'EVERYTHING YOU'VE HEARD ABOUT ISLAM IS TRUE' by Tim Dunkin

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and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)

2010-09-18 15:08:43 UTC

Everything you've heard about Islam is true

By Tim Dunkin
RenewAmerica
Wednesday, September 15, 2010

Once again, Islam has been in the news recently. And, as is typically
the case, the circumstances surrounding this state of affairs are not
positive, and the behavior of the Muslims involved provides yet
another public relations nightmare for a socio-religious system
already laboring under a mountain of self-inflicted wounds.

First, we have some crazy nut of an imam in New York City who wants
to build a triumphalistic "community center" (really, a mosque), just
two blocks from Ground Zero. As it turns out, this imam has a history
of doing all kinds of typically nutty Islamic things, such as calling
for the imposition of shari'a law in the United States. Imam Rauf has
managed to do what few others in America ever could, which is to
unite over 70% of the American people into opposition against
something. While some on the Left and in the Islamic community may
think that this whole "Ground Zero Mosque" affair is earning them
brownie points from a sympathetic public -- the dubious principle of
"any publicity is good publicity" seems to be in evidence here -- I
can assure them that this is not the case.

The second recent story about Islam was the declaration by a Florida
pastor named Terry Jones that his church was going to burn a
truckload of Qur'ans on the anniversary of 9-11. Personally, I think
that this proclamation was more a publicity stunt than anything else,
and I would caution conservatives and Christians against hitching
their wagons to Jones' horse. Pastor Jones is an apparent associate
of Fred Phelps and the Westboro "Baptist" Church out in Kansas -- a
cult group made up mostly of Phelps' own family, and which is most
well-known for picketing military funerals with signs saying things
like "God hates US soldiers" and so forth. As an aside, Phelps has
also in times past been a close associate of...Albert Gore, Jr.,
which leads me to suspect that Westboro "Baptist" Church is a front-
group used by the Left to try to tarnish the reputation of legitimate
Christianity in this country.

At any rate, what is disturbing about this affair is not the burning
of the Qur'an -- Jones has the right to do whatever he wants to with
his own property, which those Qur'ans presumably are. No, what is
disturbing is the typical Islamic response, which has ranged from
screeching idiots burning Bibles and US flags in front of American
embassies (to show us, I guess, that burning things is wrong) to
state-sanctioned death threats against Pastor Jones. It seems that
there are an awful lot of threats of murder from the Religion of
Peace, does it not? To people paying attention and who can get past
the "mean ol' pastor is gonna burn a holy book" superficiality, the
message about Islam is voluminous.

Unfortunately, we have a lot of people in this country who aren't
paying attention. As a result, there are a lot of myths about Islam
that people seem to believe because the news media and Muslim
propagandists tell them to believe them. I'd like to take this
opportunity to address a few of these myths.

So what do I know about Islam? I've spent the last nine years
studying it -- its theology, its history, its philosophy. Yes, I've
read the Qur'an. I've even picked up a little Arabic along the way,
though I'm certainly not fluent. I've read broadly on this subject,
from secular, Western, Christian, and Islamic sources themselves.
I've digested everything I could get my hands on, from the most
technical and academic works that probably only a couple of thousand
other people in the world have read, to the most puerile, blatant
rah-rah propaganda put out by Muslim publishing houses from all
across the Muslim world. I've grounded myself in a knowledge of the
social, political, historical, and cultural milieu of the ancient
Near East leading all the way up to the rise of Islam and beyond.
I've even written a book about the subject, entitled Ten Myths About
Islam. http://www.studytoanswer.net/islam_myths.html I am not
saying all this to toot my own horn. I am saying it so as to
demonstrate that I do, indeed, have some credibility to discuss this
topic that goes beyond "All I needed to know about Islam, I learned
on 9-11."

So let us start with the first pervasive myth that we often hear from
Muslims, which is that "Islam means peace." This argument represents
a common tactic that is used by Muslim apologists in the West, which
is to try to frame the discussion in such a way as to mislead, by
using Islamic terms that Muslims know Westerners will misconstrue. In
this case, it is technically true that the term "Islam" can mean
"peace" in Arabic. Islam is derived from the Arabic root form slm,
one of the meanings of which in Semitic languages can mean "peace"
(the Arabic word salaam is cognate with the Hebrew shalom, for
instance). However, as with all languages, the meaning of a word is
not determined by its denotation (its "dictionary" definition, so to
speak) only, but also by its connotation, the implied meaning that is
carried with the word in the minds of its native speakers.

In this case, "Islam" means peace -- but in a vastly different sense
from how Westerners and Americans think of it. When we hear the term
"peace," we think about people getting along together, people being
willing to tolerate each others' differences, and so forth. Not for
Islam. Islam's view of "peace" has to do with the other connotative
meaning of "Islam," which is "submission." Indeed, the term "Muslim"
most perfectly means "one who has submitted." For the Muslim, "peace"
means the absence of conflict that arises when there are no other
belief systems besides Islam. The way Islam brings peace to a land is
by terminating the existence, by one means or another, of all other
ways of life. Peace exists when everyone has submitted to the Islamic
system, either by converting or by accepting a position as third-
class citizens in their own countries. And of course, dead men tell
no tales.

Hence, when a Muslim tells you that "Islam means peace," he is being
truthful, but in a dishonest way. He is counting on you to apply your
definition of "peace" to the statement, when the Muslim really has in
mind his connotation of the term -- which is a far different thing
indeed.

This is, obviously, a form of lying, which brings me to my second
point, which is the claim often voiced that Muslim and Judeo-
Christian ethics and morals are the same, or at least are compatible,
allowing them to exist side by side in a pluralistic society. They
are not. While the Judeo-Christian tradition values things like
honesty, the Islamic does not. Indeed, the example given above of the
way Muslims approach the term "peace" is an example of taqiyya, which
is a device used by Muslims whereby they are allowed to lie to
infidels for the sake of concealing damaging information about Islam,
or to protect themselves. Using taqiyya, a Muslim may freely present
false or misleading information about Islam to an unbeliever, so long
as some sort of advancement of Islam is made. This may mean making
false claims, lying about terminology, or breaking an oath or treaty
once it becomes advantageous to Muslims to do so (more on this
below). Taqiyya is often coupled with kitman, which describes "mental
reservation" that Muslims will have when they outwardly engage in un-
Islamic behavior so as to fool an infidel. For instance, a Muslim may
present himself to Westerners as "moderate" or "assimilated" by
eating pork or drinking alcohol, relying upon his "mental
reservation" that he really disagrees with what he himself is doing,
but has to do it so as to stay "undercover," so to speak, thereby
absolving him of the act before Allah.

The Qur'an reports that the breaking of oaths to the infidel was
approved by Allah,

"Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather
than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from
Allah: except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from
them. But Allah cautions you (To remember) Himself; for the final
goal is to Allah." (Surah 3:28)"

In context, the text is telling Muslims that they may not take
infidels as friends -- unless doing so can be used to advance Islam,
in which case, Muslims may present themselves as false friends. The
use of dishonesty to gain the upper hand against the enemies of Islam
is demonstrated clearly in the ahadith (saying attributed to Mohammed
that are used to "fill out" the Qur'an). For instance, in one
situation, Mohammed absolved a Muslim warrior in advance because he
was going to have to use deception to fulfill his vow to kill an
enemy of Mohammed,

"According to Ibn Humayd- Salamah- Muhammad b. Ishaq- 'Abd Allah b.
Al- Mughith b. Abi Burdah: The Prophet said, "Who will rid me of Ibn
al-Ashraf?" Muhammad b. Maslamah, the brother of the Banu 'Abd al-
Ashshal said, "I will rid you of him, O Messenger of God. I will kill
him." "Do it then," he said, "if you can." Muhammad b. Maslamah went
back and remained for three days, neither eating nor drinking more
than would keep him alive. The

Messenger of God got to hear of this, so he summoned him and said to
him, "Why have you left off food and drink?" "O Messenger of God," he
said, "I said something, and I do not know whether or not I can
fulfill it." "All that you are obliged to do is try," he replied. "O
Messenger of God," he said, "we shall have to tell lies." "Say what
you like," he replied, "You are absolved in the matter." (from the
History of al-Tabari, Vol 7, p. 95)

Modern Muslim commentators agree -- Islam allows lying when it helps
Islam,

"Falsehood is not always bad, to be sure; there are times when
telling a lie is more profitable and better for the general welfare,
and for the settlement of conciliation among people, than telling the
truth. To this effect, the Prophet says: 'He is not a false person
who settles conciliation among people, supports good or says what is
good." (A. al-Tabbarah, The Spirit of Islam, p. 255)

Keep in mind that "what is good" most definitely, for the faithful
Muslim, includes advancing Islam. Likewise, "settling conciliation
among people" can be construed as helping to establish the "peace"
that Muslims believe they are called to establish on earth.

One very pertinent outflowing of the taqiyya principle is that of the
hudna, or treaty of convenience. In such a case, Muslims are allowed
to make peace treaties with infidels, and then break them once they
have regained their strength and believe themselves to have the upper
hand again. The example of a hudna par excellence is found in the
Muslim mythology surround Mohammed. Mohammed negotiated a 10-year
peace treaty with the Meccans, against whom he had been fighting.
However, several years before the end of the treaty terms and once he
felt he had sufficient strength to defeat the Meccans, he launched a
surprise attack on Mecca and took the city. We see hudnas being
employed today in the many "peace agreements" that the Palestinians
and other Muslims will make with Israel, but will then break with
impunity once they think they have some sort of upper hand. They make
these agreements knowing full well that they do not intend to honor
the treaty stipulations. And, again, this is fully justified from the
Muslim traditions,

"And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people
(assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that Allah and His
Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans...." (Surah
9:3)

Treaties made with unbelievers can be dissolved when the time comes
to dissolve them. This is why the Palestinians constantly declare
cease fires with the Israelis, but once they replenish their stocks
of rockets and mortars, they start firing at the Jews again without
warning. They never intended to honor the cease fires any longer than
it took for the next load of explosives to be smuggled in from Egypt.

All of this talk of war and broken treaties leads to my next point,
which is to address the claim that "Islam is a peaceful religion" and
that violent Muslims "only make up a small minority." As we saw with
their definition of peace" above, when Muslims talk about Islam being
a peaceful religion, they mean that it is a religion with a tendency
to try to force other religions and ways of life to submit to Islam -
- though that's not what they want you to think. Islam does, indeed,
have a long history of bloody conquest under the banner of jihad.
Indeed, most of the people groups across the world who are Muslim did
not get that way by peaceful persuasion. The Syrians? Conquered by
Muslim Arabs. The Egyptians? Conquered by Muslim Arabs. The Berbers
of North Africa? You guessed it -- conquered by Muslim Arabs. The
Indians who now make up what is today Pakistan? The Persians? The
Greeks in Asia Minor? The Bosnians? The Azerbaijanis? Yep, you
guessed it.

What's more, this violence to spread Islam is the rule, not the
exception. The Qur'an and the ahadith contain numerous injunctions
urging Muslims to fight against unbelievers. The sirat (biographies
of Mohammed written by early Muslims) contain numerous examples of
offensive violence on the part of Mohammed -- who is viewed by
Muslims as the supreme example to be emulated. For any Muslim to deny
that their religious writings are full of commands to offensive jihad
is simply and outrageously dishonest. Indeed, though most faithful,
traditionalist Muslims may not themselves be violent, they
nevertheless do support the principles of establishing Islam by the
sword, and often support the more radical elements who are
perpetrating violence.

Muslims will try to rebut this bloody history by using the tu quoque
fallacy, that is, they will try to distract away from the violence of
their own religion by trying to point to somebody else's. "What about
the Crusades?" they might say. Well, what about the Crusades? Those
were largely defensive wars designed to stop the Muslim threat to
Europe and to take back lands that had formerly been part of
Christendom, but had been forcibly taken for Islam. Further, the
Crusades were as much a secular as they were a religious enterprise.
Trying to use the Crusades as a counterbalance to fourteen centuries
of spreading Islam offensively by the sword is ridiculous.

Further, while the Qur'an and the ahadith explicitly command faithful
Muslims to wage "holy" war, the same cannot be said for the Bible. To
the extent that there was religious impetus behind the Crusades, that
was in spite of, rather than because of, the teaching of New
Testament Christianity. Nowhere in the life and times of Jesus Christ
do we see any example set by which faithful Christians would be
provoked to commit acts of violence against others for the sake of
spreading their religion. Indeed, the New Testament says exactly the
opposite,

"For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: (For
the weapons of our warfare [are] not carnal, but mighty through God
to the pulling down of strong holds...)" (II Corinthians 10:3-4)

To the extent that a Christian has a warfare for the sake of his
religion, it is a spiritual warfare. Anything else cannot rightly be
called "Christian."

This leads to another one of those counterintuitive falsehoods that
Muslims will tell us -- that jihad only refers to defensive warfare,
not offensive. The only time Muslims would ever engage in jihad, we
are told, is if they are attacked first.

There are several problems with this argument. First, it is simply
refuted by Islam's own history. For thirteen centuries, Muslims
routinely appealed to jihad for the advancement of Islam, to bring
more and more parts of the world into the deen (way of life) of
Islam. Historically, Muslims themselves have always understood that
jihad means offensive warfare. In fact, they were completely cool
with this. The initial Arab expansion was labeled a jihad. The Turks
justified their incursions into Europe on the basis of jihad. It
wasn't until the latter half of the 20th century, when it became
fashionable to portray the Muslim world as third-world victims of
horrible (Christian) European imperialism, that Muslim apologists
started arguing that jihad was only waged in self-defense. Before
that, jihad was something Muslims were proud to rely upon to prove to
the infidels that Islam was superior, by forcibly subjugating the
infidels to the Islamic way of life.

Oh, and never let anyone tell you that jihad only refers to some sort
of peaceful, inner struggle against temptation and sin. That is
completely unmitigated nonsense that has no historical, factual basis
whatsoever.

Another problem with the Muslim taqiyya about jihad is the definition
of "are attacked first." In the eyes of faithful Muslims, any slight
against Islam is an "attack." Supporting Israel is an "attack."
Allowing cartoonists to draw naughty pictures of Mohammed is an
"attack." The French legislature banning the burqah is an attack." It
doesn't matter if these "attacks" take place entirely within one of
our own countries -- it's still an attack upon Islam. Radical Muslims
have already, and will continue to, use these as pretexts for waging
holy war against the West. Their "defensive" war ends up being pretty
offensive, when you get right down to it.

The third problem with the "defensive war" argument lies in Islam's
peculiar view of world history. In the Islamic system, once a piece
of territory comes under Muslim control, by all rights it has to stay
under Muslim control. Any removal of land or populations from the
control of Islam, then, becomes a pretext for perpetual warfare to
regain it to whatever extent Muslims are able to wage it -- even if
the territory and populations were liberating themselves from Muslim
imperialism. This is much (but not all) of the reason why Muslims
hate Israel -- "Palestine" was ruled by Islam for over thirteen
centuries, so even though it is the Jews' own homeland, they no
longer have any right to it, in the Islamic worldview. The same goes
for any other place where Islam once ruled, but no longer does. Take,
for instance, Spain. The Spanish waged a centuries-long struggle to
liberate their own country from Islamic domination. The Muslims, in
turn, view the Spanish as having committed a grave affront to Allah.
This explains, for example, the statements about reclaiming "Al-
Andalus" (Spain) for Islam in some of Osama bin-Laden's videotaped
ramblings. What bin-Laden was saying is that Islam needs to reconquer
Spain.

As an aside, this ought to cause us to stop and think about some of
the odd, weird claims about history that Muslims will often make. For
instance, they claim that Offa, an early Anglo- Saxon king, converted
to Islam (without, of course, any historical evidence at all).
Likewise, a common Muslim claim is that Muslims discovered the New
World before Europeans, and even that the name "California" comes
from "Al- Kalifiyyah" (the Caliphate), supposedly showing that
Muslims had colonized it first. As laughable as these claims are,
what they really amount to is an attempt to give Islam a pretext for
waging this "defensive" jihad against the United Kingdom and the
United States, since our two countries supposedly were "once Muslim"
and need to be "returned" to the Islamic caliphate. The purpose for
these seemingly ridiculous-but-innocuous historical revisions is
really to "prepare the ground" for further warfare.

While we're on the subject of how Muslims deal with non-Muslim
peoples, let's talk about something called dhimmitude. It is not
uncommon for Muslim apologists in the West to declare that, along
with its astounding peacefulness and love for soft, cuddly teddy
bears, Islam is also a tolerant system, one in which Muslims and non-
Muslims live together in peace and harmony. Conversions to Islam,
they say, are voluntary and made by those who realized the truth and
logic of Islam.

Well, no. Historically, when Islam has conquered a country, one of
two sets of circumstances usually attained. If the country was not
one populated by "people of the Book" (i.e. Christians, Jews, or
Zoroastrians), then the population usually suffered an initial frenzy
of rapine, pillage, and bloodletting, followed by the imposition of
Islam onto whoever was left (for instance, this makes up a good deal
of Indian history from the 8th to the 19th centuries). If the country
was populated by "People of the Book," then the inhabitants were
given the "three choices" -- death, dhimmitude, or conversion.

Dhimmitude is, essentially, the reduction of a native population who
didn't want to die, but yet who also didn't want to convert to Islam,
to a place of third-class citizenship within their own country. The
origin of this institution lay in the dhimma, a "treaty" which
victorious Muslims would force onto conquered populations in which
the Muslims agreed to "protect" the infidels in return for their
(involuntary) support of the Islamic state and their humility before
Muslims. Think of it, in a sense, as a giant, worldwide protection
racket.

