’ subsidy in Karnataka and the one
announced in AP a ‘couple’ of years ago.
Clearly then, there isn’t ANY VALID reason to target Haj subsidy
alone!! Except the Discriminatory approach, what say Zia?
SKS Mumbai says:
March 7, 2010 at 10:26 am
Can someone tell me whether, there is some difference between the
Kailash Mansarovar, Tibet (for which Govt ‘underwrites’ a part of the
cost, as indicated by Zia) and the Mansarovar, China (for which a
’subsidy’ is under consideration (as Zia says quoting media reports)
Ashish Reply:
March 10th, 2010 at 11:35 am
@SKS,
“Can someone tell me whether, there is some difference between the
Kailash Mansarovar, Tibet (for which Govt ‘underwrites’ a part of the
cost, as indicated by Zia) and the Mansarovar, China (for which a
’subsidy’ is under consideration (as Zia says quoting media reports)”
Only Zia can answer this.. but, on past performance, even if he deigns
to, it is likely to decry your tendency to split hairs..
SKS Mumbai Reply:
March 10th, 2010 at 2:15 pm
@Ashish
You mean just tendency?
That is all we do, apart from full time hate mongering, that is
Ashish Reply:
March 10th, 2010 at 4:03 pm
aha.. but, Mr Zia is a gentleman, not given to invectives
SKS Mumbai says:
March 7, 2010 at 11:34 am
‘Show me an economically underprivileged Hindu who will find fault
with government help to make a dip in the holy Ganges a reality? Or a
Muslim quibbling over a lifetime visit to Mecca, courtesy government
help?’
Now that is a profound question. Perhaps Zia can show us an
‘economically privileged’ Hindu who will find fault with government
help to make a trip to switzerland a reality, or riding a chauffeur
driven BMW (all expense paid) for that matter?
First of all what difference does it make, whether you are talking
about an economically privileged or underprivileged person here,
unless that bounty is meant for reducing that economic gap?
(BTW, I am not sure if Haj susbsidy is only for underpriveleged ones,
and even if, it is, the validity of above question does not change)
Secondly, on what basis does a secular Government decide that my all-
expense trip to swiss alps, is spiritually less important than
someone’s dip in Ganges and more importantly, why should a secular
govt be even required to measure spirituality quotient?
Gopi Thomas Reply:
March 8th, 2010 at 4:51 pm
@SKS
I read somewhere that Haj subsidies were never requested by the
community. I believe it was instituted during the oil shock of early
1970s and institutionalized ever since. This may be one situation
where one smart politician created a permanent vote bank through this
master stroke.
ajay says:
March 8, 2010 at 10:10 am
those politicians who are using vote bank politics must be dealt with
severely.other people who easily get caugt by words of these soundrels
should apply there common sense
S Singh says:
March 8, 2010 at 5:29 pm
There is no dispute that everything possible should be done to uplift
ALL., to make all contributors to a great country and humanity.
Money should be spent wisely; it also should be spent on all who need,
not just Muslims.
Money is only one, and may be even a lesser part, as far as upliftment
of Muslims are concerned. Unlike Hindus, Christians, jews, budhists
etc they do not give much emphasis to education. It simply is not
their “core” belief. When Hindu and kids belonging to other religions
right from early ages are inculcated “Vidya dhan sarva dhanal
pradhan” , the focus of Muslim kids is memorizing Quran. After that,
they get into petty trades.
Unless education is considered as the most important factor and
embraced by the family and community, nothing will happen; complaints
will remain.
SKS Mumbai says:
March 8, 2010 at 8:20 pm
@Gopi
I don’t know, but it can’t be that simple.
SKS Mumbai says:
March 8, 2010 at 8:22 pm
Quote:
‘While it gives Air India 150,000 assured passengers every year
(that’s the total number of seats on all Indian carriers criss-
crossing the country on any given day), helping it KEEP AFLOAT, the
grant has been turned into a stick to beat Muslims with’
This is really all that it takes!
One article by a non-entity, (he/she could be anything, journalist,
activist, third rate self proclaimed intellectual, rabble rouser,
dancer, singer, whatever. Even if he wasn’t, that article alone will
make him a front ranking secular warrior), asserting that Haj subsidy
is really a subsidy for Air India.
Watch that dumb ‘assertion’ turn into a foundational truth for the
Indian secularrazzi, to be repeated so many times that, Hitler would
have them rather Goebbels.
It just does not matter that the fraudulent claim is immediately
thrashed to pieces by precise facts and irrefutable documentary
evidence, the ‘Truth’ once revealed, is the Divine Law for our secular
believers. To question the law is apostasy or a communal propaganda by
Hindutva forces, or as Mr Zia claims, a ’stick’ to beat poor Muslims
with.
For a moment, even if we accept that fraudulent claim, what changes
Mr. Zia? Muslims are still getting a subsidy, aren’t they? Or can you
book a return ticket for Patna-Delhi-Jeddah for Rs.12000 (or Rs 16000
for last year only)? Bulk discounts? Yes why not, we will see later
how much difference your direct chartering can make. Unfortunately
facts happen to be facts and if they are communal so be it (in the
meanwhile Mr Zia could check whether direct charter negotiations were
attempted at some point of time or not and what went wrong). Here are
the facts:
1. It isn’t 150,000 prize customers in the first place, the number for
2010 is more like 120,000 and that after annual increases of the order
of 10,000-15,000. approximately 50% of that is carried by Saudi
airlines.
2. Spare/standby aircrafts are a part of any commercial airlines
fleet, but they are primarily used when regular aircrafts are sent for
scheduled or unscheduled maintenance. Haj means 2-3 months of a steep
peak forcing most of the commercial airlines to opt for short term
leases, called wet lease. Being short-term, they are by definition
much more expensive than longer leases. It does not take an Einstein
to understand that the capital cost of the wet leased aircrafts will
have to be recovered from the passengers who fly during that peak
window. For e.g. If you look at the state electricity boards, their
normal procurement costs (for the pool) will rarely exceed Rs 4-5/
unit. But during peak months, the incremental power is often purchased
at Rs. 10-15/unit range. It matters, but little, that your requirement
for those few months constitutes a huge volume, the annual fixed cost
will still be recovered during those two months. Further, it seems
that many of the aircrafts have to undertake one trip without
passengers (i.e. no backhaul)
3. If AIR INDIA was really saving itself by grabbing the prized Haj
Service, why does it keep on requesting the Govt to allow other
airlines in the space? Isn’t that Monopolistic, Mr Zia ? Last publicly
known attempt was around 2008. http://www.financialexpress.com/news/haj-subsidy-has-air-india-fuming/360651/0
4. BTW Muslims anyway have the option of not going through Haj
committee and a large number of Muslims actually go through private
tour operators (~ 40,000 or so), so why are suffering the tyranny of
AI? Why? Especially when it also gives the so-unfair-stick to Hindutva
Guys ?