Dhimmis, as the infidels are then known, could continue to practice
their religion, but they could not in any way let it be publicly
seen. They were not allowed to rebuild or repair churches or
synagogues which fell into disrepair. They were not allowed to ring
bells or issue calls to prayer. They certainly were not allowed to
evangelize or to dispute about religion with Muslims. No dhimmi
church or synagogue could stand taller than the local Muslim mosque -
- if they did, the steeples would be knocked down. Dhimmis also had
to pay a special, prohibitive tax called the jizyah, which was levied
only upon conquered populations.

On a personal level, no dhimmi could hold any sort of public office,
could not testify in court against a Muslim, could not pursue any
legal action against Muslims, or even seek redress should they be
cheated or stolen from by a Muslim. They could not ride upon a horse,
and had to dismount from a donkey if in the presence of a Muslim
(these were signs of humiliation and the superiority of the Muslim).
In many districts, dhimmis had to wear special clothing that clearly
marked them out for ridicule and separation.

All in all, the purpose of these disabilities was to "encourage" the
dhimmis to convert to Islam. Either way, dhimmis supported the
Islamic state, either through their taxes, or by becoming Muslim and
lending their manpower to it. However, the prime purpose was to force
the conquered populations to adopt Islam. This is shown historically.
In the very early Islamic state after Muslims had conquered much of
the Middle East and North Africa, these dhimma stipulations had not
yet been implemented, and consequently Muslims remained a small
minority among a sea of conquered peoples. Around the middle of the
8th century, however, a series of hardline caliphs came to power who
began to lay greater and greater hardships on these populations. It
is only then that we find in the archaeological and historical
records that significant numbers of people began to convert to Islam.
Clearly, the penalties were what did the converting, not the logical
sense and reason of the Islamic religious system.

Another thing that often happened in dhimmi lands was the destruction
and/or conversion of their major buildings, religious or secular,
into symbols of Islamic superiority. For instance, when the Turks
conquered Constantinople, they turned the Hagia Sofia into a mosque -
- specifically to show the superiority of Islam over Christianity. In
the same way, they converted the Church of St. John in Damascus into
the Great Mosque of the Umayyads. The Temple Mount in Jerusalem was
coopted, and the Dome of the Rock was built, taking Judaism's holiest
site, and converting it into an Islamic centerpiece.

And that, folks, is what the Ground Zero Mosque is really all about.
The World Trade Center had long been the object of Muslim hatred,
since it represented in their eyes the power and capacity of Western
commercialism and capitalism (both of which are inimical to
traditional Islam). Islam felt that it won a great victory the day
Muslim terrorists brought the towers down on September 11, 2001. By
building a mosque at the site of the towers' destruction, this is a
way of proclaiming the superiority of Islam over America and the
American way of life. What once was the center of American capitalist
power will soon have a Muslim mosque on it, if Rauf gets his way --
and that will send a message to the entire Muslim world that America
is a dhimmi land.

There are many, many more things I could discuss in this essay --
I've only really touched on some of the major points in which Muslims
will try to persuade people that what they see before their own eyes
is not really true. I could discuss any number of other areas --
Muslim anti-Semitism, the treatment of women, the false claims about
Islam being "the fastest growing religion in the world," the eclectic
and manmade origins of the Qur'an, even such surprising topics as the
likelihood that Mohammed as a historical person probably didn't
really exist, or that Allah is not the same as the God of the Bible,
but is instead a monotheistic form of the ancient Middle Eastern moon
and fertility god Hubal. Again, please check out my book online to
see discussion of these and a whole lot more.

The take home message is this -- don't let yourself be sidetracked by
the propaganda. History tells us something far different from what
the apologists tell us who are trying to convince us that a Ground
Zero mosque is a great yet innocuous thing, or that Muslims only hate
Israel because the "Palestinian homeland" was ruthlessly stolen by
rapacious, imperialistic Zionists. Once we begin to see how the
Muslims actually think about things, we can understand why they do
many of the things they do, and be forewarned about what their next
moves may be. Make no mistake -- there IS a clash of civilizations
going on. It is one which Islam has initiated, but which we must be
prepared to face and fight if we are to maintain our culture,
civilization, and way of life.

More at:
http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/dunkin/100915

Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
Om Shanti

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2010-09-19 00:04:13 UTC

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2010-09-19 00:59:45 UTC

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navanavonmilita

2010-09-21 15:37:26 UTC

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Mahmoud Ahmedinejad’s Charm Offensive
http://cogitoergosum.co.cc/2010/09/21/mahmoud-ahmedinejads-charm-offensive/

Iranian Snake Charmer

Mahmoud Ahmedinejad's Charm Offensive
Iran’s Near Abroad

Beset by global sanctions, Iran’s leaders go local.
BY HALEY SWEETLAND EDWARDS | SEPTEMBER 20, 2010

TBILISI, GEORGIA — Road signs along the highway heading east to
Tbilisi, the Georgian capital, note Tehran — almost 800 miles away and
separated by the entire country of Azerbaijan — as an upcoming
destination. On a recent road trip, a Georgian friend of mine swerved
to the shoulder, pointing and laughing, so we could take pictures of
it. But, however much the inclusion of Tehran may be a source of
amusement, it is also a symbol of Iran’s recent efforts to expand its
influence in the South Caucasus — efforts that Georgians have
cautiously embraced.

Unlike its rabblerousing in much of the Middle East, Iran’s
involvement in Georgia, Armenia, and Azerbaijan has been guided not by
religious ideology, but by pragmatic economic and geopolitical goals.
In fact, judging from Tehran’s vigorous diplomacy this past summer,
Iran may prove to be a decisive stabilizing force in the long-volatile
South Caucasus. Some optimistic analysts even suggest that Iran’s
“good behavior” in a strategically important part of the world could
mark the first steps — baby steps, perhaps — toward rapprochement
between Washington and Tehran.

COMMENTS (4)

In the past year, Iranian officials have trekked to Georgia, Armenia,
and Azerbaijan to announce a series of investments in bilateral
economic projects and symbolic friendship-building, including the
unilateral waiver of visa requirements for Azeri and Georgian citizens
traveling to Iran, and an offer to mediate between Armenia and
Azerbaijan in the two countries’ longstanding dispute over Nagorno-
Karabakh, a separatist region in southwest Azerbaijan claimed by
ethnic Armenians. Tehran also recently announced it would partner with
Tbilisi to build a new Georgian hydropower plant.

This summer, Mikheil Saakashvili, the staunchly pro-American Georgian
president, made a point of publicly inviting his Iranian counterpart,
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, to Tbilisi, an event that followed reciprocal
visits by the nations’ highest-ranking ministers. And while Iranian
support for Armenia is nothing new, Tehran’s proposal this past summer
to build a $1.2 billion railroad linking the two countries is seen as
a critical economic rescue plan for Yerevan, which has suffered for
its economic and political isolation from Azerbaijan and Turkey — the
biggest reminder of which was its exclusion from the Baku-Tbilisi-
Ceylon gas pipeline, which begins near the Azeri capital and runs
through Georgia, around Armenia, and ends on Turkey’s Black Sea coast.
This month, Tehran expressed interest in buying nearly 10 times as
much gas from Baku as it did last year, and has repeated its desire to
build a 200-mile oil pipeline from Azerbaijan to the Persian Gulf in
the future.

So what’s with the Caucasian love affair?

Sheer pragmatism. Other regional powers have made no qualms about
exploiting the Caucasus to flex their military, diplomatic, and
economic muscle. Russia has become increasingly territorial in the
area since its August 2008 war with Georgia. In 2008, Moscow agreed to
build Russian military outposts in Georgia’s breakaway territories of
Abkhazia and South Ossetia, and last month, Moscow and Yerevan signed
an agreement that will keep Russian troops in Armenia until 2044.
Turkey, the other large regional power, has also increased its
influence in the South Caucasus in recent years, through economic
deals and with diplomatic promises to end the region’s frozen
conflicts.

Iran, meanwhile, has largely been left to watch its influence decline.
Facing these threats to its regional importance — in addition to a
fresh round of EU, U.S., and Kremlin-backed U.N. sanctions, internal
unrest and an array of external military threats — Tehran has chosen
to fight back with vigorous diplomatic campaigns in its near abroad.
“Iran is trying to contribute in a meaningful way to the security and
stability in the South Caucasus in order to impress upon everyone the
legitimacy and credibility of its role as a regional player,” notes
Steven Blank, an analyst at the U.S. Army’s Strategic Studies
Institute. “It’s a pragmatic maneuver above all else.”

Iran’s primary motivation, Blank said, is to keep other countries,
particularly the United States, from getting too chummy on its
northern border. For Iran, which borders Iraq, Afghanistan, and
Pakistan — all wobbly nations with a significant U.S. military
presence — a U.S. military base in the South Caucasus would be a
disaster. Iran is calculating that the way to prevent that from
happening is through strengthened alliances — or at least mitigated
ill-will — with Georgia, Armenia and Azerbaijan. “The message they
keep repeating is: We are friends, we are economic partners, but if
you allow a U.S. base on your soil, very bad things will happen to
you,” says a Georgian executive who spoke anonymously in order not to
compromise his relationship with Iranian officials. “They are
friendly, but the message is clear.”

Iranian-Georgian relations grew cold following Georgia’s 2008
extradition to the U.S. of an Iranian citizen on charges of smuggling,
money laundering, and conspiracy. In January, however, in a decision
the Georgian president called “an effort to keep one’s enemies
closer,” Tehran publicly extended an olive branch, sending a handful
of its highest-ranking ministers to Tbilisi. Since then, Iran has
deployed its soft power, arranging to send 15,000 Iranian tourists on
chartered planes to Georgia’s struggling Black Sea resorts, and
emphasizing long-standing historical and cultural ties between the two
countries. Georgia was under sporadic Persian control from the fourth
to the 18th centuries and Farsi words pepper modern Georgian. An
estimated 12,000 ethnic Georgians still live in Iran.

With Russo-Georgian relations in tatters, Iran’s ambassador to
Georgia, Majid Saber, has worked hard to style Tehran as Tbilisi’s
only reliable friend and ally. “No U.S. help was there when you needed
it most,” Saber told reporters in Tbilisi in May, citing the George W.
Bush administration’s unwillingness to defend Georgia militarily
during the 2008 Russo-Georgian war. “Real friendship is demonstrated
in hard times.”

In Azerbaijan, Iran has recently renewed its calls for the resolution
of regional problems — like the demarcation of Caspian Sea energy
resources and the stubborn Nagorno-Karabakh conflict — by regional,
not international, actors. But Tehran’s foreign policy there is
primarily shaped by Tehran’s fear of a separatist uprising among
Iran’s ethnic Azeris, which make up a quarter of the Iranian
population. That fear has served to temper Iran’s encouragement of
either religious ideology or nationalism in Shiite Azerbaijan. While
Iran’s offer to mediate Nagorno-Karabakh is likely to be ignored by
both Azerbaijan and the OSCE, which oversees the diplomatic mission
there, Iran has in the past served as an even-keeled mediator in the
conflict zone, prizing stability over Islamic fraternity along its
northern border.

The nations of the South Caucasus — all of which receive U.S. aid,
investment and support to one degree or another — have accepted
Tehran’s recent overtures of friendship graciously, but cautiously.
Georgia alone has received a whopping $4.5 billion from Western
funders in the past two years, and can’t afford to burn bridges with
Washington.

“We’re in a kind of Bermuda triangle here. Georgia needs U.S. support,
but it needs friendly relations with its neighbors, too,” says
Alexander Rondeli, president of the Georgian Foundation for Strategic
and International Studies in Tbilisi. While the United States has
watched Iranian influence in the region closely, it has not yet
insisted its allies cut ties with Tehran. “They understand we are a
small nation, stuck in the middle. We have Iranian investors, Israeli
investors, Turkish investors. We can’t afford to alienate anyone. It
is in our interest to keep Russia from having all the cards here,”
Rondeli says.

Above all, Iran’s diplomatic overtures are about one issue: energy.
Iran, which sits on 18 percent of the world’s gas supply, has had its
eye for years on becoming a transit route for Caspian Sea oil
resources to the Persian Gulf. It has also proposed to extend its gas
pipeline, which already runs from Iran to Armenia, further north to
Georgia and states in eastern Europe. Georgia, desperate to reduce its
dependency on pricey and unpredictable Russian gas, has been amenable
to the idea, and Armenia, desperate for economic ties, would benefit
from the transit route as well.

The real economic and geopolitical dividends of all this Iranian
diplomacy in the South Caucasus are mostly theoretical at this point.
For example, an Iranian business community that has developed a taste
for the lucrative transit market might act a moderating force on the
Iranian government. For another, Iran’s willingness to behave
diplomatically and encourage stability in the Caucasus could produce a
potential backchannel through which Tehran is able to begin to soften
its 30-year history of isolation from the West.

Realistically, though, that’s not likely to happen any time soon. Iran-
watchers caution that Tehran’s ambition may exceed its true reach.
Another east-west pipeline from Azerbaijan, through Georgia, to Turkey
— from which Iran was deliberately excluded — is already in the works.
Neither Moscow, which currently has a chokehold on the European gas
supply, nor Washington, with its policy of containment of Iran, are
likely to allow Iranian pipelines to reach Europe. Politics aside, the
gas industry hardly sees Iran as a reliable supplier. And despite big
talk, real economic partnerships between Iran, Armenia, and Azerbaijan
are still small. In 2008, for instance, only about 1 percent of
Georgian imports were Iranian.

Even if everything goes Iran’s way in the South Caucuses, it doesn’t
amount to a long-term strategy for the Islamic Republic. Rapprochement
with the West doesn’t seem to be in the cards, and it’s unclear how
increased regional trade will counter the effects of international
sanctions. If Tehran has a grand strategy, it seems to be oriented
toward the acquisition of nuclear weapons. At some point, one
imagines, that’s also going to have to be the subject of discussion
between Iran and its neighbors.

COMMENTS (4)

EMREE
6:55 PM ET
September 20, 2010

yeah

Iran, meanwhile, has largely been left to watch its influence decline.
Facing these threats to its regional importance — in addition to a
fresh round of EU, U.S., and Kremlin-backed U.N. sanctions, internal
unrest and an array of external military threats — Tehran has chosen
to fight back with vigorous diplomatic campaigns in its near abroad.
“Iran is trying to contribute in a meaningful way to the security and
stability in the South Caucasus in order to impress upon everyone the
porno legitimacy and credibility of its role as a regional player,”
notes Steven Blank, an analyst at the U.S. Army’s Strategic Studies
Institute. “It’s a pragmatic maneuver above all else.”
yeaah

KASEMAN
9:17 AM ET
September 21, 2010

gringo centric bs

Azeris are well integrated into Iranian society witness that Supremo
Khamenei and Moussavi are Azeris as are many other Azeris in prominent
positions

Iranian gas will go to China. The huge 5 bcf/day CNCP gas pipeline
taking Turkmen gas to China will be at the Iranian border by 2015.ie.
1000 kms from the mega Pars gas field in the Gulf.

Get yourself beyond the Beltway stink tanks

BAKINETS
9:18 AM ET
September 21, 2010

attention FP.com editors!!

I was not aware that the oil pipeline starting in Baku and passing by
Tbilisi terminated in colonial Sri Lanka! Nor that the distance from
Azerbaijan to the Persian Gulf was 200 miles! Nor that another
Azerbaijan-Georgia-Turkey pipeline is “in the works.” (It’s called the
South Caucasus Pipeline, and it’s been operating for several years.) I
could go on . . . .

NAVANAVONMILITA
11:08 AM ET
September 21, 2010

Iran’s Near Abroad

I think FP and HALEY SWEETLAND EDWARDS are talking trash. Not the
first time for FP.

However, I give a big thmbs up to FP for bringing this diplomatic
concert, oops, opera bouffe out in the open. Something FP is famous
for.

Vulgarity aside, it is important to know the diplomatic or
undiplomatic efforts, oops, affairs of Iran. Having resolved to make
atom bombs on the side, that is to say, as byproducts while
establishing her atomic energy resources, Iran can step up to the
plate and hit at anything and everything in her sights.

I remember, if FP doesn’t, that Persia was ruling this part of the
world longer than, say USA. It is not only Iranian diplomacy but her
innate desire to be the sole power, if not power broker, around these
backwaters no matter who can do what to her. USA, Russia, UN and any
other US clients.

If USA can manipulate the weaklings so can Iran. It is an open season.
Charm politics is not a private preserve of USA. Backslapping and
armtwisting that USA is so accustomed to is in the past. Iranian
president, Mahmoud Ahmedinejidad can up the ante anytime he wishes.

Confrontation with one’s enemy, as is evident in America’s several
wars, first Iraq war, the second Iraq war, the first Afghanistan war
and perhaps, god forbid, the second Afghanistan war have produced what
for America?

More chaos, more hatred, more destabilization, more distrust, more
humiliation and more unresolved problems. I didn’t mention, more
money. Billions and billions of American money. America cannot go on
throwing money at real or imaginary monsters in the middle east.

It is better that America stop fooling around, go home and help those
poor, homeless, jobless Americans. Let the world go to hell, oops,
pieces.

Peace.

http://cogitoergosum.co.cc/

…and I am Sid Harth

News, Views and Reviews

21/09/2010

« You’re Cheatin’ Heart, Bosso

cogitoergosum

2010-09-23 23:30:32 UTC

Permalink

Of Terrorism and a Glamor Girl
http://cogitoergosum.co.cc/2010/09/23/of-terrorism-and-a-glamor-girl/

Dr Aafia Siddiqui Guilty

Pakistani scientist gets 86 years for Afghan attack

By Kiran Khalid, CNN
September 23, 2010 5:16 p.m. EDT

STORY HIGHLIGHTS

Aafia Siddiqui was convicted in a U.S. court in February
Prosecutors said she tried to kill Americans in Afghanistan
Her attorney calls Siddiqui “an enigma”

New York (CNN) — A federal judge Thursday sentenced a Pakistani
scientist convicted of attempting to kill Americans in Afghanistan to
86 years in prison.

A jury in Manhattan convicted Aafia Siddiqui on seven charges,
including attempted murder and armed assault on U.S. officers, in
February. She will serve her sentence at a facility in Texas where she
was previously held while awaiting trial.

Prosecutors said Siddiqui picked up a rifle and shot at two FBI
special agents, a U.S. Army warrant officer, an Army captain and
military interpreters while she was being held unrestrained at an
Afghan facility on July 18, 2008. The agents returned fire shooting
her in the abdomen.

Afghan police had arrested her outside the Ghazni governor’s compound
in central Afghanistan after finding her with bomb-making
instructions, excerpts from the “Anarchist’s Arsenal,” papers with
descriptions of U.S. landmarks, and substances sealed in bottles and
glass jars, according to the charges.

The indictment said Siddiqui had “handwritten notes that referred to a
‘mass casualty attack’” listing several locations in the United States
and “construction of ‘dirty bombs.’” Upon her conviction, the American-
educated neuroscientist, blasted the decision as “a verdict from
Israel, not America.” Siddiqui’s family said she had been unjustly
convicted.

At her sentencing Thursday morning, the 38 year-old MIT graduate shook
her head in defiance and wagged her finger in a “no” gesture as U.S.
District Judge Richard M. Berman laid out the case against her.

But Siddiqui was more subdued when Berman allowed her to speak before
the packed courtroom filled with family, spectators and foreign and
national press.

Clad in a khaki suit and a hijab that covered most of her face,
Siddiqui repeatedly asked her Muslim supporters to not “get
emotional.”

“I don’t want any violence in my name,” Siddiqui said of
demonstrations in her native Pakistan, where her case has become a
cause celebre. “If you do anything for me, please educate people about
Islam because people don’t understand that it is a religion of mercy.”

Before the judge sentenced Siddiqui to more than eight decades in
prison, defense attorney Dawn Cardi told the court that it was the
most difficult case of her career.

“Dr. Siddiqui is an enigma,” Cardi said of her client, who had
attempted multiple times to fire her team of attorneys hired by the
government of Pakistan. Cardi said there were many unanswered
questions in her client’s case, including where she was between the
years of 2003 and 2008, when Siddiqui claims to have been held in a
secret prison.

“The government has not admitted to secret prisons or torture. But the
information is going to come out,” Cardi said, noting that solitary
confinement had taken a visible toll on Siddiqui who “had diminished
mental capacity.”

Since 2003, the whereabouts of Siddiqui had been the source of much
speculation. According to Amnesty International, Siddiqui and her
three small children were reported apprehended in Karachi, Pakistan,
in March 2003, shortly after the FBI issued an alert requesting
information about her location.

Several reports indicated that Siddiqui was in U.S. custody after her
arrest in Karachi. But in May 2004, then-Attorney General John
Ashcroft and FBI Director Robert Mueller identified Siddiqui as being
among several sought-after al Qaeda members.

Siddiqui was extradited to the United States in August 2008, after the
shooting incident.

“We are going to look back on this era in our country and we are going
to say that fear is what drove our sentences,” Cardi said.

“Despite the fact that this is a woman of peace who has repeatedly
said she doesn’t support any acts of vengeance in her name, I fear
that the injustice done to her will cause outrage throughout the
Muslim world,” said Tina Foster, executive director or International
Justice Network and spokesperson for the Siddiqui family.

Manhattan U.S. Attorney Preet Bharara hailed the sentence, commending
federal and military investigators in the case.

“As a unanimous jury found beyond a reasonable doubt, Aafia Siddiqui
attempted to murder Americans serving in Afghanistan, as well as their
Afghan colleagues. She now faces the stiff consequences of her violent
actions.”

But Elaine Sharp, one of Siddiqui’s defense attorneys, said, “We just
put someone in prison for the rest of her life who is mentally ill.”

CNN’s Kiran Khalid contributed to this report.

JFAC ‘saddened’ by harsh sentence on Aafia
By ARAB NEWS

Published: Sep 23, 2010 23:55 Updated: Sep 23, 2010 23:55

The Justice for Aafia Coalition (JFAC), an umbrella body for a number
of organizations, groups, and activists created in February 2010 to
campaign for the release and return of Aafia Siddiqui and for the
opening of a full investigation into the circumstances of her
detention, expressed shock at the harsh sentence passed on Dr. Aafia
Siddiqui.

The JFAC’s statement released soon after the Pakistani neuroscientist
and mother of three Aafia Siddiqui was sentenced to 86 years on five
charges by Judge Berman in a Manhattan courtroom, said: “We are deeply
saddened by the harsh sentence passed on Dr. Aafia Siddiqui by Judge
Richard Berman today. At such a difficult time, our thoughts and
prayers are with Aafia’s family, who has been separated from her since
March 2003.

“It has now been over seven and a half years since Dr. Siddiqui was
abducted with her three young children by Pakistani and American
agencies. She has since been separated from her children and family,
detained in a series of secret prisons and physically and
psychologically abused by her captors. Following a blatantly
prejudiced and unfair trial in which little conclusive evidence of her
guilt was presented, she was found guilty.

“We hoped that Judge Berman would have opened his eyes to the manifest
injustice that has been committed against Dr. Siddiqui and repatriated
her to her country. But it seems that Judge Berman was adamant in his
position despite the enormous level of public support for Aafia.

“Last week, Iran, in a good will gesture, released Sarah Shourd, an
American woman accused of espionage, a crime against the state
punishable by death. We are disappointed that the United States has
been unable to exercise a similar degree of mercy and leniency in the
case of another innocent woman who stands accused of crimes against
its government.

“While we are disappointed by Judge Berman’s decision, we condemn in
the strongest terms the stance of the Pakistani government towards
this beloved daughter of the nation. While we must never look to the
wolf for protection, we expect the shepherd to care for his flock. The
Pakistani government has from the outset been complicit in Aafia’s
disappearance and detention, and has displayed nothing but contempt
for its people and dignity through its cowardly stance in requesting
her repatriation.

“They are a stain upon the honorable reputation of the country. JFAC
will continue the struggle for justice for Dr. Siddiqui to try and
secure her freedom and unite her with her family and loved ones. We
remind Aafia’s supporters that this struggle may seem tiresome but as
Imam Ahmad advised his student, we will only find rest when our feet
set foot in paradise.”

For full details of the case, please visit www.justiceforaafia.org

GEO Pakistan

Dr. Aafia family vows ‘movement’ for her release

Updated at: 0040 PST, Friday, September 24, 2010

KARACHI: The family of Pakistani scientist Dr. Aafia Siddiqui on
Thursday vowed to launch a “movement” to get her released from jail in
America.

A US federal court Thursday sentenced Siddiqui to 86 years in prison
for the attempted murder of US officers in Afghanistan.

Her lawyers immediately pledged they would appeal the sentence.

In Karachi, Fowzia Siddiqui told reporters all of Pakistan would
agitate to get her sister freed.

“I was alone eight years ago when I started the campaign to release my
sister, but from now on it will be the Aafia movement as the whole
nation is with me,” she said.

Around 200 activists from Jamaat-e-Islami and various right-wing
groups gathered outside Siddiqui’s Karachi home.

They chanted slogans including “Down with America” and “Allah-o-
Akbar” (Allah is great) soon after news of the sentence filtered
through.

Aafia Siddiqui, a mother of three, was found guilty earlier this year
of grabbing a rifle at an Afghan police station in the town of Ghazni
where she was being interrogated in July 2008 and trying to gun down a
group of US servicemen.

Prosecutors said she had picked up the weapon and opened fire on US
servicemen and FBI representatives trying to take her into detention.
She missed and in a struggle was herself shot by one of the US
soldiers.

Defence lawyers argued there was no physical evidence, such as
fingerprints or gunpowder traces, to show Siddiqui even grabbed the
rifle.

Fowzia Siddiqui, a medical practitioner, criticised President Asif
Zardari’s government for its inability to get her sister released.

“This is a slap on our rulers and all the rulers of the Muslim Ummah
(nations).”

“The conviction clearly shows how enslaved our government is. The
previous government (President Pervez Musharraf’s) had sold Aafia
once, but the present government has sold her time and again,” she
said.

“You (the government) have shown that you are not the representatives
of our people, you are traitors who have got the whole nation
enslaved,” she cried.

“Aafia will certainly return sooner or later, but no one knows if our
rulers will be there or not.”

Later, around 30 angry protesters burned a US flag shouting anti-US
and anti-Zardari slogans, a photographer said.

Prior to the court hearing, Fowzia Siddiqui had led a 200-strong rally
through Karachi, witnesses said.

“The rally had tried to march towards the US consulate, but the police
stopped them well before the sensitive area,” Mohammad Asif, a local
police official told media.

In the eastern city of Lahore, around 200 activists from Islami Jamiat
Talaba, the student wing of Jamaat-e-Islami, gathered after the
sentencing. They burnt tyres and shouted anti-US slogans, witnesses
said.

Authorities in Karachi said they were on alert for possible
disturbances following the sentencing.

“We have declared a high alert and deployed maximum police force in
the city to stop possible violence and ensure that no private property
is damaged during future protests,” the city’s police chief Fayyaz
Leghari told media.

Government didn’t play its role, says Aafia’s family

KARACHI: The government did not play its role for the release of Dr
Aafia Siddiqui and did not even bother to write a single letter to the
US court for waiving terrorism charges, said the family of the doctor,
who was sentenced to 86 years imprisonment in the US on Thursday.

Dr Fauzia Siddiqui, a sister of Aafia, blamed Pakistani rulers for the
sentence. “They (Pakistani rulers) failed to honour their promises to
bring Dr Aafia back to Pakistan.

“I was alone when I started an initiative and people joined me in
this. Finally it converted into a national cause-to get Aafia
released,” said Dr Fauzia Siddiqui, a sister of Aafia.

She added that after this judgement the cause would become ‘Aafia
Movement’ and “I assure all of you that she will be brought back to
the country and by using peaceful means”.

Asmat Siddiqui, mother of Aafia said, “The rulers of Muslim world have
shown more barbarity than Ghengez Khan and other dictators in the
world’s history by maintaining silence over the issue.”

She further said, “But I cannot say anything to anyone, if my country
rulers did nothing. For six months the US court kept seeking a letter
for the release of Dr Aafia Siddiqui from the Pakistani government but
not a single word or letter was written.”

A large number of supporters from ‘Dr Aafia Siddiqui Release
Committee’ were present outside her home to show solidarity with her
family members. They chanted slogans of “Allah o Akbar” (Allah is
great) and America ke aiwanon mein aag lagado (Put to fire the
parliament of America). staff report

…and I am Sid Harth

History, Hot Off The Presses, Religious fundamentalism, Terrorism

23/09/2010

« YO Mama: Mahmoud Ahmedinejidad

and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)

2010-09-24 00:11:56 UTC

Permalink

cogitoergosum

2010-09-25 04:08:58 UTC

Permalink

<a href="http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE68N4R420100924">"The
Social Network" opens in NY to buzz, controversy</a>

Stars of the film ''The Social Network'' (L-R) Jesse Eisenberg, Andrew
Garfield and Justin Timberlake present an award at the 2010 MTV Video
Music Awards in Los Angeles, California September 12, 2010.
Credit: Reuters/Mike Blake
By Christine Kearney

NEW YORK | Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:27pm EDT

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Billed as an exhilarating, visceral tale about
the founding of Facebook, "The Social Network" gave the opening of the
New York Film Festival on Friday an aura of anticipation and a touch
of controversy.

The film has attracted widespread attention with its assertion that it
tells the true story of the birth of the website -- which now boasts
more than 500 million members and is worth tens of billions. Yet, it
is based on a book criticized for its reporting methods.

One of the most talked about films of the year, "The Social Network"
was transformed into a movie by Hollywood heavyweight director David
Fincher and writer Aaron Sorkin. It has brought an unusual pizzazz to
the 17-day film festival, which typically emphasizes the art of cinema
over Hollywood-style premieres.

"This movie is absolutely a true story, but with the catch that people
disagree about what the truth was and the movie takes no position on
what the truth is. It presents everybody's story," Sorkin, best known
for his TV hit "The West Wing," told Reuters.

The movie opens across the United States October 1, telling the rags-
to-riches tale of how Facebook co-founder Mark Zuckerberg was
transformed from an intelligent, socially awkward Harvard University
student to the hottest property in Silicon Valley for creating the
online community.

It intersperses scenes of depositions taken for lawsuits by
Zuckerberg's former best friend and Facebook co-founder Eduardo
Saverin, as well as by Olympic rowing twin brothers and former Harvard
students Tyler and Cameron Winklevoss.

Both lawsuits resulted in undisclosed large settlements.

Zuckerberg, now 26, is not expected at Friday's premiere. He refused
to cooperate with the film and told Oprah Winfrey on her chat show on
Friday, "It's a movie, it's fun" but his life was not so dramatic.

Now worth $6.9 billion according to Forbes, Zuckerberg announced a
$100 million donation to Newark, New Jersey schools on Friday,
deflecting some media attention from the film's premiere.

ZUCKERBERG, PRICKLY & SMART

Zuckerberg also refused to cooperate with the book upon which the film
is based, Ben Mezrich's "The Accidental Billionaires -- The Founding
of Facebook, A Tale of Sex, Money, Genius and Betrayal." Some critics
blasted it as frivolous for featuring too much narrative and not
enough fact.

The movie stars 26-year-old Jesse Eisenberg as Zuckerberg, Andrew
Garfield as Facebook CFO Saverin, and Justin Timberlake as Napster
creator and Internet wunderkind Sean Parker. None of the characters
are portrayed in an altogether positive light.

Fincher, know for such hit movies as "Fight Club," Se7en" and "The
Curious Case of Benjamin Button," said he knew the film would be
controversial when he took it on, but he refused to do a "cuddly"
portrayal of Zuckerberg.

"I knew it was controversial," said Fincher. "I like the fact that he
is prickly and smarter than everybody and makes no apologies for it."

Fincher declined to say if he views the movie as a true story or a
work of fiction, saying only that fact-based movies have to take the
perspective of certain characters.

Whether fact or fiction, early reviews have been good. Critic Todd
McCarthy said of the movie, "Everything about it is rich." And the
quick-witted and speedy dialogue of Sorkin's script has garnered early
Oscar chatter.

Fincher said the film addressed wider themes of friendship, loyalty,
jealousy and power.

"It's not the story of a website, it's the story of a time and a place
and the friendship, a bunch of dreamers and a bunch of people who saw
what the future was going to be like, and tried to capitalize on it
and the acrimony that broke out between them," said Fincher.

(editing by Mark Egan and Bob Tourtellotte)

<a href="http://www.reuters.com/article/
idUSTRE68E63720100916">Facebook gets movie treatments as social media
hits high</a>

Jesse Eisenberg as Mark Zuckerberg in a scene from ''The Social
Network''.
Credit: Reuters/Columbia Pictures
By Zorianna Kit

LOS ANGELES | Thu Sep 16, 2010 12:54pm EDT

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Facebook hits the silver screen this fall with
two movies coming out within weeks of each other at a time when social
media is at an all-time high.

Independent documentary "Catfish" and glitzy Hollywood feature "The
Social Network" couldn't be more different. But both could very well
be two sides of the same coin.

"We've gotten to a point where it's time to reflect on it," said
"Catfish" filmmaker Ariel Schulman.

"'The Social Network' shows us how we got here. 'Catfish' shows us
where we're at."

Facebook is the most popular social networking site in the world with
over 500 million active users. Sites like MySpace, microblogging site
Twitter, and Tumblr are also thriving, creating an intricate online
world where everything from dating websites to video game communities
have users who put their personal lives out on public display.

As "Catfish" illustrates, not everyone on these sites is who they say
they are.

"Catfish", which opens in U.S. theaters on Friday, follows Nev
Schulman, a photographer who falls in love with a girl on Facebook.
Over time, their romance blossoms and they begin to text and talk on
the phone.

When Nev, his brother Ariel and their friend Henry discover some
startling revelations, they set off on a road trip to meet the girl in
person.

"The Social Network," arrives on October 1, with a pedigree that
includes Oscar-nominated David Fincher directing from a screenplay by
the four-time Emmy Award winning Aaron Sorkin.

The film is based on Ben Mezrich's book "The Accidental Billionaires:
The Founding of Facebook, A Tale of Sex, Money, Genius, and Betrayal."
Chief executive Mark Zuckerberg, now 26, is played by Jesse Eisenberg.

"It's interesting that these two movies are coming out at the same
time," said Schulman, who directed "Catfish" with Henry Joost.

"We are however many years in to the social networking phenomenon and
I think it has hit a tipping point," he said.

Schulman, along with Joost, shot his brother Nev's 2008 real-life
romance and road trip to visit the girl of his dreams. He felt there
is now a sort of "collective subconscious" around Facebook.

Schulman likens social networks to a "collection of avatars" where
users put up "ideal versions of themselves" for others to see.

"We each play the role of our own personal publicist that way," he
noted, cautioning that because of that, "you can't go online naively."

"You've got to protect yourself," said Schulman. "Everyone has
different intentions."