But all these are lies, a hindutva propaganda, sanghi hate mongering,
the only Truth and what we need to remember for ever is that, it is
not the ‘Poor Hajis’ but AI who is being subsidized. (soon we will
discover it wasn’t even AI, it were the vile Bramhins-Bania who were
fattening themselevs)
You know what, some 100 years down the line, secular historian will
cite these and assert Haj subsidy was a myth and contrary evidence
will be subjected to secular tools called contextualizing History and
presenting multiple perspectives and another 100 years Haj subsidy
won’t even be a subject.
S Singh Reply:
March 9th, 2010 at 2:53 pm
Muslims will go on itching, bitching, scratching…
The only solution is dictatorship (why do you think almost all Muslim
countries are dictatorships?) or someother way of controlling, because
they respect power; they just cannot operate independently in a
democracy. Time and again it ahs been demonstrated that they cannot
form, suatain a democracy.
India will remain a democracy, meaning the scratching and bitching
will be with us for a long time, unless a region is converted to
another Pakistan and round up ALL Muslims to that region.
Rajeev Reply:
March 9th, 2010 at 9:06 pm
No all muslims should be packed up and sent to pakistan. No more
divisions for these ungrateful people.
Rajeev says:
March 8, 2010 at 9:07 pm
Is this RE another avatar of Soft-terrorits Bobby?
sanjeev Reply:
March 9th, 2010 at 6:59 pm
@ Rajeev
Tonight i will get to meet biggest anti national..Javed Naqvi (dawn
reporter from delhi )
I want to ask him some tough questions ..
If any knowledge u can share about this nut ?
Rajeev Reply:
March 9th, 2010 at 9:05 pm
Ask him just one thing. Is he Indian or Pakistani?
If he is Indian and beleives in secularism, why is he with Pakistan on
Kashmir.
Secondly ask him what happened to 20% hindu population of pakistans.
How many guharat massacre took place in Pakistan?
SKS Mumbai says:
March 8, 2010 at 10:12 pm
Aah Rs 390 crs isn’t it.
Last statement by Dr Tharoor pegs it at some Rs 826 crs for 2009!and
still counting all these numbers continue to be Provisional.
Rajeev says:
March 9, 2010 at 1:30 am
I have always wondered if Hajj performed on khairat of infidel nation
(India) is haram or Halal.
I am pretty sure that all the muslims perforing Hajj on donations
doled out by hindu-dominated India are commiting shirk and their hajj
is invalid according to Islam.
I guess most of the muslims are destined for jahannum.
S Singh Reply:
March 9th, 2010 at 2:35 pm
Does not matter, as long as it is free.
It is the government we should blame; and by that voters like us. what
the politicians have done is one more way of institutionalizing
“minority” , this time with huge allocation. Now the bar of spending
is set high, and every following year it will be higher than the prior
year.
Like any government spending schemes, only 10% will go to the purpose;
other 90% will go to the b ureaucracy and contractors!
sanjeev Reply:
March 9th, 2010 at 6:50 pm
ha ha ha ha !
where else they can go ?
mulleh ki dor masjid tak
RE Reply:
March 20th, 2010 at 2:53 pm
arey pandit ki langot apni dhoti sambhalo yaar
SKS Mumbai says:
March 9, 2010 at 9:35 pm
@Ashish
In RE, you have one of the original ones. His views on Premjee’s
Billions and stuff are part of the original curriculum. Don’t be
surprised, when you are told:
1. It is Indian Muslims living in the gulf whose earnings drive the
larger part of Indian economy.
2. That Indira Gandhi used her charm to get cheap oil from the house
of Sauds and thus Hindus have been living off Muslim charity for ages.
3.That there is a conspiracy under which muslim intellectuals are
being murdered and this has gone for many decades now.
4. That “Urdu” was eliminated as a language to prevent muslim
advancement.
5. Some more that I came across recently: the conspiracy against
Muslims also include: introducing “gate-keeper” mentality-type service
commission exams and entrance exams for professional courses .That a
scientist was picked to become a Muslim President of India, to
diminish OR extinguish his contribution to science.
That (hold your breath) Shahrukh Khan and Amir Khan have Hindu wives,
because they are rich and famous – and their wives will inherit their
crores.
6. Of course we all know about 9/11, 26/11, Karkare, Batla and types.
Recent violence in Karnataka on Tasleema’s article was also a Hindutva
conspiracy.(Confirmed already as I see)
7. Upper caste Hindus joined hands with British in a conspiracy to
weaken Islamic Kings, freedom fight was mainly a Muslim venture, but
Gandhi and Nehru forged another conspiracy to divide India, so that
Muslims were weakened.
8. His views on how state is dealing with Maoists because they are
Hindus shouldn’t surprise anyone. The difference lies, not in
perceptions but in definitions itself.
Reasoned debate is useless and anyway impossible. Facts must adhere to
’secular’ requirement else they are conspiracies. When even fairly
well ensconced people, from the core of mainstream, do not hesitate in
asserting nonsense like Haj subsidy is for Air India, never miss the
opportunity to impress you with Quranic wisdom, or to offer Quranic
justification while urging Muslims to seek education or to not hate
the jews, we know it isn’t just another problem.
This combined with the values our politicians operate on, will ensure
that we just have to live with it the way it is and just hope it does
not get worse during our or our children’s lifetime.
Gopi Thomas Reply:
March 9th, 2010 at 10:45 pm
@SKS
There is more; especially with the advent of ex SIMI turned into PFI/
SDPI as a political party for the disadvantaged, “not just Muslims”:
1)Brahmins are colluding with USA/UK to make India a Jesustan
2)Reservations etc are farce; Brahmins control everything (i am still
looking for those powerful Brahmins!)
3) Muslims did well in the first 30 years of independence; then a
coordinated conspiracy started to marginalize them, to exterminate
their intellectuals
4)The elite Muslims migrated to Pakistan (we know how that has helped
PAkistan) and the real backward Muslims stayed back in India
5) Gandhiji was in collusion with Brahmins to marginalize Muslims
6)Lodhi and Gazni are not Muslims,a nd Somnath temple destruction
should not be attributed to Muslims
7)Babur loved all and did not destroy any places of worship
8)Auragazeb is maligned by Brahmins; he was a great king who cared for
all equally (and Akbar was not a great king)
9)Shivaji looted neighboring kingdoms, and have done more damage to
india than any Moghul or other foreign invaders have done
10)”Mapilla rebellion” in Kerala that happened with Khilafet was an
agrarian revolution and not one where muslims targeted and raped and
killed Hindus and destroyed their palces of worship
11) tipu Sultan was a benevolent king who did not destroy palces of
worship of Hindus and Christians (although history of Kerala clearly
traces his “patayottam” (rapid fight ) for the massive conversions in
Malabar area, including naming Calicut as Islamabad for a while
12)All the communal troubles are started by Brahmins to further
marginalize Muslims
List goes on
Ashish Reply:
March 10th, 2010 at 1:28 am
@SKS @Gopi Thomas
great compilations; SKS, great summary of the core arguments we have
heard on this blog over the last few months.
This blog has run out of ideas.. tired, tiresome and repetitive..
poorly researched and lately even without a central idea.
I can sense the next blog coming.. on why Ranganath Mishra
recommendations must be adopted. Stealing from a well known poster,
first seen in London, “Sachar spotted the cancer, Mishra has the
answer”.
Trying to remember some Muslim Maoist name; honestly can’t. By the
way, SP/RE/UI.. whoever/ whatever, I was in Lalbazar (Calcutta police
HQ) .. staying with a certain doctor employed with the police the day
Charu Mazumdar was brought in. I have heard enough stories of how
Naxals used to be handled by the Calcutta Police; suffice it to say
KPS Gill was really tame in comparison. Honestly speaking, I have
never ever thought about the religion of the Naxals; now that I do,
yes, you are right. All of these guys I heard of were Hindus-excepting
Jangal Santhal – even though I am sure they will be quite amused to be
called such. But, the brutality on both sides (Naxals and the state)
was totally secular. I hope I am not told next that Maoists and the
Government are in cahoots to rid the world of Muslims.
Hindus become Maoists because they just like to kill and are afforded
protection by the state; and Muslims do not- inspite of all the
discrimination, because they follow the religion of peace. Hmmm…..
Talking about KPS Gill; so, his forces killed Muslims and then dressed
them up as Khalistanis, correct? Just checking…
MMM’s (Much Maligned Modi) goons killed Muslims while his police shot
dead 400 Hindus .. inconvenient, but true.
Gopi, great item 4 on your list. Precisely..
SKS Mumbai Reply:
March 10th, 2010 at 2:17 pm
@Ashish
‘Honestly speaking, I have never ever thought about the religion of
the Naxals’
Hmm that shows your communal mindset, Bhai sahab.
Ashish Reply:
March 10th, 2010 at 3:56 pm
@SKS
my communal mindset is well established on this blog.. garv se kaho…
RE Reply:
March 20th, 2010 at 2:52 pm
Arey bhai then stop living off Muslim money and Muslim oil. Dead
simple as that. You hate us like anything and yet want to live off our
money! hahaha great
RE Reply:
March 20th, 2010 at 2:54 pm
You didn’t answer my post cuz you DON”T have an answer . Stop being a
MORON for a change. You sound like a joker
SKS Mumbai says:
March 10, 2010 at 2:13 pm
Sorry guys, I underestimated the power of contextualisation and
perspectivasation and the time it might take to secularise the
history. It is faster.
See what India’s great son, Mr Kuldip Nair has to say about 26/11 and
Karkare:
Quote: More worrisome are the Hindu extremists rearing their head. The
murder of police officer Hemant Karkare, who was probing the Malegaon
blasts, was the doing of the Vishwa Hindu Parishad or Bajrang Dal”
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/columnists/16-kuldip-nayar-politics-of-terrorism-hs-01
See how simple it is to present TRUTH. If you want first mover
advantage, it is time to write a Book :
November 26th 2008, Mumbai : Revolt of the oppressed against the vile
Hindu Elite.
You can try a Bharat Ratna for yourself and freedom fighter’s pension
for Mr Kasab
Ashish Reply:
March 10th, 2010 at 4:01 pm
@SKS
for a few pieces of silver.. Mr Nayar can be made to say anything..
He does not find a publisher on this side of the border anymore; don’t
judge him too harshly.. he needs to earn a living somehow.
Gopi Thomas Reply:
March 10th, 2010 at 6:12 pm
@Ashish
I will take Kuldip against Naqvi (who also writes for Dawn) anytime!
SKS Mumbai says:
March 10, 2010 at 4:11 pm
@Ashish
the latest seems to be “garv se kaho hum internet hindu hain”
Rajeev Reply:
March 10th, 2010 at 9:21 pm
Nice one…
Indian says:
March 11, 2010 at 9:59 am
Victim Swami Laxmanananda portrayed as a villain by biased media
Alarming 5 fold increase in Kandhamal Christian population from six
per cent in 1971 to 27 per cent in 2001 ,It began with the arrival of
Christian missionaries in the area who found the remote region very
conducive to conduct prosetylization amongst the poor tribals. The
conversions continued unhindered until the arrival of Swami
Laxmanananda who put strenuous efforts to stop conversions and help
reconversion to Hindouism as well. If not for his effort Kandhamal
would have been another Nagaland in the making where the separatist
movement has wrecked havoc in the state. The aggressive Christian
proselytization in Orissa today pitched previously peaceful tribals
into warring camps of Christians and non-Christian. This has has
vitiated the peace that has existed with various communities for
millenia. Next target is KARNATAKA and they are facing stiff
resistance from Hindus here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SKS Mumbai says:
March 12, 2010 at 10:25 pm
Another TRAIL BLAZING Research!!
Truth behind Sachin’s 200 runs Innings. Must Read
http://altnews.asia/content/2010/03/11/who-controls-fanatic-india-xi-dr-abdul-ruff-colachal-0
Author is one more feather in the crowded cap of our JN University of
Secular Research Sciences.
Ashish Reply:
March 12th, 2010 at 11:42 pm
@SKS,
does the JNU reserve seats for the mentally challenged?
sanjeev Reply:
March 14th, 2010 at 7:54 pm
@ ashish
Infact it has become fashionable to criticize govt and hindus in JNU.
There is whole lot a generation mostly elite bengali who tretas it
fashionable to be politically correct and being anti national.
Unfortunately the leftist brigade have penetarted deeply in JNU
faculty where it has become fashionable to criticise anything indian,
Infact JNU has proved to be a factory of producing traitors in the
garb of liberal thinkers
sanjeev Reply:
March 14th, 2010 at 7:58 pm
@ Ashish
Yes there is reservation for such elements like Rauff in centres of
JNU in schools of languages and international relations. These centres
are for Urdu, Arabic, Persian, west asian studiess, etc.
In fact these centres are reserved exclusively of urdu-persian- arabi
speaking intellectuals.
Hence we used to call these departments as UPA
Gopi Thomas Reply:
March 13th, 2010 at 1:52 pm
It also shows people live in different planets. Also, it is like
Newton’s law. The more appeasement and more give aways, the more
demand for more and cries of discrimination. The person’s last name
sounds like a typical Kerala “house” name; and if he is from there, it
is an even “bigger” problem. Because whatever may be the issue in
other parts of India, they were part of the ruling coalition from
almost day 1; they got their district formed, they are one of the
richest groups etc etc.
SKS Mumbai says:
March 13, 2010 at 6:29 pm
@Ashish
Reservations for mentally challenged?
Interesting question , but for which levele admission or for faculty.
http://blogs.hindustantimes.com/they-call-me-muslim/2010/02/28/budgeting-for-minorities/
My Name Is Bal Thackeray
In the middle of the Shiv Sena’s rampage against Shah Rukh Khan’s My
Name Is Khan in Bombay, came the delightful news that someone had
blackened Pramod Muthalik’s face in Bangalore just as he was preparing
to oppose Valentine’s Day celebrations on Sunday.
I think it is rich that he should describe the act as “undemocratic”
and against freedom of expression – as though such freedoms are the
prerogative of just the bigots of this country and the rest of us have
no democratic rights or freedom to do as we please, at all!