Ironically for an actor portraying the man now in charge of Facebook
in "Social Network," Eisenberg himself is not a Facebook user, nor
does he ever plan to be.

"If you're in a public setting like (actors) are, you come to really
value your privacy," he said.

However, Eisenberg is quick to point out that it's not "the medium
that's the danger, it's the people using the medium" and that's why
he's chosen to stay off it.

Though Nev Schulman says he doesn't feel completely protected from his
"Catfish" situation happening again, he says he has no regrets about
his Facebook romance.

"I ended up going on a great life experience with my brother and my
dear friend Henry," said Nev Schulman.

What was real, were the life lessons that came with all that.

"I now have a better understanding of what I thought I wanted, what I
really want and what's important insofar as my relationships with
friends and family," he said. "This experience has allowed me to grow
and change for the better."

(Editing by Jill Serjeant)

<a href="http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6881KY20100909">How
Facebook got involved in human rights film</a>

By Alex Ben Block

Thu Sep 9, 2010 7:17am EDT

LOS ANGELES (Hollywood Reporter) - A harrowing trip to Africa cemented
a filmmaker's bond with Facebook and created a new way for human
rights activists to spread the word -- while promoting the social
networking site's month-old streaming video channel.

A week into Michealene Cristini Risley's trip to the Republic of
Zimbabwe in August 2007 to make a documentary exposing sexual abuse by
men who believed raping virgin girls would cure their HIV/AIDS, the
Bay Area filmmaker was arrested on trumped-up charges and thrown into
prison -- putting her in danger of being raped herself.

After three days, an American journalist who read about Risley's
predicament on her Facebook page alerted a CIA agent, who made a call
to Zimbabwe president Robert Mugabe. She was released unharmed and
fled the country with her HD footage.

On September 28, Risley will be at Facebook headquarters in Palo Alto,
Calif., to thank its employees for the company's role in her release
and to go on Facebook's LIVE streaming video channel to share her
story and answer questions. It's all part of the coordinated launch of
the documentary, "Tapestries of Hope," that came out of her trip.

Her Facebook appearance, which will be available for replay after the
initial airing, serves as the centerpiece of an innovative marketing
and promotional strategy employing new media -- especially social
media -- as well as a limited theatrical release, cable TV and in-
theater ads and hundreds of house parties, all to raise awareness of
the issue and encourage Congress to pass the International Violence
Against Women Act, now winding its way through the U.S. Senate.

It also marks a nice promotional moment for Facebook as "The Social
Network" -- the David Fincher film about the origins of the company --
gets ready to hit theaters without the cooperation of Facebook.

"We're taking all the different platforms and putting them together to
use them in the best possible way," said Risley, who has told the
story of her own childhood sexual abuse in a book and exposed the
problem of sexual abuse in America in the 2005 short film
"Flashcards."

Now married and the mother of three boys, Risley said that for her,
"Tapestries" "is a mission, not a movie."

To serve that mission, she has put together a coalition that includes
Brainstorm Media of Beverly Hills (and its Something to Talk About
documentary program), the Family Violence Prevention Fund, CARE and
advocacy group Women Thrive Worldwide.

The effort includes promotions on Facebook's corporate and networking
pages, ads on DirecTV and advertising through the Screenvision network
in about 100 theaters (and 50 others in the same areas) that will
screen the documentary on September 28 after live discussions on the
issues.

The idea of doing more than just a screening was put forward by Meyer
Shwarzstein, president of Brainstorm Media. "To get people into the
theater, you've got to make it an event," he said. "No one has done
this before, using this combination of live events, theatrical, social
media and digital platforms."

Brainstorm is backing the one-night showing, which will be distributed
electronically via Screenvision's in-theater video network (it usually
only plays ads before a movie). Shwarzstein also is working on sales
for TV, VOD and video. After those are set, the documentary will air
free on a Facebook page as well.

Facebook execs got involved after hearing how their social media
network helped in Risley's release. Besides the streaming
presentation, there are articles and promos on numerous Facebook
corporate and networking pages, messages to members and more.

"A lot of people think of Facebook as a place to connect to all the
people in their lives they care about," said Nicky Jackson Colaco,
public policy manager for Facebook. "We think of Facebook as a place
where you can also connect to the causes you care about. This is a
reflection of what is going on in the real world every day, women
fighting for human rights. It's absolutely natural they should also be
doing it online."

Suzanne DePasse, who is exec producing the documentary with her
partner Madison Jones, said there is no way they could get the level
of promotion necessary if they had to rely on traditional paid media
and advertising.

"What is beautiful about today's world is you can literally sit at
your desk and reach hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people,
by virtue of the Internet and new media," DePasse said.

While the promos will flash through cyberspace and on TV and movie
screens, the message also will be reinforced at some 500 house parties
(with eight to a dozen people at each) in the week leading to the
screening. They are being organized and hosted by Pink Papaya, a
direct sales company with 1,200 sales consultants in 35 states that
sells aromatherapy, body and bath and other products.

Pink Papaya got involved several years ago with Betty Makoni, the
woman who founded the Girl Child Network in Zimbabwe and is featured
in the documentary. "We're going to have a 'synergy week' leading up
to the movie to promote awareness," said Susan Huneke, Pink Papaya
founder and CEO.

Each attendee will get a flyer with info on the nearest theater
showing the doc, sign-up sheets to pledge they will attend, prizes for
party hosts and an offer to donate a package of merchandise to a girl
in Zimbabwe for each "Pinkyini" package of products sold in the U.S.
The company also will provide a $10 gift certificate for its products
to anyone who pays to see the movie.

Ruth Sharma, founder and president of Women Thrive Worldwide, said
this documentary might be what is needed to get legislation -- which
would involve the U.S. in supporting women's human rights globally --
passed by Congress. More than 10 members of Congress were solicited
and signed up over Facebook.

"'Tapestries of Hope' is really important because it makes the issues
real, connects with people and talks about what can be done," Sharma
said. "Legislation can seem dry and arcane, but when you see what
Betty has done, it really brings this home to people."

<a href="http://www.reuters.com/article/
idUSTRE68M2Y320100923">Facebook CEO Zuckerberg to give $100 million to
schools: report</a>

Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg smiles while unveiling the company's new
location services feature called ''Places'' during a news conference
at Facebook headquarters in Palo Alto, California August 18, 2010.
Credit: Reuters/Robert Galbraith
NEW YORK | Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:59pm EDT

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Facebook founder and chief executive Mark
Zuckerberg plans to announce he will donate $100 million to help
improve public schools in Newark, New Jersey, according to U.S. media
reports.

The announcement due on Friday would coincide with the premiere of
"The Social Network," a Hollywood movie by David Fincher chronicling
the popular social media site's rise. New York magazine described the
film as "not particularly flattering" to the 26-year-old Zuckerberg.

In conjunction with the donation, New Jersey Governor Chris Christie
has agreed to cede some control of the state's public school system to
Newark Mayor Cory Booker, including the power to name a new
superintendent, though Christie would retain the right to take back
control, the New York Times reported.

Zuckerberg, Christie and Booker are set to make their announcement on
Friday on television's "Oprah Winfrey Show," the Times said.

On Wednesday, Forbes estimated Zuckerberg's fortune to be worth $6.9
billion.

(Reporting by Phil Wahba; Editing by Jerry Norton)

...and I am Sid Harth

and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)

2010-09-25 05:05:36 UTC

Permalink

cogitoergosum

2010-09-25 20:57:48 UTC

Permalink

Portrait of A Hindu Hoodlum I
http://cogitoergosum.co.cc/2010/09/25/portrait-of-a-hindu-hoodlum-i/

Koenraad Elst
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Koenraad Elst

Koenraad Elst
Born 1959
Nationality Belgian (Flemish)
Occupation writer

Koenraad Elst (born 7 August 1959) is a Belgian writer and orientalist
(without institutional affiliation). He was an editor of the New Right
Flemish nationalist journal Teksten, Kommentaren en Studies from 1992
to 1995, focusing on criticism of Islam, various other conservative
and Flemish separatist publications such as Nucleus, ‘t Pallieterke,
Secessie and The Brussels Journal. Having authored fifteen English
language books on topics related to Indian politics and communalism,
Elst is one of the most well-known western writers (along with
François Gautier) to actively defend the Hindu way of life. He
frequently contributes to right-wing publications.

Biography

Elst was born in Leuven, Belgium into a Flemish Catholic family. Some
of his family members were Christian missionaries or priests.[1] He
graduated in Indology, Sinology and Philosophy at the Catholic
University of Leuven. He then obtained a Ph.D. from the same
university. The main portion of his Ph.D. dissertation on Hindu
revivalism and Hindu reform movements eventually became his book
Decolonizing the Hindu Mind. Other parts of his Ph.D. thesis were
published in Who is a Hindu and The Saffron Swastika. He also studied
at the Banaras Hindu University in India. Several of his books on
communalism and Indian politics are published by the Voice of India
publishing house[2].

In his twenties, he participated in the New Age movement, worked in a
New Age bookstore and organized New Age events[3], although he later
seemed to depart from New Age groups[4]. In the 1990s he became
interested in the European Neopagan movement: he co-edited the extreme
New Right[5] Tekos journal [5] from 1992, together with “pagan high
priest” Koenraad Logghe, whom he joined at the “World Congress of
Ethnic Religions” [6].

During a stay at the Banaras Hindu University between 1988 and 1992,
he interviewed many Indian leaders and writers.[6] He wrote his first
book about the Ayodhya conflict. While establishing himself as a
columnist for a number of Belgian and Indian papers, he frequently
returned to India to study various aspects of its ethno-religio-
political configuration and interview Hindu and other leaders and
thinkers.

In 1989, Elst met Sita Ram Goel after reading Goel’s book History of
Hindu Christian Encounters. Elst later sent Goel a manuscript of his
first book Ram Janmabhoomi Vs. Babri Masjid: A Case Study in Hindu
Muslim Conflict. Goel was impressed with Elst’s script: “I could not
stop after I started reading it. I took it to Ram Swarup the same
evening. He read it during the night and rang me up next morning.
Koenraad Elst’s book, he said, should be published immediately.”[7] In
August 1990, L. K. Advani released Koenraad Elst’s book about the
Ayodhya conflict at a public function presided over by Girilal Jain.[7]
[8]

His research on the ideological development of Hindu revivalism earned
him his Ph.D. at Leuven in 1998. He has also written about
multiculturalism, language policy issues, ancient Chinese history and
philosophy, comparative religion, and the Aryan invasion debate. Elst
became a well-known author on Indian politics during the 1990s in
parallel with the BJP‘s rise to prominence on the national stage. He
describes himself as an independent scholar.[9]

Elst says that his language has “softened and become more focused on
viewpoints rather than groups of people such “the” Muslims or the
Marxist historians.” [10] He writes that he has reoriented his
scholarly interests towards more fundamental philosophical studies and
questions of ancient history, rather than questions in the centre of
contemporary political struggles.[11]

Opinions

Religion and politics

At the end of March 2008, Koenraad Elst ridiculed Hugo Claus‘s
decision to commit euthanasia, claiming that it was influenced by the
purple agnostic lobby to embarrass the Roman Catholic Church [12].

Nouvelle Droite and Vlaams Belang

Elst actively contributes to nationalist New Right Flemish
publications, and has shown sympathy to the Nouvelle Droite movement
since the early 1990s. He has sometimes criticised that movement in
relation to particular topics. He said that the collaborationist
aspects of the careers of two Belgian writers were covered up in
Nouvelle Droite articles, and that he suspected that “its critique of
egalitarianism in the name of ‘differentialism’ could at heart simply
be a plea against equality in favour of inequality, Old-Right style”.
[13]

However, his endorsement with the Nouvelle Droite is still active:

Wisely or unwisely, I have not taken my scepticism to be a reason for
any active hostility to the Nouvelle Droite people, some of whom I
count as friends… Time permitting, I accept invitations from that
side, so that I spoke at their conference in Antwerp in 2000, if only
as a stand-in for an announced speaker who had cancelled at the last
minute for health reasons (Pim Fortuyn, no less, the Dutch liberal
sociology professor who criticized Islam, subsequently went into
politics, and ended up murdered by a leftist).[14]

Jan De Zutter criticized Elst for being too close with the Vlaams
Belang, as in June 1992, Koenraad Elst gave a speech directed against
Islam at the Vlaams Blok Colloquium where the party proposed its first
version of its 70 point anti-immigration policy[15] Elst said that he
spoke there because it was the only party where the “problem of Islam”
was brought up, but that he also explicitly said that he did not agree
with the party’s solution for that problem, and disapproved of their
xenophobia.[16] He stated that the VB can not be and was never his
party because of its xenophobia and ethnocentrism.[17] Since this
event, he has often been accused of being the party’s specialist on
Islam and its link with the new Pagan Movement.[citation needed]
Though he himself denies any affinity to the party program,[18] he
admits to “lukewarm” sympathy for the Flemish cause (of independence).
[19] Lucas Catherine contrasted Elst’s viewpoint with the viewpoint of
Filip Dewinter, who according to him could not have been very happy
with Elst’s opinion that not Muslims, but Islam, is the problem.[20]

Islam

Some of his books or articles contain harsh criticisms of Islam as a
whole (among others “Wahi: the Supernatural Basis of Islam“, “From
Ayodhya to Nazareth“, an article written in the form of an open letter
to the Pope and Indian church Bishop Alan de Lastic, whom Elst calls
“Your Eminences“, and in which he invites them to ask Muslims for
repentance towards Christians, or “Ayodhya And After“, a book in which
he delves into the realm of establishing a purported link between
Ayodhya and the conflict between Palestinians and Israel -section 2.2
Jerusalem and Ayodhya-, not an isolated attempt in some far-right
European movements; similarly, section 13.2 of that book is called
Islam and Nazism). More precisely, Elst argues often that “not Muslims
but Islam is the problem”. [21] [22]. His views on Islam are markedly
in line with the neoconservative think-tank “Middle East Forum“, to
which he has contributed.[23]

Belgian journalist and neoconservative activist Paul Belien has
reported that Elst thinks that “Islam is in decline, despite its
impressive demographic and military surge” – which according to Elst
is merely a “last upheaval.”

Hinduism and Indian politics

Part of a series on
Hindu politics

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David Frawley
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Politics portal
Government of India portal

v • d • e

Elst is one of the few western writers (along with François Gautier)
to actively defend the Hindutva movement[24] though he makes some
secondary criticisms about particular points. For instance he claims,
“there is no intellectual life in this Hindutva movement”.[25] He
claims that Hindutva advocates have not developed a “wellfounded
coherent vision on a range of topics which any social thinker and any
political party will have to address one day”, and that there is as
yet very little original or comprehensive work being done in the
Hindutva movement.[25] According to Elst, “Hindutva is a fairly crude
ideology, borrowing heavily from European nationalisms with their
emphasis on homogeneity. Under the conditions of British colonialism,
it was inevitable that some such form of Hindu nationalism would
arise, but I believe better alternatives have seen the light, more
attuned to the genius of Hindu civilization.”[26]. Sometimes, Elst is
critical of Hindutva for not going far enough in its criticism of
Islam[27]. He has also criticized fringe Hindutva writers for claiming
that the Taj Mahal is a Hindu temple, or for claiming that the Vedas
contain all the secrets of modern science.[25].

The same pattern also applies with respect to Elst and the RSS. Elst
views the RSS as an interesting nationalist movement, while addressing
some secondary critics, in which Elst criticizes the RSS for not going
far enough in the nationalist realm. For instance, he says that RSS’s
intellectual output is minimal: “Most of its pamphlets and manifestoes
contain a lot of puffed-up patriotism and wailing over the Partition
of the Hindu motherland, but little penetrating analysis that could be
the basis for imaginative policies and a realistic strategy.”[27] Elst
has criticized alleged Anti-Hinduism and anti-Hindu biases. Elst
writes for example that “when Hindus complain of factual problems such
as missionary subversion or Muslim terrorism, it is always convenient
to portray this spontaneous and truthful perception as an artefact of
“RSS propaganda”.[28]

Elst’s book Ram Janmabhoomi vs. Babri Masjid, a Case Study in Hindu-
Muslim conflict (1990) was the first book published by a non-Indian on
the Ayodhya debate.[25] His opinion is that “until 1989, there was a
complete consensus in all sources (Hindu, Muslim and European) which
spoke out on the matter, viz. that the Babri Masjid had been built in
forcible replacement of a Hindu temple.”[29] He claimed that
politically motivated academics have, through their grip on the media,
manufactured doubts concerning this coherent and well-attested
tradition.[25] Elst alleges that the anti-Temple group in the Ayodhya
conflict have committed serious breaches of academic deontology and
says that the “overruling of historical evidence with a high-handed
use of academic and media power” in the Ayodhya controversy was the
immediate reason to involve himself in the debate.[30]

Elst’s book Negationism in India: Concealing the Record of Islam makes
the case that the Islamic history in India is being whitewashed. He
claims that there is a larger effort to rewrite India’s history and to
whitewash Islam. He says that the goal and methods of this alleged
history rewriting is similar to the denial of the Nazi holocaust, and
that in India jihad negationists are in control of the academic
establishment and of the press.[31]

Elst’s book The Saffron Swastika proposes an examination of the
rhetoric of “Hindu fascism”. He argues that “objective outsiders are
not struck by any traces of fascism in the Hindutva movements, let
alone in the general thought current of anti-imperialist Hindu
awakening. While one should always be vigilant for traces of
totalitarianism in any ideology or movement, the obsession with
fascism in the anti-Hindu rhetoric of the secularists is not the
product of an analysis of the data, but of their own political
compulsions.”[25]

In an article, he writes that the current tendency to accuse Hindu
movements of “fascism” is nothing but a “replay of an old colonial
tactic.”[32]

On the topic of the “Indigenous Aryans” polemic within Hindu
nationalism, Elst writes

“One thing which keeps on astonishing me in the present debate is the
complete lack of doubt in both camps. Personally, I don’t think that
either theory, of Aryan invasion and of Aryan indigenousness, can
claim to have been “proven” by prevalent standards of proof; even
though one of the contenders is getting closer. Indeed, while I have
enjoyed pointing out the flaws in the AIT statements of the
politicized Indian academic establishment and its American amplifiers,
I cannot rule out the possibility that the theory which they are
defending may still have its merits.”[33]

The Hindu nationalist N.S. Rajaram criticized Elst’s book Asterisk in
Bharopiyasthan because of Elst’s alleged agenda of “rescuing Indo-
European linguistics from oblivion”.[34] Elst’s views on the Aryan
Invasion Theory were also criticized by, for example, Hans Hock[35],
Edwin Bryant[36], George Cardona[37] and by Michael Witzel[35].

Influences

Elst has published in English and Dutch. He contributed for example to
the conservative magazine Nucleus.[38][39] He is also a contributor to
the conservative internet magazine The Brussels Journal, the Flemish
satirical weekly ‘t Pallieterke and other Belgian and Dutch
publications. He has also written for mainstream Indian magazines like
Outlook India. He wrote a postscript to a book written by Daniel Pipes
(The Rushdie Affair: The Novel, the Ayatollah, and the West). He has
also published critiques of Islamism in the West[40]. According to
Sanjay Subrahmanyam, he has connections to the far-right Vlaams Blok.
[41]

He has described himself as “a secular humanist with an active
interest in religions, particularly Taoism and Hinduism, and keeping a
close watch on the variegated Pagan revival in Europe.”[42]

In his books, articles, and interviews, he describes some of his
personnal motivations and interests in Indian nationalism and
communalism[43][44][45].

Reviews

David Frawley wrote that Elst has a command of political and social
issues in India that is unmatched by any western writer and researched
in great detail.[46].

Criticism

Manini Chatterjee, in a review in the Calcutta Telegraph, called
Elst’s book Ramjanmabhoomi vs. Babri Masjid a “very bad book”.[47] She
also said that it was marred by miserably tentative terminology, like
“maybe” and “possibly”.[27] Paul Teunissen’s review of the same book
criticizes Elst for the unfavourable portrayal of Syed Shahabuddin.
[47]

Thomas Blom Hansen described Elst as a “Belgian Catholic of a radical
anti-Muslim persuasion who tries to make himself useful as a ‘fellow
traveller’ of the Hindu nationalist movement”[48] Ashis Nandy
criticized the alleged dishonesty and moral vacuity of Elst.[49].

Sarvepalli Gopal in the book Anatomy of a Confrontation calls Elst “a
Catholic practitioner of polemics” who “fights the Crusades all over
again on Indian soil”. He also says that it is difficult to take
serious an author who “speaks of the centuries when there were Muslim
rulers in India as a bloodsoaked catastrophe”.[27]

Ayub Khan says that Koenraad Elst is the most prominent advocate of
Sangh Parivar in the West. He further says: “Such is his importance in
Hindutva circles that L.K. Advani quoted him at length while deposing
before the Liberhans Commission investigation the demolition of Babri
Masjid.” In a reply to Ayub Khan, Elst says that he has been critical
of the Sangh Parivar in his writings.[50]

Christian Bouchet criticized Elst’s book The Saffron Swastika for
having placed far too much trust in Savitri Devi‘s autobiography, and
for claiming that Savitri Devi was bisexual.[51]

Elst has replied to most of his critics in books or in articles.[52]

Bibliography

•Dr. Ambedkar – A True Aryan (1993)
•Asterisk in Bharopiyasthan, Koenraad Elst, Voice of India
•Ayodhya, The Finale – Science versus Secularism the Excavations
Debate (2003) ISBN 81-85990-77-8
•Ayodhya: The Case Against the Temple (2002) ISBN 81-85990-75-1
•Ayodhya and After: Issues Before Hindu Society (1991) [7]
•BJP vis-à-vis Hindu Resurgence (1997) ISBN 81-85990-47-6
•Decolonizing the Hindu Mind – Ideological Development of Hindu
Revivalism, Rupa, Delhi (2001) ISBN 81-7167-519-0
•The Demographic Siege (1997) ISBN 81-85990-50-6
•Indigenous Indians: Agastya to Ambedkar, Voice of India (1993)
•Gandhi and Godse – A review and a critique ISBN 81-85990-71-9
(transl: Pourquoi j’ai tué Gandhi, examen critique de la défense de
Nathuram Godse par Koenraad Elst, Les Belles Lettres)
•Negationism in India: Concealing the Record of Islam (1992) ISBN
81-85990-01-8
•Psychology of Prophetism – A Secular Look at the Bible (1993) ISBN
81-85990-00-X
•Ram Janmabhoomi vs. Babri Masjid. A Case Study in Hindu-Muslim
Conflict. Voice of India, Delhi 1990. (a large part of this book is
included in Vinay Chandra Mishra and Parmanand Singh, eds.: Ram
Janmabhoomi Babri Masjid, Historical Documents, Legal Opinions &
Judgments, Bar Council of India Trust, Delhi 1991.)
•Return of the Swastika, Koenraad Elst, Voice of India
•The Saffron Swastika – The Notion of Hindu Fascism. (2001) ISBN
81-85990-69-7
•Update on the Aryan Invasion Debate Aditya Prakashan (1999) ISBN
81-86471-77-4
•Who is a Hindu? (2001) [8] ISBN 81-85990-74-3
•Linguistic Aspects of the Aryan Non-Invasion Theory, In Edwin Bryant
and Laurie L. Patton (editors) (2005). Indo-Aryan Controversy:
Evidence and Inference in Indian History. Routledge/Curzon. ISBN
0-7007-1463-4.
•The Rushdie affair’s legacy. Postscript to Daniel Pipes: The Rushdie
Affair: The Novel, the Ayatollah, and the West (1990), Transaction
Publishers, paperback (2003) ISBN 0-7658-0996-6
•Gujarat After Godhra : Real Violence, Selective Outrage/edited by
Ramesh N. Rao and Koenraad Elst. New Delhi, Har-Anand Pub., 2003, 248
p., ISBN 81-241-0917-6.
•“The Ayodhya demolition: an evaluation”, in Dasgupta, S., et al.: The
Ayodhya Reference, q.v., p. 123-154.
•“The Ayodhya debate”, in Pollet, G., ed.: Indian Epic Values.
Râmâyana and Its Impact, Peeters, Leuven 1995, q.v., p. 21-42. BJP
Hindu Resurgence. Voice of India, Delhi 1997. (adapted from a paper of
the International Ramayana Conference and the October 1995 Annual
South Asia Conference in Madison, Wisconsin)
•The Ayodhya debate: focus on the “no temple” evidence, World
Archaeological Congress, 1998
•India’s Only Communalist: In Commemoration of Sita Ram Goel (edited
by Koenraad Elst, 2005) ISBN 81-85990-78-6
•The Rushdie Rules Middle East Quarterly, June 1998
•Foreword to: The Prolonged Partition and Its Pogroms Testimonies on
Violence against Hindus in East Bengal (1946–1964) by A. J. Kamra.
•India’s Only Communalist: an Introduction to the Work of Sita Ram
Goel. In “Hinduism and Secularism: After Ayodhya”, Arvind Sharma (ed.)
Palgrave 2001 ISBN 0-33 79406-0
•“Banning Hindu Revaluation”, Observer of Business and Politics,
1-12-1993,

Notes

1.^ The Problem of Christian Missionaries
2.^ Michael Witzel, ‘Rama’s Realm: Indocentric rewriting of early
South Asian archaeology and history’ in: Archaeological Fantasies: How
Pseudoarchaeology Misrepresents the Past and Misleads the Public
Routledge (2006), ISBN 0-415-30593-4, p. 205.
3.^ New Age Fascism: Review of an Exercise in Marxist Defamation
4.^ Hinduism, Environmentalism and the Nazi Bogey
5.^ Country Reports – Stephen Roth Institute for The Study of
Contemporary Antisemitism and Racism
6.^ Elst, K. Negationism in India: Concealing the Record of Islam
7.^ a b Sitam Ram Goel, How I became a Hindu. ch.9
8.^ Ayodhya and After: Issues Before Hindu Society (1991) Footnote 64
9.^ “So, Mr. Ghosh may be the Director of the Indian Council of Social
Science Research, but as an independent scholar I am not impressed by
such titles and positions.” Ayodhya and After: Issues Before Hindu
Society (1991)
10.^ Koenraad Elst. Who is a Hindu? Chapter Four
11.^ Ayodhya, The Finale – Science versus Secularism the Excavations
Debate (2003) ISBN 81-85990-77-8
12.^ De Apotheose van Claus
13.^ http://koenraadelst.bharatvani.org/articles/fascism/Nazi5Poewe1.html
The religion of the Nazis
14.^ http://koenraadelst.bharatvani.org/articles/fascism/Nazi5Poewe2.html
The religion of the Nazis
15.^ Jan De Zutter “Heidenen voor het blok – Radicaal rechts en het
moderne Heidendom” (Heathens in favour of the Blok – the radical Right
and modern Heathenism), ISBN 90 5240 582 4 (Published by Uitgeverij
Houtekiet, Antwerpen / Baarn; 2000), p 17
16.^ http://koenraadelst.bharatvani.org/articles/dutch/isvb.html Het
VB en de islam
17.^ Wat is racisme?
18.^ [1] Het VB en de islam – Koenraad Elst, published in Nucleus,
october-november 2001
19.^ [2] Vlaanderen, Kasjmir, Tsjetsjenië, Kosovo… Het ene separatisme
is het andere niet (Flanders, Kashmir, Chechnya, Kosovo: one
separatism does not equal another) – Dr. Koenraad Elst, published in
Secessie, Antwerpen, 2001
20.^ Lucas Catherine – Vuile Arabieren, p.81, quoted at [3] Het VB en
de islam – Koenraad Elst
21.^ Book Review – Saffron Wave
22.^ Let’s Combat Communalism “Koenraad Elst–Sangh Parivar’s
Apologist”, a review of Decolonizing the Hindu Mind: Ideological
development of Hindu Revivalism (Rupa, Delhi 2001), by Ayub Khan in
Communalism Watch, 13 March 2003
23.^ [4]
24.^ See M. R. Pirbhai Demons in Hindutva, writing a theology for
Hindu nationalism, Modern Intellectual History (2008), 5 : 27-53
Cambridge University Press doi:10.1017/S1479244307001527, and Dibyesh
Anand Anxious Sexualities: Masculinity, Nationalism and Violence doi:
10.1111/j.1467-856x.2007.00282.x BJPIR: 2007 Vol 9, 257–269 p.259.
25.^ a b c d e f Ayodhya and After: Issues Before Hindu Society (1991)
Chapter Fifteen
26.^ Let’s Combat Communalism
27.^ a b c d Negationism in India: Concealing the Record of Islam
(1992) ISBN 81-85990-01-8
28.^ Hinduism, Environmentalism and the Nazi Bogey — A preliminary
reply to Ms. Meera Nanda
29.^ Koenraad Elst. Who is a Hindu? Chapter Nine
30.^ Koenraad Elst. Who is a Hindu? Chapter Eleven
31.^ Negationism in India: Concealing the Record of Islam (1992) ISBN
81-85990-01-8
32.^ Was Veer Savarkar a Nazi?
33.^ Update on the Aryan Invasion Debate Aditya Prakashan (1999) ISBN
81-86471-77-4
34.^ N.S. Rajaram, “This asterisk has no fine prints”, Review in The
Pioneer, 18 March 2007
35.^ a b Edwin Bryant and Laurie L. Patton (editors) (2005). Indo-
Aryan Controversy: Evidence and Inference in Indian History.
36.^ The Quest for the Origins of Vedic Culture By Edwin Bryant.
Oxford University Press
37.^ The Indo-Aryan Languages By Dhanesh Jain, George Cardona.
Routledge
38.^ Nucleus Nucleus on Dutch Wikipedia
39.^ bharatvani.org op.cit.
40.^ The Rushdie Rules, by Koenraad Elst, Middle East Quarterly, June
1998
41.^ Sanjay Subrahmanyam in the Times of India, August 22, 2006
42.^ bharatvani.org op. cit.
43.^ Elst interview
44.^ Voice of Dharma review
45.^ Let’s combat communalism
46.^ David Frawley:How I became a Hindu.
http://www.hindubooks.org/david_frawley/how_i_became_a_hindu/journalistic_work/page9.htm
47.^ a b Koenraad Elst Who is a Hindu? (2001)
48.^ Thomas Hansen. The Saffron Wave. (p.262)
http://koenraadelst.bharatvani.org/reviews/saffronwave.html
49.^ A. Nandy (“Creating a Nationality”, p.5)
http://koenraadelst.bharatvani.org/interviews/sulekha.html
50.^ Let’s Combat Communalism “Koenraad Elst–Sangh Parivar’s
Apologist”, a review of Decolonizing the Hindu Mind: Ideological
development of Hindu Revivalism (Rupa, Delhi 2001), by Ayub Khan in
Communalism Watch, 13 March 2003.
51.^ The eternal return of Nazi nonsense: Savitri Devi’s last writings
Savitri Devi Mukherji: Le National-Socialisme et la Tradition
Indienne, with contributions by Vittorio de Cecco, Claudio Mutti and
Christian Bouchet, published in the series Cahiers de la Radicalité by
Avatar-éditions, Paris/Dublin 2004.
52.^ For example, Ayodhya-The Case Against the Temple, Asterisk in
Bharopiyasthan, http://koenraadelst.bharatvani.org/articles/politics/PolSec03AyubKhan1.html

See also

•Voice of India
•Michel Danino
•David Frawley
•Ibn Warraq
•Srđa Trifković
•Oriana Fallaci
•Andrew Bostom
•Swapan Dasgupta
•G Anil Kumar
•N. S. Rajaram
•Arun Shourie
•Girilal Jain

External links

Wikiquote has a collection of quotations related to: Koenraad Elst

•Personal Blog of Dr. Elst
•Articles and Books by Dr. Elst
•Quotes by Koenraad Elst
•Koenraad Elst at the Brussels Journal
•An Interview With Koenraad Elst
•Interview with India Currents Magazine, Feb. ’96
•Pondering Pagans Hinduism Today
•Tamil translation of his articles on Wahi / வஹி: இஸ்லாத்தின் அமானுட
அடிப்படை – ஒரு பார்வை
•Review of Koenraad Elst’s Ayodhya and after
•Criticism and review of Elst’s positions on ‘revivalism’. “Koenraad
Elst–Sangh Parivar’s Apologist” by A. Khan (reply by Elst)

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…and I am Sid Harth

Conflict, Hindu Society, History, Hot Off The Presses, Indian society,
News, Views and Reviews, Religious fundamentalism, Terrorism

25/09/2010

« SidiLeaks Top CIA Secrets

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2010-09-25 22:10:24 UTC

Permalink

Portrait of A Hindu Hoodlum II
http://cogitoergosum.co.cc/2010/09/25/portrait-of-a-hindu-hoodlum-ii/

[FairfieldLife] Re: Sid Harth vs David Frawley

off_world_beings
Fri, 01 Jul 2005 12:02:48 -0700

You are a skilled Pejorativition.
Find more at :

http://www.insult-o-matic.com/insults/?

yourname=Johnny&numinsults=5&mode=classic

— In ***@yahoogroups.com, Jason Daniel
wrote:

Hari Om,
This is an Article by Sid Harth.

Of Sin, Schwing and Spin Doctors.

Friday, November 5, 1999 3:00 AM

Yours truly and fabulous brother of mine, darling of the don’s

ding bats, your Zandewalan RSS ass lickers, Brahmin brat boy
brigade, California fornicating computer coolies, David Frawley
don’t get along. That is the understatement of the century, make it
of the millenium.

This deluded dunce of my brother rather refer himself as Dr. David

Frawley, not by his new name as Vamdeva Shastri. This idiot is some
kind of doctor, his official page and official biography mentions
very little about what kind of doctor he is. Doctor of Umbrellas? Is
this a case of one fake and fucked up, phony baloney doctor like
our ‘Hawaiidiot,’ Dr. Jay Maharaj, which name and attached Dr.
appellation both are fake?

This idiot runs an empire more like a drug peddling tent, from his

New Mexico headquarters and said to be the new Hindu messiah with a
zeal of legendary Zorro. I wish this nincompoop a long and
prosperous life and a strength of a horse, a legendary horse that
used to maraud the countryside in ancient India as part of ritual
called, “ashvamedha.”

A strong and little wanton white horse used to be part of that war

mongering Aryan ritual under the guise of Hindu religion. Chhota
kings wanting some kicks and territory of the neighboring peaceful
kings, and satraps used to gather his warriors and perform this
ritual. The burning of lot of clarified butter and some other
valuable ingredients to propitiate the god of gods, ‘Indra, Agni,
Marut and bunch of other ferocious gods’ was the fun and harmless
part.

The nasty part began with releasing this wanton horse and

following him to the places the horse decided to visit and challenge
the owner, king of that territory territory to accept the
sovereignty and suzerainty of the Ashvamedha initiator. This method
of taking from others what essentially was not theirs is the
celebrated Aryan Hindu bad habit. All legal and all moral, perhaps
all spiritual at that time.