But that also brought to mind the fact that perhaps the Shiv Sena in
Bombay has been the biggest loser this Valentine season. They are the
original party poopers of Valentine’s Day celebrations – there was a
time when Bal Thackeray had become synonymous with the term. I recall
a friend in a raging fight with her husband who would not take her out
to dinner one Valentine’s day one year. When this musty and old-
fashioned gent started a spiel on Indian culture and traditions, my
friend walked off in a huff, muttering, “There is no fun in asking Bal
Thackeray out to dinner, anyway!”
Now the sainiks have no time to mount an attack as of yore on card and
gift companies who might want to make a killing as people celebrate
their love for each other. In any case, they have no reason. The Shiv
Sena is now in the hands of Thackeray’s son Uddhav and he has no love
lost for his divorced sister-in-law, Smita.
According to my information from inside Matoshree, the Sena only ever
took up the anti-Valentine’s Day cause purely for reasons of personal
pique. When they started the campaign sometime in the late Nineties,
Smita was very thick with her father-in-law Bal Thackeray. And
Thackeray Sr was pretty miffed one December when a very well-known
card and gift company –which puts up huge Valentines Day hearts and
arches all across urban India — refused to sponsor his daughter-in-
law’s Mukti Foundation event in the battle against AIDS.
I am told that they had burnt their fingers the previous year – they
were not paid their share of the dues even after several reminders and
appeals and so decided to cut their losses by determining never to
sponsor such an event ever again. None of Thackeray’s cajoling,
pleading or threatening would budge this company.
So when Valentine’s Day came around a few weeks later in February,
Thackeray decided to get even. For years after that the Sena
vandalised all card shops and gift outlets on Valentine’s Day – and
then, one year, it abruptly ceased. It must have been a coincidence
surely that by then the reins had been handed over to Uddhav and his
brother divorced that year. I believe Uddhav saw no point in opposing
something that had caught on like fire, particularly for someone he
considered no longer a member of the Thackeray household; indeed for
someone he felt had no claim to the Thackeray name any longer.
It is also significant that Raj Thackeray actually encouraged the
celebration of love soon after he formed his Maharashtra Navnirman
Sena –he put up posters encouraging youths to learn ball room dancing
(though that stopped after the first year when he received flak for
encouraging westernisation among Indian youth).
Today, the whole world has seen how Shah Rukh Khan has stood up to Bal
Thackeray and refused to pay up – yes, at the end of the day, that is
what, I believe, this was all about. The Sena targeted Shah Rukh only
because he had a film coming up and knew that producers and
distributors would rather buy off the trouble than risk vandalisation
and block crores of rupees riding on their films (that’s what Karan
Johar did after all vis-à-vis Wake Up, Sid and Raj Thackeray). I
salute Shah Rukh for keeping producers and distributors, too, from
giving in to such low blackmailing tactics.
However, very few people know that much before Shah Rukh, one card
company in India had silently determined not to give in to cheap arm-
twisting and risked – even suffered – vandalisation and monetary
losses for years before the Sena got off its back and the celebration
of love began to happen in Bombay in right earnest.
Of course, the individual for whom these obstructionist activities
were undertaken was herself organising highly expensive celebratory
dinners for couples at her various restaurants across the city much
before the vandalisation ceased, quite exposing the duplicity of the
Shiv Sena in its campaigns – a point that has now been underscored by
Raj Thackeray. For the first time I agree with Raj – if the Sena can
allow cultural exchanges between India and Pakistan to go forward
unfettered, then they have an ulterior motive in targeting Shah Rukh
Khan.
And that is not because he is Muslim or supported Pakistani cricket
players. It is because he had a film coming up which had nearly a
billion rupees riding on it. And opportunities like these are not
something to let go of — if Your Name Is Bal Thackeray.
(38 votes, average: 4.53 out of 5)
Posted by Sujata Anandan on Friday, February 12, 2010 at 4:58 pm
Filed under India · Tagged Bal Thackeray, Bangalore, blackened Pramod
Muthalik, Bombay, My Name Is Khan, rampage, Shahrukh Khan, Shiv Sena,
Valentine’s Day celebrations
102 Responses to “My Name Is Bal Thackeray”
Kushal says:
February 13, 2010 at 12:31 pm
Great piece, Sujata. But I’m with Manish – not only the Sena(s) but
ALL political parties have ulterior motives behind their causes.
Kushal Reply:
February 13th, 2010 at 3:19 pm
Btw, do you suppose the Sena will demand a cut of MNIK’s takings since
they have practically driven the whole nation to watch it, just to
take a stand?
Sujata Anandan Reply:
February 15th, 2010 at 2:37 pm
Ha, ha, ha! Tht will take some gall!
Anurav Reply:
February 14th, 2010 at 10:55 am
True. ALL political parties have ulterior motives but only a handful
like Sena keeps the city as hostage.
Sujata Anandan Reply:
February 15th, 2010 at 2:35 pm
Agree, Bunny. But like Anurav says all political parties have their
agenda but only ones like the Sena hold the city to ransom
Kushal Reply:
February 16th, 2010 at 6:17 pm
I’m no advocate for the Sena(s), Sujata and Anurav. But I wonder how a
government can allow things to reach such a state that a party CAN
hold a city to ransom.
What about THOSE ulterior motives?
Harry says:
February 13, 2010 at 1:22 pm
Hi sujata, why didn’t u publish my comment.
Sujata Anandan Reply:
February 15th, 2010 at 2:38 pm
Have no control over this , Harry
Anil says:
February 13, 2010 at 3:57 pm
Not much debate when Nilesh Rane a congress MP held Maharashtra to
ransom on the film Zhenda. He even managed to have the film release
postponed. Nice government sponsored promotion for MNIK. 24 hours
prime time coverage. Great going. Keep it up
Mohin says:
February 13, 2010 at 6:33 pm
Bal Thackare is a ordinary Man,is a not God,He is using ordinary
Peoples to him as Powerful
Certainly he fails.If i am CM of Maharastra Surely He will be
furnished.
Anil Kumar says:
February 13, 2010 at 10:13 pm
In the middle of the Shiv Sena’s rampage against Shah Rukh Khan’s My
Name Is Khan in Bombay, came the “delightful” news ..
See this is the problme with socalled educated class of India.. Here
this madam found that news delightful.
As much as I disapprove the nonsense of valentine’s day protest it’s
equally disturbing that people midn you educated one at that find this
vandalism when the recepient is their object of hate find it
delightful..
What is the difference between Muthalik’s army spreading nonsense and
these idiots who blackend his face that too in a panel debate..
Sane people shold be the last oen to endorse these behavious otherwise
you lose the right to complain when army of muthaliksfo the world go
on rampage
Rajeev says:
February 13, 2010 at 10:46 pm
I think it is SRK desperate attempt to equal 3 idiots collections by
any means…what a chichora khan!!!
Rajeev says:
February 14, 2010 at 12:20 am
This controversy started by SRK is just to promote MNIK so that his
movie can beat collections for 3 Idiot.
What a Chichora loser SRK is!!!