This “white” ceremonial beast, Dr. David Frawley, I call him

fondly, Fru-Fru “Frawd” Frawley. The Fru-Fru part refers to his
stomach contents, rather loosy goosey, gobbledigooky, sour contents
in a force and style as witnessed with a white man consuming large
quantity of south Indian curry, sambaram, perhaps rightfully claimed
as food for the devil, sets your asshole on fire. The ‘Frawd’ part
is not a misspelling of fraud, maybe it is done in artistic style,
little rhyming goes a long way in my style of writing.

This New Mexico rattle snake is upto no good. Like all other

flower children of his time, David followed his tortured self to
India to become a groupie of one or another self styled gurus.
Before he did such a holy pilgrimage, David obtained a
correspondence course in Vedic astrology, perhaps Vedic medicine
called Ayrveda. Such profound studies led him to believe that he is
reincarnation of great Indian healers dealing herbs and barks of
jungles.

So far so good. The eternal search for self is a foundation stone

of Indian traditions, not necessarily what is termed as Hindu
traditions. Like our own Hawaiidiot Dr. Jai Maharaj, David does
dispense all kinds of free and for real money potions, concoctions
in the form of bottled preparations so that heathens of the world
could heal, yeah, heel to this messiah’s zany concoction of
spirituality, morality, high living, health and wealth patented
formulas, that too.

This kind of sudden realization that one’s own religion is no

good, one’s family traditions are no good, one’s conscience is no
good and the right answers are found in regurgitated mystic and
mythical religious practices of the orient is the driving force
behind such fucking gurus as Bhagwan Rajnish who fucked around and
fooled around elite Americans creating theology and modern mythology
of instant nirvana.

Bhagwan was kicked out of his Ashram in Oregon and languished in

horrible, despicable rejection from his own country to die and rise
to heaven as “Osho.” David is very much alive and shows no signs of
quitting his snake oil vending operations, Ayurveda, Vedic
astrologic practice and predictions, Yoga, spirituality, perhaps
vegetarianism and anti Americanism mixed with new charter to malign
all except those snakes he calls as his gurus, masters and spiritual
leaders. The last one includes Aurobindo Ashram’s French born woman
leader, wife of former terrorist turned spiritualist Aurobindo of
Pondicherry, Tamil Nadu.

What would be the condition of the world if such white horses were

not to threaten the territorial properties and rights of peaceful
neighboring kingdoms? David’s shenanigans are no different than
Hawaiidiot, Dr. Jai Maharaj, perhaps in degree and intensity, a
minor point. Hindu hoodlums love such transmigrated scum bags, shit
buckets and sinful spin doctors. David became an instant celebrity
on account of his fraudulent work on Aryan Invasion of India. This
New Mexico rattle snake tells tall tales about times and considers
his much publicized work as a rosetta stone of a discovery. David’s
interpretations, if based on his style of learning things from
correspondence course of doubtful origin and value is to be taken as
the extent, becomes more of a joke than serious scientific
discovery.

The self styled “Mr. Everything to everybody,” sort of ‘Man for

all seasons,’ reasons, treason to his own country and faith, loves
the ovation he gets when he supposedly delivers his new dogma of
Hindu superiority. That thingy is lapped up by the Hindu hound dogs
like RSS boys. Lord Krishna said in his famous song celestial, Gita
that he shall appear again. Not in the desert of New Mexico! Give me
a break. David is a common thief, a charlatan, a gypsy doing his
astrology, herbal medicine thingy in a bazaar showing generously her
puffed up breasts and wide smile.

This two timing cheap hustler of Hindu religion is not the first

nor shall he be the last white to milk the Hindu deluded mindset’s
cash cow and strike an instant bond of brotherliness among the ding
bat community. Madam Blavatsky did that sort of thingy before. That
French born woman of Pondicherry tried her hand. Hare Krishnawallahs
vagabonds are doing it. God bless them all. If they feel that great
religions of India are the recipe for the future, so be it.

What is the point when the same scum bags denigrate their own

religions and religious practices including but not limited to
religious traditions, myths and masters? David’s uncalled for
defense of Hindu religion as against his own Roman Catholic faith is
a copout of worst kind. We know what are the reasons and rationale
behind Pope John Paul, II getting in his bullet proof Pope Mobile
and taking his message to the huddled masses of the world. There is
no piety in that act. It is sheer conquering attitude of war
mongering Aryan ruffians who performed their religious rituals
of ‘Ashvamedha Yagya.’ The celebrated Ratha has been mechanized and
retrofitted with bullet proof shield, that’s all.

For ding bat Hindus to lap such lap dogs as David Frawley’s every
word, every interpretation, every concoction is a proof enough that
that country rather have charlatans and spiritual gypsies shape
their beliefs than the reality. I should be mad but today I am sad.

Thanks to the Rediff dated November 4, 1999.

http://rediff.com/news/1999/nov/04pope1.htm

More on this Fru-Fru “Frawd” Frawley shit bucket.

http://www.vedanet.com/

Sid Harth…”God save Hindu simians from self styled

correspondence course trained gurus like Dr. David Frawley.”

For more details,

http://www.geocities.com/tikakar/pope.html

Jason

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sid Harth vs David Frawley – 33
Rick Archer
Sat, 02 Jul 2005 13:01:35 -0700

I think FFL has reached a new FFL weirdness apex.

Hari Om,
Of Harappa and Hindu Haramjadeh
by Sid Harth
Brahmin bubbas don’t give up. My good brother, Michael

Witzel beat these feces fascists to pulp over a fake and fictitious
claims made by Dr. David ‘Frawd’ Frawley, N S Rajaram shit shoveling
dogs. N Ram of Frontline replicated Michael Witzel’s scientific
articles, the reasoning and rationale behind politicizing an area
hethereto kept clean by world scientists, archaelogists, linguists,
comparative historians and dozens of Indian scholars and brahmin
pundits.

It made no impact on shit shoveling dos of saffron kind,

apparently. The Times of India article ripping apart the recent
Hindutva handout in the form of a catalogue for a new wing for
Harappa exhibit would be also ignored by these brainwashed brahmin
bubbas.

What is ther to ignore? The proof of the pudding is in its

taste. Just look at the convoluted logic extended by these fucked up
fascists to prove their putrid theory that Aryans and Harappa
civilization people were one and same. They bring two nincompoops. N
S Rajaram is a lunatic. This goddamned idiot has made enough noise.
Now it is the time to whupp his ass.

Sid Harth…”Paganism means Hindu religion, make it putrid,

filthy, mythology based pure shit.”

http://66.249.93.104/search?

q=cache:WbEJqmyYXjoJ:www.comebackkid.com/harth74.html+witzel+frawley+
OR+rajaram+%22harth74%22&hl=en

Of Defending, Offending and Rear Ending Hindu Hoodlums. by

Sid Harth

I told this story once. Maybe, this is good time to repeat

it. One Columbia University don, professor, if you wished asked me
to get the hell out from a list, a scholarly list, discussing
Indology in no uncertain terms because he was offended by my
fuckwords, cusswords and unparliamentary, unprintable vile
expressions of genuine anger.

I retaliated in kind. Plugged that son of a bitch’s royal

ass. I did not have to be cruel to him but wanted to show where the
truth lies as far as my India related commentary is concerned.

I unloaded pertinent information on Hinduja brothers,

scumbags, according to a cover story written by none other than my
good brother, Pranay Gupte in Forbes. Hindujas have a reputation of
laying millions at doorsteps of noble institutes, projects,
organizations such as Columbia.

Hindujas have paid fancy sums to Columbia to institute a

chair. Good brother, Michael Witzel write me a personal note
thanking for the information. Michael Witzel ain’t no two timing,
shit shoveling dog that Dr. David Frawley and N S Rajaram are. He
appreciates what I do.

Fucked up fascists may brainwash thirteen year old kids to

convince them that the land of milk and honey, India that is, needs
to be defended against people like yours truly. So be it. The truth
must be told. India is a big pile of shit, take it or leave it.

Sid Harth…”There is no crime in telling the truth in

however the vile language one can imagine as otherwise the Brahmin
Devil shall destroy whatever good there may be in the holy Hindu
hoodlumland called India.”
Crazy Guy
You are a horiffic cross-dressing corpse who beats the sick minded
disfunctional buffoon and the unsavory penguin groper.
Chances are your best friend is a cursed nipply pantaloon who
controls the mind of the loincloth chomping bungweed and the evil
booger.
Get away from me you whoring hideous fleck of llama spit who walks
all over the teletubbie rubbing can of rotten spam and the cunt
licking blister.
Your father was a pathetic oozing ass who controls the body of the
whoring penile colonist and the loud hermaphrodite.
Your significant other is a cum guzzling butt kissing dildo who
sucks on the loincloth chomping freak and the demented molester.

Rick Archer
SearchSummit
1108 South B Street
Fairfield, IA 52556
Phone: 641-472-9336
Fax: 815-572-5842

http://searchsummit.com

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Or go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

To visit your group on the web, go to:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sid Harth vs David Frawley – 33 Rick Archer
[FairfieldLife] Re: Sid Harth vs David Frawley – 33 off_world_beings
[FairfieldLife] Re: Sid Harth vs David Frawley – 33 Rory Goff
[FairfieldLife] Re: Sid Harth vs David Frawley – 33 Alex Stanley
[FairfieldLife] Re: Sid Harth vs David Frawley – 33 Rory Goff Re:
[FairfieldLife] Re: Sid Harth vs David Frawley – 33 Vaj
[FairfieldLife] Re: Sid Harth vs David Frawley – 33 sparaig
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sid Harth vs David Frawley – 33 Peter Sutphen
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Sid Harth vs David Frawley – 33 Rick Archer
[FairfieldLife] Re: Sid Harth vs David Frawley – 33 off_world_beings
[FairfieldLife] The truth must be told. India is a big pile of shit –
by Sid Harth off_world_beings

David Frawley

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This biographical article needs additional citations for
verification. Please help by adding reliable sources. Contentious
material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must
be removed immediately, especially if potentially libelous or harmful.
(November 2008)

David Frawley (or Vāmadeva Śāstrī वामदेव शास्त्री) is an American
Hindu author, publishing on topics such as Hinduism, Yoga and
Ayurveda. He is the founder and director of the American Institute for
Vedic Studies in Santa Fe, New Mexico, which offers courses on Yoga
philosophy, Ayurveda, and Hindu astrology. He is also “Professor of
Vedic Astrology and Ayurveda” at the Hindu University of America at
Orlando, Florida. He is a Vaidya (Ayurvedic doctor), and a Jyotishi
(astrologer).[1]

Biography

In 2000, his book How I Became a Hindu, Frawley details his move from
a Catholic upbringing to embracing Hinduism. He learned Sanskrit from
a Sanskrit grammar book and a copy of the Vedas around 1970.[page
needed]

Frawley founded and is the director of the American Institute for
Vedic Studies in Santa Fe, New Mexico. Through his institute, he
offers courses on Yoga philosophy, Hindu astrology (jyotisha), and
Ayurveda.

Awards, titles and credentials

“Dr. Frawley has a background in Chinese medicine, in which he
received a doctor’s degree in 1987. He taught Chinese herbal medicine
at the International Institute of Chinese Medicine from 1984-1990.”[2]
In 1991, under the auspices of the Hindu teacher Avadhuta Shastri, he
was named Vamadeva Shastri (वामदेव शास्‍त्री), after the great Vedic
rishi Vamadeva.[1] “Vamadeva was one of the first Americans to receive
Jyotish Kovid title from the Indian Council of Astrological Sciences
(ICAS, 1993), the largest Vedic astrology association in the
world.”[2]

Views and opinions

This article contains too many quotations for an encyclopedic entry.
Please help improve the article by removing excessive quotations or
transferring them to Wikiquote. Help is available. (April 2010)

“Vedic knowledge”

“Vamadeva [Dr. David Frawley's chosen name] sees his role as helping
to revive Vedic knowledge in an interdisciplinary approach for the
planetary age. He sees himself as a teacher and translator to help
empower people to use Vedic systems to enhance their lives and aid in
their own Self-realization. He sees Vedic wisdom as a tool for
liberation of the spirit, not as a dogma to bind people or to take
power over them. Vedic knowledge is a means of communing with the
conscious universe and learning to embody it in our own life and
perception.”[2]

Religion

Frawley says, “[T]rue religion, whether it predominates in the Eastern
or Western parts of the world, is not a matter of geography… Why
should it be a problem for us if anyone finds spiritual benefit from a
teaching that arises outside of their given cultural context?”… Before
we think that we are Westerners or Easterners, we should know that we
are human beings. “Identity is something that we are going to lose
anyway.”[3]

Racial theories and Hindu nationalism

In books such as The Myth of the Aryan Invasion of India and In Search
of the Cradle of Civilization, Frawley criticizes the 19th century
racial interpretations of Indian prehistory, such as the theory of a
conflict between invading caucasoid Aryans and Dravidians.[4]

“There is no racial evidence”, according to Frawley, “of any such Indo-
Aryan invasion of India but only of a continuity of the same group of
people who traditionally considered themselves to be Aryans.”[5]

“[T]here is no such thing scientifically speaking as Aryan and
Dravidian races. The so-called Aryans and Dravidian races of India are
members of the same Mediterranean branch of the Caucasian race,… The
Caucasian race is not simply white but also contains dark skinned
types. Skin color and race is another nineteenth century idea that has
been recently discarded.”[6]

“The Puranas make the Dravidians descendants of the Vedic family of
Turvasha, one of the older Vedic peoples…[T]he Puranas regard the
Chinese, Persians and other non-Indic peoples to be descendants of
Vedic kings. The Vedas see all human beings as descendants of Manu,
their legendary first man.”[6]

Reception

Bryant (2001) commented that Frawley’s work is more successful in the
popular arena, to which it is directed and where its impact “is by no
means insignificant”, rather than in academic study[7] and that
“(Frawley) is committed to channeling a symbolic spiritual paradigm
through a critical empirico rational one”.[8]

In a series of exchanges published in The Hindu, Michael Witzel
rejects Frawley’s linking of Vedic literature with the Harappan
civilisation and a claimed lost city in the Gulf of Cambay, as
misreading Vedic texts, ignoring or misunderstanding other evidence
and motivated by antiquity frenzy. Witzel argues that Frawley’s
proposed “ecological approach” and “innovative theories” of the
history of ancient India amount to propagating currently popular
indigenist ideas.[9]

Bruce Lincoln attributes autochthonous ideas such as Frawley’s to
“parochial nationalism”, terming them “exercises in scholarship ( =
myth + footnotes)”, where archaeological data spanning several
millennia is selectively invoked, with no textual sources to control
the inquiry, in support of the theorists’ desired narrative.[10]

Partial bibliography

•Gods, Sages, and Kings, Lotus Press, Twin Lakes, Wisconsin ISBN
0-910261-37-7
•From the River of Heaven, Lotus Press, Twin Lakes, Wisconsin ISBN
0-910261-38-5
•Hinduism: The Eternal Tradition (Sanatana Dharma), Voice of India,
New Delhi ISBN 81-85990-29-8
•The Myth of the Aryan Invasion Theory online book, update, article
•In Search of the Cradle of Civilization, with Georg Feuerstein,
Subhash Kak. Motilal Banarsidass Publ., 1999. ISBN 8120816269.
•How I Became a Hindu
•The Rig Veda and the History of India ISBN 81-7742-039-9
•Hinduism and the Clash of Civilizations.
•Yoga and Ayurveda, Lotus Press, Twin Lakes, Wisconsin ISBN
0-914955-81-0
•Tantric Yoga, Lotus Press, Twin Lakes, Wisconsin ISBN 0-910261-39-3
•Wisdom of the Ancient Seers, Lotus Press, Twin Lakes, Wisconsin ISBN
0-910261-36-9
•Oracle of Rama, Lotus Press, Twin Lakes, Wisconsin ISBN 0-910261-35-0
•Yoga and the Sacred Fire, Lotus Press, Twin Lakes, Wisconsin ISBN
0-940985-75-6
•Ayurvedic Healing, Lotus Press, Twin Lakes, Wisconsin ISBN
0-914955-97-7
•Ayurveda and Marma Therapy, (with Ranade and Lele), Lotus Press, Twin
Lakes, Wisconsin ISBN 0-940985-59-4
•Yoga for Your Type: Ayurvedic Guide to Your Asana Practice, (with
Summerfield-Kozak), Lotus Press, Twin Lakes, Wisconsin ISBN
0-910261-30-X
•Ayurveda: Nature’s Medicine, (with Ranade), Lotus Press, Twin Lakes,
Wisconsin ISBN 0-914955-95-0
•Yoga of Herbs: Ayurvedic Guide to Herbal Medicine, (with Lad), Lotus
Press, Twin Lakes, Wisconsin ISBN 0-941524-24-8
•Ayurveda and the Mind, Lotus Press, Twin Lakes, Wisconsin ISBN
0-914955-36-5
•Astrology of the Seers, Lotus Press, Twin Lakes, Wisconsin ISBN
0-914955-89-6
•Ayurvedic Astrology, Lotus Press, Twin Lakes, Wisconsin ISBN
0-940985-88-8

Notes

1.^ a b Dr. David Frawley Information infobuddhism.com.
2.^ a b c American Institute of Vedic Studies. Accessed July 11, 2008
3.^ About.com Hinduism. Accessed July 13, 2008
4.^ Arvidsson 2006:298 Arvidsson, Stefan (2006), Aryan Idols: Indo-
European Mythology as Ideology and Science, translated by Sonia
Wichmann, Chicago and London: The University of Chicago Press.
5.^ Frawley, David. http://www.stephen-knapp.com/solid_evidence_debunking_aryan_invasion.htm
6.^ a b David, Frawley. The Myth of Aryan Invasion of India. “The
Aryan/Dravidian Divide. Accessed July 11, 2008. [1]
7.^ Edwin Bryant (2001). The Quest for the Origins of Vedic Culture:
The Indo-Aryan Migration Debate. Oxford University Press. pp. 291.
ISBN 0195137779.
8.^ Edwin Bryant (2001). The Quest for the Origins of Vedic Culture:
The Indo-Aryan Migration Debate. Oxford University Press. pp. 347.
ISBN 0195137779.
9.^ David Frawley (June 18, 2002). Vedic literature and the Gulf of
Cambay discovery. The Hindu. http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/op/2002/06/18/stories/2002061800030200.htm
[dead link]; M. Witzel (June 25, 2002). A maritime Rigveda? — How not
to read ancient texts. The Hindu.
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/op/2002/06/25/stories/2002062500030200.htm
[dead link]; David Frawley (July 16, 2002). Witzel’s vanishing ocean.
The Hindu. http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/op/2002/07/16/stories/2002071600070200.htm
[dead link]; Michael Witzel (August 6, 2002). Philology vanished:
Frawley’s Rigveda — I. The Hindu.
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/op/2002/08/06/stories/2002080600070200.htm
[dead link]; Michael Witzel (August 13, 2002). Philology vanished:
Frawley’s Rigveda — II. The Hindu.
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/op/2002/08/13/stories/2002081300020200.htm
[dead link];David Frawley (August 20, 2002). Witzel’s philology. The
Hindu. http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/op/2002/08/20/stories/2002082000120200.htm
[dead link].
10.^ Bruce Lincoln (1999). Theorizing Myth: Narrative, Ideology, and
Scholarship. University of Chicago Press. pp. 215. ISBN 0226482014.

See also

•Voice of India
•Koenraad Elst
•Francois Gautier
•Michel Danino
•Girilal Jain
•Archaeoastronomy and Vedic chronology

References

•Arvidsson, Stefan (2006). Aryan Idols: Indo-European Mythology as
Ideology and Science. translated by Sonia Wichmann. Chicago: The
University of Chicago Press. ISBN 978-0-226-02860-6.
•Nussbaum, Martha (2007). The Clash Within: Democracy, Religious
Violence, and India’s Future. Cambridge, Massachusetts: The Belknap
Press of Harvard University Press. ISBN 0-674-02482-6.

External links

•David Frawley’s homepage
•Online books by David Frawley
•US Publisher of books by David Frawley
•Online version of Hinduism and the Clash of Civilizations

v • d • e

Modern Dharma/Dhamma writers (1875 to date)

Buddhist Rahul Sankrityayan · B. R. Ambedkar · Stephen Batchelor ·
Stephan Bodian · Lokesh Chandra · Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche · Pema
Chödrön · Edward Conze · Lama Surya Das · Alexandra David-Néel ·
Henepola Gunaratana · Kelsang Gyatso · Dalai Lama · Thrangu Rinpoche ·
Walpola Rahula · C.A.F. Rhys Davids · T.W. Rhys Davids · Seongcheol ·
Sogyal Rinpoche · Chogyal Namkhai Norbu · Robert Thurman · Richard
Gombrich · Chah Subhatto · Nanavira Thera · Thanissaro Bhikkhu ·
Bhikkhu Bodhi · Nyanaponika Thera · Jack Kornfield · Gil Fronsdal ·
Seung Sahn · Kitaro Nishida · Khyentse Norbu · D.T. Suzuki · Paul Reps
· Scott Shaw · Thich Nhat Hanh · Yin Shun · Hsuan Hua · Hsing Yun ·
Philip Kapleau · Shunryu Suzuki · Taizan Maezumi · Han Yong-un · Ole
Nydahl · Matthieu Ricard

Hindu A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada · Aurobindo · Satsvarupa
dasa Goswami · A. Coomaraswamy · Bankim · Alain Daniélou · Dayananda ·
Sita Ram Goel · Ramana Maharshi · The Mother · Swami Ramdas ·
Sivananda · Ram Swarup · Tilak · Vivekananda · Yogananda

Jain Satish Kumar · Claudia Pastorino · Yashodev Suri · Jayantsain
Suri

Sikh Bhai Vir Singh · Harjot Oberoi · G.S. Talib · Khushwant Singh

Syncretic and others Annie Besant · Ram Dass · Eknath Easwaran ·
Sathya Sai Baba · Georg Feuerstein · H.S. Olcott · Meher Baba · Osho ·
Alan Watts · Ken Wilber · David Frawley

v • d • e

Hindu reform movements

Ayyavazhi · Arya Samaj · Divine Life Society · Hindutva · ISKCON ·
Ramakrishna Mission · Sri Aurobindo Ashram · Swadhyay Parivar ·

Topics Bhakti · Caste · Persecution of Hindus · Shuddhi · Women in
Hinduism

Reformers Sri Aurobindo · Sita Ram Goel · M.S. Golwalkar · Mahatma
Gandhi · Harsh Narain · The Mother · Prabhupada · Raja Ram Mohun Roy ·
Pandurang Shastri Athavale · Ramakrishna · Dayananda Saraswati ·
Satsvarupa dasa Goswami · V.D. Savarkar · Swami Sivananda · Arun
Shourie · Ram Swarup · B.G. Tilak · Swami Vivekananda · Yogananda ·
Swami Vipulananda · Arumuga Navalar · more

Persondata

NAME Frawley, David
ALTERNATIVE NAMES
SHORT DESCRIPTION
DATE OF BIRTH
DATE OF DEATH

Retrieved from “http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Frawley“
Categories: 1950 births | Living people | American Hindus | Converts
to Hinduism | 20th-century astrologers | 21st-century astrologers |
Hindu astrologers | Ayurvedacharyas | People in alternative medicine |
American astrologers | Hindu revivalist writers | American spiritual
writers | American astrological writers

•This page was last modified on 20 September 2010 at 12:57.

•Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike
License;

Wikipedia® is a registered trademark of the Wikimedia Foundation,
Inc., a non-profit organization.

…and I am Sid Harth

Conflict, Hindu Society, History, Hot Off The Presses, Indian society,
News, Views and Reviews, Religious fundamentalism, Terrorism

25/09/2010

« Portrait of A Hindu Hoodlum I

and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)

2010-09-27 01:55:27 UTC

Permalink

cogitoergosum

2010-09-28 07:04:55 UTC

Permalink

Did Somebody say Moral Victory?
http://cogitoergosum.co.cc/2010/09/28/did-somebody-say-moral-victory/

Did Somebody say Moral Victory?

September 27, 2010, 5:10 pm

Soldier Describes Murder of Afghan for Sport in Leaked Tape

By ROBERT MACKEY

A leaked interrogation tape broadcast by ABC News on Monday.Updated |
6:41 p.m. On Monday, at Joint Base Lewis-McChord in western
Washington, Specialist Jeremy N. Morlock, one of five American
soldiers accused by Army investigators of taking part in the murders
of three Afghan civilians this year, appeared at a hearing to
determine the formal charges against him.

Specialist Morlock was accused by the Army of taking part in all three
killings during his deployment in Afghanistan’s Kandahar province, as
The Lede noted in a prior post on the killings. Other soldiers in the
unit told investigators that the accused ringleader, Staff Sgt. Calvin
Gibbs, collected fingers and other body parts from Afghan corpses
after the killings and said that he had gotten away with similar
killings in Iraq.

As Reuters reported:

Morlock, from Wasilla, Alaska, is the first to be brought before a
military court for a so-called Article 32 hearing, in which
prosecutors and defense lawyers present evidence to an investigating
officer who will determine whether the defendant should be formally
tried in a court-martial.

If found guilty of all the charges against him, Morlock, could face
the death penalty.

The news agency added, “Four of the soldiers have been charged with
keeping body parts, including finger bones, a skull, leg bones and a
human tooth.”

Before Monday’s hearing, ABC News broadcast what the network said was
a portion of a leaked interrogation tape of Specialist Morlock
describing one killing to Army investigators.

United States Army

Jeremy MorlockMatthew Cole and Brian Ross of ABC reported that
Specialist Morlock also said that Sergeant Gibbs carried a Russian
grenade to place next to the body of one dead Afghan to make it seem
as if he was about to attack the American soldiers.

Hal Bernton of The Seattle Times, who has been following the
investigation closely, reported on Monday that Specialist Morlock’s
lawyer argues that his client’s confession could not be trusted
because he was on several prescription drugs at the time. Before
Monday’s hearing began, Mr. Bernton wrote:

In May, when Morlock was questioned about alleged war crimes, his
prescription drugs included two antidepressants, one potent muscle
relaxer, two sleep medications and a pain reliever infused with
codeine, according to a list provided by his defense attorney.

In two interviews with investigators, the 22-year-old Alaskan made a
series of stunning allegations that implicated him and four other
soldiers in what Army prosecutors assert were premeditated plans to
murder three Afghan civilians.

These statements now form a central part of the Army’s case against
the five soldiers.

In a hearing scheduled for Monday at Joint Base Lewis-McChord,
Morlock’s civilian defense attorney, Michael Waddington, is expected
to argue that his client’s statements should be discounted because
they were given while Morlock was under the influence of some of these
drugs.

“We pulled at least 10 prescriptions out of his bag. They were giving
these out like candy,” Waddington said. “His memory of events is very
foggy.” Other lawyers who have reviewed the statements, one of which
was on videotape, said Morlock sometimes sounded confused and the
information he provided was sometimes contradictory.

Last week, my colleague William Yardley reported that a senior defense
counsel at Lewis-McChord said in an e-mail that the military had
photographs taken by the men, showing some of them posing with the
corpses of the three Afghans they had killed, “as a kind of morbid
sport.”

On Monday, CNN also broadcast a report featuring portions of
Specialist Morlock’s interrogation, and part of another soldier’s
description of what he said was frequent drug use by the soldiers in
the unit charged with the killings.

As The Lede explained earlier this month, the soldiers accused of
murder have claimed that they are innocent and intend to fight the
charges.

In addition to the five soldiers accused in the killings, seven others
members of the brigade have been accused of other crimes, including
drug use and trying to impede the Army’s investigation.

Nicholas Riccardi of The Los Angeles Times reported from the base, “Of
the 18 witnesses listed for Monday’s hearing, 14 invoked their 5th
amendment right against self-incrimination to avoid testifying,
including the lieutenant of the platoon.”

On Monday, The Associated Press reported:

The case raised serious questions about the Army’s handling of it.
Specialist Adam Winfield, who is charged in the final killing, sent
troubling Facebook messages home to his parents in Florida after the
first killing. He wrote that he was being threatened to keep his mouth
shut about it and that he didn’t know what to do.

His father made nearly half a dozen calls to military officials that
day, and he said he warned them about the ongoing plot and the threats
against his son.

Also on Monday, the BBC reported:

Three Australian former special forces soldiers have been charged over
an operation in Afghanistan in which six civilians died and four were
injured.

The ex-commandos conducted a night-time raid in February 2009 on a
residential compound in Uruzgan province, where a Taliban leader was
said to be hiding. It is alleged they attacked the wrong house. Five
of the dead were children.

The charges include manslaughter and dangerous conduct.

Recently, Britain’s Channel 4 News visited Fort Hood, in Texas, to
report on how the United States Army is trying to deal with the mental
health problems caused by repeated deployments to Afghanistan and
Iraq.

85 Readers’ Comments

.1.Lowell D. Thompson
Chicago
September 27th, 2010
5:51 pm

Somebody once said the first casualty of war is truth. But according
to this story, it looks like it’s a toss up between morality and
sanity. …
Recommended by 48 Readers

.2.WillT26
Durham
September 27th, 2010
5:51 pm

The evidence is clear so the men must be found…..not guilty!
This is America and in America the more guilty you are the more likely
you are to go free. Let me think- it will probably be based on
‘inadmissable evidence’ or ‘prosecutorial misconduct’ or my favorite-
‘they only confessed because of a plea deal which allows them to walk
away.’
Ain’t justice great! Now if only they had robbed a liquor store
instead of murdering people….
Recommended by 33 Readers

.3.DC
NH
September 27th, 2010

5:52 pmUseless destruction of young American lives and psyches.
Useless destruction of Iraqi and Afghan lives. Useless war only
serving to make a few sub-humans rich. Now Petraeus says efforts have
begun to launch talks between Karzai and the Taliban. Right back where
we started, minus billions of dollars and over a million lives. George
W., Cheney and the rest of you, are you happy now, with your blood
money? Do you really rest well at night surrounded by so many ghosts
whose needless deaths rest on your shoulders? And the most amazing
thing is, we are STILL THERE. STILL THERE!
Recommended by 135 Readers

.4.Tom
Montreal
September 27th, 2010
5:52 pm

Start a war, give license to use violence and that is what you get:
clealy, some of these soldiers would perfectly fit in Saddam’s death
squads.
Every government knows the real consequences of the decision to go to
war.
So the Bush administration should be held accountable for everything
that happened.

What a disgrace…
Recommended by 107 Readers

.5.Anonymous
New York
September 27th, 2010
5:52 pm

This is beyond awful.

I apologize to the Afghans.
Recommended by 69 Readers

.6.rykart
usa
September 27th, 2010
5:52 pm

The troops are filth. That’s about the most diplomatic thing you can
say.
Recommended by 37 Readers

.7.marvinhjeglin
hemet, californa
September 27th, 2010
5:56 pm

these problems are endemic to war. butchering the enemy is what you
are trained to do. it happens, though counter productive to the
professed mission. Afghanistan and Iraq have damaged these
individuals, tens of thousands of soldiers and their families, and
bankrupted the country. Viet Nam is history, so do not pay any
attention to the fact these same problems appeared there. get out now.
use the money saved for infra structure and schools here.
Recommended by 42 Readers

.8.Pacifica
Orange County, CA
September 27th, 2010
5:57 pm

Horrible. For what it’s worth, one of the accused, Spc. Jeremy
Morlock, has associated with the Palins. Hmm, what does Sarah say
about family members “paling around” with him?

June 8th, 2010 6:21 PM
Solider accused of murder in Afghanistan crossed paths with the Palin
family
By John Cook / Yahoo! News

http://www.michaelmoore.com…

Recommended by 30 Readers

.9.wendyruth
boise ID
September 27th, 2010
6:23 pm

So let me get this straight. This guy may get off of the murders he
committed because he was so drugged up that he isn’t responsible, but
a decorated military nurse is fired because of her sexual preference?
Do I have this straight? What kind of country have we become?
Recommended by 106 Readers

.10.no more
no where
September 27th, 2010
6:23 pm

anyone who blames the infantryman should be given a sentence of
compulsory service.
Recommended by 7 Readers

.11.Rage Baby
NYC
September 27th, 2010
6:24 pm

Really? His name is Morlock? From beyond the grave, H. G. Wells is
smirking.
Recommended by 9 Readers

.12.SM
California
September 27th, 2010
6:24 pm

It is sad to see this sort of thing happening because it is clear that
the military brass look the other way when such horrible events occur.
It is also sad to see that our government is sending our young troops
into harms way and helping them become less and less human; and more
and more like the terrorists they are supposedly fighting. If this
confession is any measure of how the fight on terror is going, Osama
Bin Laden is winning because we are becoming more and more like him
and his mindless followers.
Recommended by 24 Readers .13.owen

bronx
September 27th, 2010
6:25 pmi’m sure bush, cheney and company sleep well, as well as sadam
and bin laden. Evil men cannot see their evil.
Recommended by 29 Readers

.14.Liz
Seattle
September 27th, 2010
6:25 pm

No, our troops are not filth. But in this case some filth certainly
penetrated their ranks. I am glad this story has made headlines and
garnered the outrage that it deserves.

Last time I checked, being on drugs was no defense for committing
murder. It is also not a valid excuse for endangering your fellow
soldiers (the ones who don’t pull innocent people out of their homes
and murder them in front of their families) by inciting the radicals
in the middle east to seek revenge.
Recommended by 27 Readers

.15.ashraf chowdhury
new york
September 27th, 2010
6:25 pm

HOW WE CRITICIZE HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION IN THIRD WORLD AND COMMUNIST
COUNTRIES ?
ABU-GARIB ALL OVER AGAIN? IS IT THE WAY OF WINNING AFGHAN WAR?
THOSE AFGHANS ARE HUMAN BEING TOO??
Recommended by 19 Readers

.16.Now-now
Minneapolis, MN
September 27th, 2010
6:26 pm

That’s what war is: an ugly, brutal, vicious, massacre orgy that robs
the participants of both their humanity and their souls. Karma … does
come back to bite and collect retributions. America was spared the
wrath of cosmic karma with Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and then Vietnam
and central America death squads because we had good people that saw
evil, reject it and condemn it. We now have blind patriotism, lapel
flags and 2 parties that are identical except in names. The end ain’t
gonna be pretty folks.
Recommended by 22 Readers

.17.THL
Vancouver, Canada
September 27th, 2010
6:26 pm

Keep in mind this is just the tip of the iceberg. Thousands upon
thousands of civilians have been murdered “for sport” or as
“collateral damage” in these aweful wars.
Recommended by 38 Readers

.18.Mark
Los Angeles
September 27th, 2010
6:26 pm

What those soldiers did is terrible, but not terribly surprising given
the conditions they were placed in. Subject young men to the stresses
that they were under in Afghanistan, and you have a recipe for
disaster. I don’t condone what they did, what I am saying is that a
lot of people would snap under the same circumstances. It is easy to
sit back here at home and spew out righteous indignation over what
those soldiers did. If I were on a jury, I might find them not guilty
by reason of temporary insanity.
Recommended by 8 Readers

.19.flyfysher
Westminster, Colorado
September 27th, 2010
6:27 pm

Frightening to think these soldiers are examples of the Army’s former
recruiting slogan to be all you can be.
Recommended by 18 Readers

.20.Max
Chicago
September 27th, 2010
6:27 pm

These troops are not bad apples–there is a pattern of moral
callousness and ethical unprofessionalism among most troops in most
armies, the most extreme versions of which result in cases like this.
Usually they’re swept under the rug, but this one has been publicized
so now it needs to move forward. Politicizing it, however, is a cheap
tactic on the part of liberals. Right-wing culture may have played
into the murderers’ worldview, but it did so with McVeigh and the
Unabomber as well. Michael Moore will only cause a backlash by trying
to link Palin with war crimes in such a tenuous, irresponsible way.
Recommended by 2 Readers .21.Bill Randle
The Big Apple
September 27th, 2010
6:27 pm

I’m shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!