What fools we Indians are!!! This mediocre actor has taken this nation
for a ride with Congress in arms and media in his shoes.
By the way our Maharashtra police was so busy gaurding SRK’s movie
that they forgot to gaurd common people of pune (who have stood up to
Thackrey but forgot to stand up to terrorist sympathisers).
Rajeev says:
February 14, 2010 at 12:56 am
Let us see who gained and lost out of this controversy-
1. Congress – Gained political mileage in UP and Bihar by showing sham
sympathy towards north Indians in Mumbai. Gained political mileage
among muslim voters by supporting Shahrukh Khan and his pro-pakistani
stance (Pakistan is a great neighbor to have).
2. Rahul Gandhi – Has become a hero for UP and Bihar voters. By
supporting SRK, he has become hero of communal muslim voters and now
is going to Azamgarh to consolidate those gains.
3. Shiv Sena- After becoming irrelevant after MNS (Raj Thackrey)
hijacked its plank ably supported by congress led chavan govt., they
got an opportunity to get noticed. They miscalcuated big time because
they should know that India has moved on. We have now become immuned
to terrorism and are now more interested in making money. For us
escapist routes like movies are more important than lives of 200
Indians. As long as VIPs are not hurt, we don’t care and so does our
Media.
4. Media- Media got great TRP out of this controversy..loads of ads
and big money. The media under the leadership of Rahul Gandhi has also
started propaganda that rahul is next KING of India (Times of India).
This is the first time in the history of private television that
doordarshan stands ashamed in front of media’s pro-congress bias.
5. Aam Admi urf Ullu ka Pattha – Aam admi lost money on mediocre film
like MNIK, lost valuable time following useless pro-SRK and pro-Rahul
Baba story.
Nikhil says:
February 14, 2010 at 1:49 pm
Sujata,
UNHOLY NEXUS BETN BOLLYWOOD AND NEWS MEDIA IN INDIA:
Please read the article in Indian express today. They say it’s unique
in India where movie producers and stars own or have stake in the
content providers or business groups that own TV channels. This
furthers the deep suspicion in the MNIK controversy. SRK and Karan
Johar, most likely, are laughing their way to the bank. Shiv Sena
perhaps may’ve got a small share of it too. Who knows?
arvind says:
February 17, 2010 at 10:56 am
Thakray family jo khud mumbai ka nahi hai aur apne aap ko asli
mumbaikar batata hai , mumbai uski hai jo mumbai se sachha pyar karta
hai ,uske bare me sochta hai , ye logo ke bhawnao ko bhadkakar apne
roti ka intjam karte hai aur pure mumbai ke logo ke paise ko lutte
hai, pahle party banakar party fund ke paise se apna ghar chalate hai.
Agar thakray me himmat hai to north india jane wali kisi bhi train ke
genral compartment me baith kar dikhai, aur wo train non stopage ho to
shayad destintion tak pahunchte pahunchte wo history ke ek joker ban
kar rah jayenge . thakrey hosh me aao , nafrat ki aandhi mat failao ,
nahi to usi me mit jaoge .
Rajeev Reply:
February 17th, 2010 at 10:07 pm
It looks like a typical nautanki congressi speech.
shiuli says:
February 17, 2010 at 1:29 pm
Ms.Sujata, great insight. Enjoyed the subtle wit in your writing also
the way you put across your point, by not badgering it down the neck.
Ashish Kolarkar says:
February 17, 2010 at 2:10 pm
Thanks Sujata for revealing interesting secret motive of Thackeray’s
in public domain. I’m sure you have lot of such secrets to offer in
near future. Enjoyed your blog.
arvind says:
February 18, 2010 at 10:20 am
It’s real voice of truth indian , agar dam hai to thkray family ko
train me bitha kar dekh lo saath me tum bhi aa jana
AKshay_Marathi says:
February 21, 2010 at 6:39 pm
Hi..,
THIS IS REALLY DISAPPOINTING TO READ THAT , U ARE PORPOSEFULLY USIN
WORD BOMBAY.
U HATE THAKRE O.K. BUT WHY R U INSULTING WHOLE MARATHI BY REPEATNG
BOMBAY.
MAY BE ONE TO GET OUR LOST PRIDE AND TO SAVE FROM HUMILIATION FROM
INDIAN WE HAVE TO SUPPORT THAKRE.
PLZ. DO’T CALL IT BAMBAY IT IS MUMBAI.
Rajeev Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 10:47 pm
These jouranlist are extremist fascist who impose their ideologies on
others.
Arpit says:
February 24, 2010 at 1:36 am
Its was only the the publicity stunt by Bal Thackeray. He only wants a
topic every time to be in limelite, as he did when he was delivering
comments on north Indians in Mumbai……..nothing else…I think this type
of political party should be banned in India…I think they people wanna
run country as what they want………………
Earthling says:
March 11, 2010 at 7:28 pm
thakeray is a very bad boy…never will he do good in the face of
indians….corrupting mind sets of people and talking as if he is doing
all good for india…
http://blogs.hindustantimes.com/singly-political/2010/02/12/my-name-is-bal-thackeray/#more-135
Happy Birthday, Netaji
As Bal Thackeray turns 83 on Saturday (January 23), I cannot help
recalling the politics of birthdays that I have witnessed over the
years.
The first political birthday party that I ever attended was that of S
B Chavan (father of Maharashtra’s Chief Minister Ashok Chavan),
sometime in the late Eighties.Sharad pawar had just merged his
Congress(S) with the Congress(I) and become Chief Minister the
previous year. And though Chavan Sr was inducted into the union
cabinet as Home Minister, I think he was mighty miffed at having been
summarily displaced to accommodate the Maratha warlord.
The move opened up a chasm between the so-called `loyalists’ in the
Congress and those who were Pawar’s acolytes. The bickering and
nitpicking went on for months, until Chavan’s birthday arrived on July
14 the next year. Without making any overt moves that might seem as a
campaign against the party high command (it was still Rajiv Gandhi
then), Congress loyalists thought they would use Chavan Sr’s birthday
to put Pawar in his place.
The party was held at a star hotel in South Bombay and a huge
chocolate cake was rolled in to stand under the chandelier in the main
ballroom of that hotel. The hosts had invited all and sundry,
including journalists, except for one very important person – Chief
Minister Sharad Pawar. They were full of glee as Chavan was
fashionably late at his own birthday party and crowed at how awful
Pawar might feel when he read about it in the papers the next day.
The birthday boy arrived an hour after he was scheduled to cut the
cake and we all gathered round him as he held the ribboned knife in
his hand and prepared to set the ball rolling. Even as those around
him clapped and sang the birthday tune, I turned round to see why
there was an unusual hush around the edges of that room.
Sharad Pawar was standing at the door and, even as Chavan cut a slice,
Pawar moved slowly towards the centre of the room. And before Chavan
could lift the slice and feed it to the person nearest him (I forget
who), Pawar was standing with an extended hand to greet Chavan a happy
birthday. A chagrined Chavan had to feed the cake to Pawar, instead;
they hugged and exchanged pleasantries even as many of the Congress
workers stood around in consternation..
Chavan graciously invited him to join the party but Pawar demurely
declined. He had another important meeting to attend, he said by way
of explanation, but had just dropped in as he was passing by the hotel
en route to this other function. He left in minutes but it took
several more for the others to regain their composure and continue
with the now subdued celebrations.
Next day, as I and another colleague nosed round Pawar’s office, we
were told in confidence by a close confidante that Pawar had heard
about the plan to cut him out of the party and was damned if he would
be defeated by a bunch of `upstarts’ or provide a lot of grist to the
mill of journalists who would have a blast the next morning. So he
decided to play party pooper-of-sorts (because that is what he had
turned out to be the previous night).
We were told that Pawar had arrived at the time given out for the cake-
cutting ceremony but sent a sniffer upstairs to find out how things
stood. He decided he would not be kept waiting for Chavan inside the
hotel and asked his cavalcade to circle round the locality of the
hotel several times until Chavan himself had rolled in (he had posted
some cops as lookouts). Pawar then timed his entry perfectly to
nonplus Chavan and his supporters with, “I heard you were having a
party for your birthday. So I decided to drop in myself and greet you
in person.’’
And then he went home. Satisfied that he had nipped any mischief in
the bud. Chavan never had another birthday party like that one again,
though his constituents would celebrate the day in his hometown off
and on over the years.
And as far as I remember, Pawar has only ever had one birthday party –
when he turned 60 nearly a decade ago. There was a five-star event
with the who’s who of India represented the previous evening. But it
was his public rally the next day that saddened me the most. For, even
then it was no secret that he was dying to be Prime Minister. Atal
Behari Vajpayee was in office at the time and Pawar was at pains to
explain to his supporters that it was still not too late for him. “In
this country no one becomes Prime Minister before they are 70,’’ he
said, though that was not strictly true – Indira and Rajiv Gandhi each
had been much younger. “Look at P V Narasimha Rao, he was half way
through his seventies before he became PM; even Vajpayee now is past
75. I am yet only 60. There is still plenty of time.’’
I wondered if his support base was shrinking and he needed to say that
to stop them from abandoning him altogether. Ten years later he is
still not PM and I wonder how much more time he would now need to get
to that high office.
But it is not just Congressmen who are fond of birthdays. Manohar
Joshi had had himself presented with a 60-diamond necklace on – what
else? – his 60th birthday in a very public ceremony in Bombay wherein
he laid claim to a flawless career stating proudly that no one could
find a breath of scandal against him. Bal Thackeray, then about to
turn 75, was at the time besieged with allegations that his nephew Raj
Thackeray had murdered middle-class professional Ramesh Kini and he
did not take that comment kindly. Joshi was out of office within weeks
and Thackeray barred anyone from going to town on his own birthday.
Joshi has never had another party again.
Nearly a decade later, Thackeray is still off a public celebration of
his birthday. Shiv Sainiks, though, have organised blood donation
camps, free distribution of grains et al to mark the event but the
Sena patriarch has decided to remain out of public view.
I think he is the wisest of them all. I am told he is superstitious –
kahin nazar naa lag jaye!
(1 votes, average: 5 out of 5)
Posted by Sujata Anandan on Friday, January 22, 2010 at 7:45 pm
Filed under India · Tagged Bal Thackeray, Maratha warlord, political
birthday party, Rajiv Gandhi, S B Chavan, Sharad Pawar
6 Responses to “Happy Birthday, Netaji!”
Dev says:
January 22, 2010 at 11:03 pm
And we’ll never know what became of Netaji.
Anil says:
January 23, 2010 at 11:36 am
Wish Pawar had used the same cunningness to improve agriculture sector
and bring down prices. He is just incapable of thinking big for the
country. The only person who really knew how to celebrate birthday in
a manner beffiting his personality was Chach Nehru. He really spent
quality time with children. Others have just aped him.
Ashish Kolarkar says:
January 23, 2010 at 8:35 pm
Due to such shrewdness and intelligence Pawar is in the limelight for
such a long time. He is too ambitious and believes in playing long
innings. Who knows one day this Maratha Sardar would hoist flag from
Lal Kila?
But it seems that Pawar is losing his popularity for his foot in mouth
comments recently. He seems to have all the problems but no soultions
to Offer to common man. He is bent on taking his role too casually.
Good that Thackeray Sr has finally realised that birthday bashes are
meant for sycophancy only and don’t serve any good purpose.
vipin malik says:
January 24, 2010 at 12:03 am
you remeber for netaji all indian popel it was great man
vipin malik says:
January 24, 2010 at 12:10 am
i am a fan of Netaji
Anil Kumar says:
January 24, 2010 at 3:51 am
These leaders who set goal in terms of this or that chair make me
cringe..
All these leader needs a plenary session with Narendra Modi..
Everytime anyone asks him about chairs his reply is I never lust for
chair I lost for work to be done target to be achieved with or without
chair.. Chair is not the destination and that’s how it should be..
http://blogs.hindustantimes.com/singly-political/2010/01/22/happy-birthday-netaji/#more-131
Jhenda ooncha rahe…
14 Comments
Ram Gopal Verma’s Sarkar and Sarkar Raj are broadly thought to be
based on the life of Bal Thackeray. In large portions, the theme might
be taken from episodes from the Sena tiger’s life but the intelligence
and dexterity of managing politics that has characterised Amitabh
Bachchan’s portrayal of Sarkar in the two films have never been Bal
Thackeray’s forte.
Thackeray is an instinctive politician whose reactions have always
been spontaneous rather than well-thought out. Moreover, he has
thrived not on his programmes or issues of his making but on the
mistakes of other parties (in large measure, the Congress). For
example, the one and only time that the Shiv Sena came to power in
Maharashtra in alliance with the BJP was in 1995, soon after the 1992
riots and the 1993 bomb blasts when people thought and believed that
the Congress was playing far too many games and still remembered the
protectionist campaign of Shiv Sainiks through those burning weeks.
If the Sena was unable to return in 1999, 2004 and 2009 again, it is
because in these years, the Congress and the Nationalist Congress
Party, in alliance in Maharashtra, have largely done little wrong and
Thackeray has found no gap in the fabric to tear it apart.
But the Shiv Sena’s massive defeat at both the Lok Sabha and the
Assembly elections can be largely attributed to art — or at least
politics posing as art. Just before the Lok Sabha polls, Raj Thackeray
had helped to produce a film titled Mee Chhatrapati Shivaji Raje
Bhosale Boltoy (I, Chhatrapati Shivaji Raje Bhosale, speak), with
Mahesh Manjrekar playing the title role, that was an indictment of the
complacence and laid-back attitudes of Maharastrians. It portrayed,
through film, the political point that Raj had been hammering at for
months: that the Maharashtrian is content with just a table, khurchi
ani pankha (a table, a chair and a fan). That he did not strive for
much more and allowed others to walk all over him. The film exhorted
Maharashtrians to become more combative in their own interest and,
like Oliver, never stop asking for more
It released in Maharashtra’s cinemas just before the producers-
multiplex imbroglio and so ran for weeks and weeks and had a great
hand in influencing a large number of Maharashtrian youth who went
right out and voted for Raj Thackeray’s Maharashtra Navnirman Sena.
Now the Shiv Sena has come out with its counter to that film – benami
again, like Raj’s production of Chhatrapati, but with no kid gloves on
this time. It appears to be a real-life account of the war between the
two cousins – indeed, from the stills released so far, it is very
difficult to spot the differences between the actors who play Raj and
Uddhav and the original cousins.
Titled Jhenda (Flag), it seems to be a mixture of truth and
exaggeration and some of the alleged falsehoods have already compelled
the producer to make some cuts and changes and promise to re-release
the film without the offending portions.
But while everyone — from Narayan Rane’s son to sundry Sena leaders —
are objecting to their unfair portrayals, the one man it lampoons the
most – Raj Thackeray – is uncharacteristically silent.
I haven’t seen Jhenda yet but I am told that there is a scene where
Raj’s character dons a skullcap and attends an Iftaar party. I don’t
know how true that portrayal is, for in all my years I at least have
not seen Raj Thackeray in a skull cap at an Iftaar party. When Raj
launched his MNS he did mean to be all inclusive and there are many
Muslims in his party who are devoted to Bal Thackeray’s nephew. Yet
they have all taken a so-called `mature’ decision not to agitate or
protest.
It could be because Raj well realises that any protest will only help
the film at the box office and more people will end up seeing his
portrayal in an unflattering light than they would if he just gives it
the royal ignore. But, a little bird tells me, Raj has also been cut
down to size and is no longer sure what his protests will lead to.
At the constitution of the current Assembly in Maharashtra, he
protested against Samajwadi Party MLA Abu Asim Azmi taking his oath in
Hindi. That has led to another non-bailable warrant from a court in
Madhya Pradesh (in addition to cases pending against him in courts in
Bihar and Jharkhand, just transferred to Delhi by the Supreme Court))
and suddenly he has no Godfathers.
It is largely believed that the previous Congress government egged him
on against the Shiv Sena but the Assembly elections proved that Raj
was eating into even the Congress and the NCP voter base. So they have
no reason to nurture a Frankenstein’s Monster. But it may also be
true, as I have heard, that the Congress is also squeezing his
business interests to gag him into submission. Moreover, he needs to
keep is silence, again, to buy freedom for those of his MLAs who were
suspended for four years from the Maharashtra Assembly for beating up
Azmi for taking his oath in Hindi.
When I asked a top functionary in the government why those MLAs were
not expelled outright, he said, “If we had done that, it would have
led to by-elections and Raj Thackeray might have come back with a bang
and got more arrogant. This is our version of suspended animation; he
cannot now afford to create more trouble out of fear that there might
be more action that will actually pinch.’’
Without the alleged protection offered by the previous government, I
think Raj is now truly feeling that pinch. And the Sena is not far
behind in hoisting him with his own petard and, in addition, hoisting
its own flag — both the party standard and the celluloid variety.
But, still, I believe Chhatrapati …. was a far more intelligent film –
for one, it needed no cuts, for another it touched a chord with
Maharashtra’s youth — than Jhenda could ever be.
(3 votes, average: 3.67 out of 5)
Posted by Sujata Anandan on Friday, January 8, 2010 at 6:33 pm
Filed under India · Tagged Amitabh Bachchan, Bal Thackeray, bjp,
Congress, Lok Sabha polls, Mahesh Manjrekar, Raj Thackeray, Raj
Thackeray’s Maharashtra Navnirman Sena, Ram Gopal Verma’s Sarkar,
sarkar raj, Shiv Sainiks
14 Responses to “Jhenda ooncha rahe…”
Ashish Kolarkar says:
January 8, 2010 at 8:08 pm
Thanks Sujata for telling us about “Chhatrapati….” and its impact in
recent elections. I think so much has come in print/visual media about
Thackeray family that people have started losing interest in it. With
the desertion of Smita Thackeray the things have become too
intriguing. How come daughter-in-law basking under the glory of father-
in-law could leave the later at this stage for greater political
aspiration?
I’ve read a research paper which said that there is great similarity
in genes of nephew and Uncle. I think the Raj and Bal Thackeray prove
the theory. Raj has got cartooning and same eccentric nature from his
uncle. He is too unpredictable. He is on the threshold of finding his
identity after initial euphoria. It is time for him to invent more
tricks to be in the market with due help from ruling party.
Sujata Anandan Reply:
January 11th, 2010 at 6:15 pm
Yes, there is great similarity — and even in terms of events history
is repeating itself vis-a-vis Rraj Thackeray. Will write about those
by and by
Anil Kumar says:
January 8, 2010 at 9:39 pm
Congress will keep him alive.> he need not woory.> Congress always
creates fransktein .
Punjab was gifted Bhindarwale in order to check Akali Dal. Congressi
have no scruples when it coems to snatchign power they care two hoot
about even national interest.
Maharashtra was first gifted Baal thackrey to check labour uninsit and
communist’s rise. now we haevRaj Thackrey to check Baal thackreey
Assam have ben figted crores of illegal bangaldeshi
List goes on and on.
Country can go to dogs as long as these gimmciks insure perpetuation
fo power of congress they are fair game for anythign and everything
Pankaj Reply:
January 9th, 2010 at 11:08 am
country is with dogs and *******!
Sujata Anandan Reply:
January 11th, 2010 at 6:16 pm
You are right on all counts
bobby says:
January 9, 2010 at 1:28 pm
Raj may be silent also because there are no elections round the
corner.
Sujata Anandan Reply:
January 11th, 2010 at 6:17 pm
Well, the municipal elections are due next year which are crucila to
him in terms of his business interests across Bombay
Anil says:
January 9, 2010 at 11:31 pm
Narayan Rane and his son are doing more goonda giri than the entire
Thackrey clan put together. There is absolutely no unfair portrayal of
the the former. They should not crib. Any portrayal of their character
will be a milder version of their true self. Ranes have been the most
unscrupulous turncoats in Maharashtra politics. No fan of Shiv Sena
but Congress have won in Maratha land becuase of the infighting in
Sena. Haven’t seen ‘Zhenda’ but ‘ Mee Chhatrapati Boltoye’ by Mahesh
Manjrekar is a classic Marathi film
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BmqdU0tpRk
Sujata Anandan Reply:
January 11th, 2010 at 6:19 pm
However, the producer of jhenda has given in and agreed to delete the
offending scenes — that’s muscle power for you!
Sujata Anandan says:
January 11, 2010 at 6:18 pm
Well, the municipal elections are due next year which are crucial to
him in terms of his business interests…
Joe Zachs says:
January 18, 2010 at 1:43 pm
After watching Sarkar, I admire Ram Gopal Verma for how he hoodwinked
the vested interest into believing that it is a film about “His life”
A real master move Varma.
Dev says:
January 22, 2010 at 11:08 pm
I am reminded of a dialogue in a popular Hindi movie – Jhanda jish
desh ke bhi ho, danda Indian hona chahiye.
Mob rules OK.
Praveen Saxena says:
January 28, 2010 at 12:05 pm
The fact of the matter is that Raj Thakeray is a creation of the
Congress Party and a beneficiary of the mad rush 24×7 news channels.
The Congress has played these tricks in all states Maharashtra,
Punjab, Assam etc. The Kashmir mess is a result of the negligence
shown by the Congress govt at a crucial time.
The country ends paying the price for the dirty politics of the
Congress Party
Ashwatthama says:
February 6, 2010 at 11:20 am
Well Jhenda is way far superior film than Mi Shivaji…
I found MSRBB very stereotype and melodramatic and on the other side
Jhenda is extremely realistic and brilliant.
http://blogs.hindustantimes.com/singly-political/2010/01/08/jhenda-ooncha-rahe%e2%80%a6/#more-126
‘Wrong of Pawar to seek Sena nod’
HT Correspondent, Hindustan Times
Mumbai, March 20, 2010
First Published: 00:51 IST(20/3/2010)
Last Updated: 00:53 IST(20/3/2010)
Chief Minister Ashok Chavan has said it was wrong of people to go to
parties like the Shiv Sena to seek permission to screen a film or hold
cricket matches.
Chavan was referring to Union Agriculture Minister and NCP chief
Sharad Pawar’s meeting with Sena chief Bal Thackeray before the IPL
started to get an assurance from the Sena that the matches in Mumbai
pass peacefully.
This was soon after the Sena, protesting the attacks on Indians in
Australia, said it would not allow Australian cricketers to play in
the IPL.
“Yes, it is wrong,” Chavan said in an interview to Vir Sanghvi for
CNBC-TV18’s programme Off the Record with Vir Sanghvi.
Sanghvi had asked Chavan if he approved of people going to the likes
of Thackeray for permission for holding matches or screening movies.
“Sharad Pawarji is a senior leader. He is in the Union
government and they say he went to discuss the IPL matches and issues
like that….Yes, there were a lot of eyebrows raised and asking why did
he go?” Chavan said.
Chavan, in reply to another query, also said the Sena was losing
ground and the Maharashtra Navnirman Sena will probably be the main
opposition.
Chavan also talked about the trouble he was having with alliance
partner NCP in handling the Mumbai police. “There have been political
problems,” he said. “I don’t deny that…”
The CM also admitted that there was “politicisation” of the police
force. “We have to select people with integrity…,” he said.
“Looking at the situation during 26/11, we have been cautious. We have
to put a stop to all this and see that proper people handle jobs of
equal importance and men of integrity and people with strength and
courage and the determination to fight, take charge.”
On factionalism in the Mumbai police, Chavan said there have been
differences but they have been sorted out.
Tune in to Off the Record with Vir Sanghvi on CNBC-TV18 at 8 pm on
Saturday and 9 pm on Sunday.
http://www.hindustantimes.com/News-Feed/mumbai/Wrong-of-Pawar-to-seek-Sena-nod/Article1-521102.aspx
Goondas, mind your own business
By Khushwant Singh
Did Shah Rukh Khan and the Maharashtra government score a decisive
victory over the Shiv Sena by showing ‘My Name Is Khan’ in Mumbai’s
cinemas?
Did liberal elements in Karnataka score over Rama Sene by blackening
the face of Pramod Muthalik? Many of us think so and hope both senas
have been dumped on the garbage heap. Unfortunately that is not so.
Shiv Sena’s balloon has no doubt been somewhat deflated but not burst.
It was the same when Rahul Gandhi travelled by suburban train, walking
down streets of Mumbai — a one time performance. And Muthalik has
wiped that soot off his face and is leading his storm troopers to
impose his will on people who do not agree with him.
My reasoning is simple: you cannot put down subversive elements
without having a strong government, which can effectively deal with
bullies. Their strength is their ability to damage property and rough
up people: No one wants to lose his property and get beaten up. The
most vulnerable are mill owners, cinema hall proprietors, eateries and
film people.
They will be eager to patch up with the Thackerays and the Muthaliks.
Take it from me that soon SRK will come to an understanding with the
Thackerays. It has been done before. Sunil Dutt and his daughter Priya
Dutt of the Congress sought Bal Thackeray’s blessings before the
elections. So did Pritish Nandi to become Sena’s nominee to the Rajya
Sabha.
Bal Thackeray is happy to receive important people at his residence,
Matoshree. They kowtow to him and touch his feet while he sits on his
throne draped in saffron robes and rudraksh malas, looking like a
patriarch of all he surveys. He aches to be loved to and is as liberal
in his blessings as he is in offering visitors chilled beer.
I have never met his recalcitrant nephew Raj Thackeray but his modus
operandi is much the same as his uncle’s. So I fear the present
euphoria generated by the release of ‘My Name Is Khan’ is going to be
short-lived. We have yet to build up a mass support of those who can
confront these senas’s goondas and teach them how to mind their own
business.
Bharatrihari
Almora-born Ramesh Chandra Shah was a professor of English in Hamidia
College, Bhopal, till 1997. However, he won acclaim as a Hindi poet
and novelist and was honoured with several awards. He stumbled on
Bharatrihari’s poems in Sanskrit and decided to learn the language; to
be able to translate them into English. I published some selections in
‘Yojana’ and ‘The Illustrated Weekly of India’. It is a privilege to
publish some more a third time. The translations are in rubai form and
read as well as Fitzgarald’s translations of Omar Khayyam.
‘Thus Spoke Bharatrihari’ is divided into three sections: Niti
(polity), Sringar (erotica) and Vairagya (asceticism). First I give
examples of Sringar:
You are so lucky if you can admire The lineaments of satisfied desire
In your young bride; suck at her honey’s mouth And let her languor in
your arms retire And:
The bookful blockheads preaching self-restraint Do not consider what’s
really at stake Love’s play on passionate breasts and thighs once
known Such amorous raptures who can ever forsake.
In the third verse he rues the futility of life spent in making love:
The joy companionship of women brings Ends in despair and
disillusionment
Self-knowledge is the only certain good Leading to calm of mind, all
passions spent.
Finally the search for salvation:
Blest are the saints who from all passions free Possess their souls
and live in ecstasy With boundless space as garment and a bowl Of rice
as food and woods as company.
And:
Drunk with delusion’s ever tempting wine We mortals fail to see the
spark Divine
Caught in the vicious whirls of nights and days Our soul ne’er stops
to think of its decline Dress Code
Henry Ford II, son of Henry Ford I, who felt that his father was
generally improperly dressed and did not adhere to the correct dress
code, had the following conversation with him:
Henry Ford II: Dad, you are the biggest manufacturer of cars and a
very renowned person in America. Then why do you dress so shabbily?
Henry Ford I: Yes. I dress the way I like, as everyone in America
knows me as Henry Ford.
Henry Ford II: But, when you go abroad, there also you dress in the
same way, even in poshest of places.
Henry Ford I: Yes, of course, abroad also I dress the same way,
because there no one knows me as Henry Ford.
(Contributed by Colonel Trilok Mehrotra, Noida)
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/58941/goondas-mind-your-own-business.html
...and I am Sid Harth