Recommended by 6 Readers

.22.GGS
Ojai, CA
September 27th, 2010
6:27 pm

I’m going to suggest that everybody…everybody, read Mark Twain’s “War
Prayer,” because it is the only fit description of what we Americans
asked of our God when we went into this contrived war against Islam,
in the holy name of oil and gas. This is what war is. Did someone
think otherwise?
Recommended by 23 Readers

.23.NY Nice Guy
My Mind
September 27th, 2010
6:27 pm

I was in Army infantry training at Ft. Benning back in ’93. I’ll never
forget our Ranger Drill Sergeant (what a world of valor; half the
cadre were Rangers and/or Special Forces combat vets), after one of
the handful of rudimentary sessions on the Geneva Convention, asking,
rhetorically and in a lower tone of voice, something along the lines
of, “But if you’re reconnoitering behind enemy lines, what are you
going to do, take a prisoner? Tie him to a tree? Or abort your
mission?”

Hard choices. I know, I know, these kids were under no such
circumstances, really. But still, that’s the mindset drilled into you,
no matter what the brass say in front of the cameras.

The moment a person willingly accepts training to kill someone else,
he’s capable of anything else. That’s just the facts which limousine
liberals don’t understand (except when it comes to not paying taxes on
their illegal immigrant nannies and so forth, of course).
Recommended by 8 Readers

.24.mark Knox
Holyoke, MA
September 27th, 2010
6:28 pm

Greg Mortenson found a way to gain the hearts of the Afghans with very
little money and using indigenous labor, building schools. Why CNN,
ABC and FOX and everyone else focuses on the insanity of war and
destroying life… As terrible as this story is, I blame the media
conglomerates as much as anybody. This story just adds more fuel to
the fire over there, endangering more lives, and it is nothing new or
revealing – we’ve hear it all before, how many times before!
Now, how many stories do we hear about the Mortensons, the volunteers,
the human organizations … shame on CNN, ABC, …! Shame on this
continued tabloid mentality of war coverage.
Recommended by 11 Readers

25.Marina
ann arbor
September 27th, 2010
6:28 pm

Lets see- we brainwash very young men to be skillfully trained to kill
and think that is ok, and then send them to useless wars as fodder for
our elitist greed, and they crack and commit immoral acts, and then we
act like we are surprised- as if these very young killers sent to hell
should be the upstanding “heros” our 1940′s advertisements made them
out to be. Very enlightened way to run a country….
Recommended by 35 Readers

26.Doug4321Newark, NJSeptember 27th, 20106:29 pm

The military must reign in unlawful hostilities whenever they occur,
no matter who perpetrates them. Still, we ask a great deal of our
soldiers – to kill the enemy when ordered. It has to be expected that
these orders gravely affect a person’s soul and can render the soldier
dead to feelings for others. The death of compassion is compounded by
the atrocities that the enemy perpetrates on the soldier and his
comrades. Short and simple, we want our soldiers to be coldblooded
killers, and, when you reduce someone to that, it is not suprising
that atrocities like this follow.
Recommended by 5 Readers

27.TobyGASeptember 27th, 20106:33 pm

This guy is very normal; if you’re shocked, you’re out of touch with
US culture or naive… psychopathy is the norm… the immoral, deluded
norm.
Recommended by 14 Readers

28.DianeLouiseScottsdale, Az.September 27th, 20106:48 pm

Thank you Mr. Bush for starting up this totally needless war that has
gone on interminably, accomplished nothing, lost our country billions
of dollars, destroyed thousands of lives – and your motivation? Trying
to show up your old man and prove that General Schwarzkopf was wrong
when he said we had to back out of that hell hole because we had
accomplished our goals and could do nothing more. No, W. had to
override all common-sense advice and go off on his own. Thank you all
who voted for him ~ the mess we’re now in – at home and abroad lays on
the shoulders of this dimwit.
Recommended by 15 Readers

29.joespenthouseel paso, txSeptember 27th, 20106:48 pm

Rykart-If you have never served in a combat situation i suggest you
shut your mouth-S..t Happens,why not hold the right persons who are
really accountable to trial. I suffer with PTSD and i think the only
reason i haven’t lost it or lost it during my war time was because the
Grace of GOD!
Recommended by 0 Readers

30.Wilb PorterNL, CanadaSeptember 27th, 20106:50 pm

I suspect that this kind of thing is much more common than we expect.
If you teach people to kill and then brainwash them that your country
ia always right, they will do just about anything to live up to your
expectations including treating others as less than human. Maybe we
ought to reconsider this idea about ‘ supporting the troops.”
Recommended by 4 Readers

31.EDRNYSeptember 27th, 20106:50 pm

It’s amazing how the anti-Americans come crawling out to post their
hatred on the Times comment section.
Look, whenever you have many thousands of soldiers (or any group, for
that matter) together in one place, you always will get a tiny
percentage who are downright sick and evil individuals. But why must
these putrid America-haters paint a broad brush against the entire US
army? Why? I’ve already answered the question. It’s because living in
our own midst, in our own country, are America- hating ingrates.
Recommended by 0 Readers

32.GGSOjai, CASeptember 27th, 20106:50 pm

Ummm, NY Nice Guy? I could have been one of your Infantry training
cadre, had I not chosen a different career path in ’75, after six
years in. I ed your post before I finished reading it…my mistake. This
is a poor time and the wrong forum for a cheap and unworthy attempt at
a political shot.
Recommended by 3 Readers

33.MollaceToledo, OhioSeptember 27th, 20106:50 pm

There is nothing good about any of this and nothing good will come of
it regardless of the outcome. How will these young men ever fit into
society again? Killing innocent civilians is as horrific as sending
our volunteer troups into repeated deployments without any
acknowledgment or help for the strain they have to be under. Every bit
of this disgusting war amounts to depraved indifference to life any
way you look at it, I don’t care what side you are on. Thou shalt not
kill. No qualifiers.
Recommended by 17 Readers

34.EX-MarinePortland,OrSeptember 27th, 20106:51 pm

Yea. This stuff happens, on rare occasion. I’m surprised that it
doesn’t happen more often. We get frustrated with being messed with by
an enemy who blends well into the population and you don’t know who to
trust anymore. It happens when we shoot a thousand bullets for every
one bullet fired by the enemy. Unlike our thousand bullets that one
enemy bullet or IED always finds its target.
Recommended by 1 Reader

35.Barbara MichelToronto Ontario CanadaSeptember 27th, 20106:51 pm

I would be very interested to hear what psychiatrists or pyschologists
or chaplins have to say about the way certain soldiers are changed and
affected by the brutality of war. If you see a buddy in pieces after
stepping on an LED or if you see a child blown apart by a bomb, it
must affect you emotionally, especially if this happens several times.
I think some soldiers may be able to deal with looking at violence
like this; others may not and may turn to illegal drugs for
consolation as certain soldiers did in Vietnam. Finally, many soldiers
have been deployed several times. Again it would be worthwhile to hear
what medical professionals have to say about the mental health of
those currently in the military who have served in Iraq or Afghanistan
or both.
Recommended by 1 Reader

36.Keone MichaelsKauai, HawaiiSeptember 27th, 20106:51 pm

Remember the professional American soldiers in Iraq that schemed and
then raped and killed a young woman and her family? Yep our fine
military has a lot to be proud of? This is what you get when you
professionalize war and killing. End of the volunteer army and this
behavior became routine.
Recommended by 5 Readers

37.Dave HPortland OrSeptember 27th, 20106:51 pm

From Wasilla Alaska huh? All of the finest Americans come from there I
hear.
Recommended by 5 Readers

38.Caleb EnglerSan Miguel de Allende, MexicoSeptember 27th, 20106:51
pm

Satan, laughing, spreads his wings.
Recommended by 4 Readers

39.DavidToledoSeptember 27th, 20106:51 pm

Rumsfeld said, “Stuff happens.”

Afghanistan should have been a police action to destroy Al Qaeda
bases, quickly capture or kill as many Al Qaeda as possible, and get
out, scaring the evil out of the Taliban in the process. We should
never have let them know the limits of our power by trying to run the
non-country for 8+ years.

And we had no sane reason to go into Iraq at all.

But when you do go into these places in force and for many years,
(very predictable) stuff happens.
Recommended by 11 Readers

40.trblmkrNJSeptember 27th, 20106:52 pm

Boy, Wasilla sure produces some winners!
Recommended by 11 Readers

41.enochberkeley, caSeptember 27th, 20106:52 pm

Any coincidence that he is from Wasilla, AK…
Recommended by 1 Reader

42.Concerned CitizenNJSeptember 27th, 20106:52 pm

Apparenly Wasilla has another proud son to call their own
Recommended by 1 Reader

43.VJNashvilleSeptember 27th, 20106:54 pm

Hashish smoking soldiers? That hashish had nothing to do with their
crimes, it just let them sleep at night, but no way they smoked it and
went out shooting.
Recommended by 3 Readers

44.Michael H.Dallas, TXSeptember 27th, 20106:54 pm

To condemn the U.S. military for the actions of a few is logically
fallacious. It’s the equivalent of painting the entire the Democractic
Party as sleazy, embezzling, immoral cretins because of the actions of
the Bell County, Calif clowns. It’s unfair and unserious.
Recommended by 0 Readers

45.TylerNYCSeptember 27th, 20107:01 pm

Most enlisted soldiers are fine upstanding people, but I know without
a doubt that there are psychopaths and very dangerous individuals who
should never be sent overseas to represent our country. I am sure that
the repeated deployments and pressure of being in a combat zone 24/7
contribute to the hopelessness and high suicide rate, but it does not
explain the seeming joy these guys got out of murdering civilians.
Recommended by 5 Readers

46.wezanderbangkokSeptember 27th, 20107:01 pm

Did they waterboard the confession out of him?
Recommended by 1 Reader

47.Baffled ObserverWashington StateSeptember 27th, 20107:02 pm

This is so horrible I don’t know what to say. When they were kids,
dreaming about who they would like to be when they grew up, is this
what these young men pictured?

And for God’s sake, their victims…is there no end to this?

We’ve had Vietnam all over again, My Lai massacre and all, and this
time at least, we should have known. A lot of us DID know, and voted
against doing it again, and lost. Now what?

More and more, I think about leaving this bloody country.
Recommended by 10 Readers

48.Bill DelamainSan FranciscoSeptember 27th, 20107:02 pm

Well I suppose it will be even harder to win the hearts and minds of
Afghans after the world see those videos…
Recommended by 5 Readers

49.JimVASeptember 27th, 20107:02 pm

We need to stop sending our mentally handicapped young people to war
and give them educational and job opportunities. We are so busy in
this country hating on each other and demonizing Islam. This is not
the America my father and I fought for.
Recommended by 18 Readers

50.GGSOjai, CASeptember 27th, 20107:45 pm

The military is one of several tools at the disposal of the
government. Another, though seldom-used tool at the government’s
disposal, is diplomacy. Using the military when diplomacy would be
better suited to the government’s stated intentions only puts the lie
to the government’s stated intentions. Military = wrong tool for the
job 99% of the time. Like using a hatchet to tune a piano, and being
surprised at the results. This soldier and his comrades are hatchets
wielded by an irresponsible government in the pursuit of something
other than what we have all been told. They have destroyed the piano
and are not going to stop until they have broken the hatchet as well.
Recommended by 2 Readers

51.MTNew York, NYSeptember 27th, 20107:45 pm

Anyone who tries to make a political statement out of this one
incident is moronic. It was exposed. Are all cops dirty because a
small percentage are? We hold our troops to a much higher standard
than most others, certainly our opponent which has no standards.
Sometimes they fail and fail miserably, as in this case. There are
tens of thousands of troops, each with hundreds of interactions a year
in theater. Do the math on how many actually degenerate to this level.
It’s quite small. I’d like to see some of the other professions like
law, journalism, teaching be subjected to anything close to the stress
and margin for error faced by these guys everyday. None could hack it.
Recommended by 1 Reader

52.rykartusaSeptember 27th, 20107:45 pm

I don’t excuse a poor kid from the ghetto who joins a gang and commits
murder or rape.

But I’m supposed to excuse people who willfully join the US armed
services, a terror outfit responsible for the deaths of millions of
innocent people?

Enlisting is the initial crime from which all the other crimes follow.

And don’t try to tell me the guy in this article is a military
failure. He is a military success story–the desired result of training
designed to create murderers and monsters.
Recommended by 10 Readers

53.Old MSgtSCSeptember 27th, 20107:45 pm

Let’s not get too carried away. These things happen in war, and aren’t
exactly uncommon among civilians in peacetime. Some folks do bad
things, and in this case (depending on what is brought out at trial) a
few may have broken military discipline. Recreational homicide isn’t
the right of anyone, least of all a trained military professional.
If they are guilty, throw the book (in this case the UCMJ) at them,
but don’t assume they are typical. Remember the soldier who turned
them in had the guts to do the right thing.
Recommended by 2 Readers

54.JamesNew York CitySeptember 27th, 20107:45 pm

To “no more” – These men weren’t there because of compulsory service.
They choose to join the Army. They were in Afghanistan because that’s
what the Army does. Don’t make excuses for these jerks.
Recommended by 8 Readers

55.army wifekailua, hawaiiSeptember 27th, 20107:45 pm

i hope the airing of this video doesn’t incite violence against our
deployed troops. the alleged mistakes of a few do not characterize the
entire military force.

and, doesn’t he seem drugged? i know the article mentions this, but he
seems to be on some kind of hypnotic. can we trust a confession from a
person on ambien or narcotic pain relievers?

if in fact he was under the influence and none of his story is true, i
hope the ny times, and any other media entity that airs this, take
responsibility for airing this inflammatory video and any retaliation
that may occur to our troops.
Recommended by 0 Readers

56.J.San RamonSeptember 27th, 20107:45 pm

How is this any different than the rest of the ungodly killing done
during these horrific wars started by choice by Bush and Cheney?
Recommended by 6 Readers

57.JackNew York CitySeptember 27th, 20107:59 pm

Things like this happen in war. But don’t paint the U.S. Army with a
broad brush. Just like MOST Muslims are NOT Terrorists, MOST U.S.
Soldiers are NOT Murderers.

“C-O-U-N-T-R-Y
Duty, Honor, Country unitil I die”
Recommended by 0 Readers

58.LynnWashington, DCSeptember 27th, 20107:59 pm

This story reminded me of an episode of Frontline from a few months
back: The Wounded Platoon. The program had described similar instances
committed by other soldiers.

http://www.pbs.org…

Recommended by 1 Reader

59.David in NYCNew York, NYSeptember 27th, 20107:59 pm

“Morlock, from Wasilla, Alaska”

Ah, yes, more of those “Real Americans” doing more of those “Real
American” things. Some of them slaughter wolves from helicopters, some
of them kill innocent civilians for body part souvenirs.

They have all the morals of pond scum. At least this one’s not
lecturing the rest of the country about it.
Recommended by 11 Readers

60.Sheila CaseyWashington DCSeptember 27th, 20107:59 pm

Five children killed when ex-special forces made a night time raid on
the wrong house. Just consider the mammoth amount of pain and terror
contained in that one sentence.

Imagine, if you have children, foreign commandos busting into your
house late at night as your family lies peacefully sleeping, and
before the event is over, your children are dead.

Later you find out that they goofed, they “had the wrong house.”

How they must hate us.
Recommended by 9 Readers

61.A long time agoCal.September 27th, 20107:59 pm

Good Morning Vietnam
Recommended by 4 Readers

62.MGNYCSeptember 27th, 20107:59 pm

To those posters who excuse this behavior as a part of war, would you
say the same of an Afghan, of Iraqi soldlier lining up and killing an
American civilian for sport?
Recommended by 10 Readers

63.Sonora docArizonaSeptember 27th, 20107:59 pm

Where are all those Fundamentalist generals who have been insisting to
their their underlings this is a war against Islam? Why haven’t we
heard anything from them about these ‘ungodly’ acts?? This miliitary
is a mess.
Recommended by 6 Readers

64.GDWHadley, NYSeptember 27th, 20107:59 pm

Responding to Rykart – these troops are not filth. They are human
beings, young men making multiple deployments. They are more than
stressed out, they are mentally damaged. The real responsible parties
are George Bush, Dick Cheney, and Barack Obama, who lack the political
courage to start up a draft that would prevent these multiple
deployments.

This kind of murder was commonplace in Vietnam, where the men sent
into combat knew we only had to survive for a year and then we could
go home and try to forget all about it. I can’t imagine the stress of
returning again and again into a combat zone.

One suggestion: If we want to stop getting into these idiotic, immoral
wars, all Congress would have to do is pass a law (ha ha) that would
require that all the appropriately aged children of the president,
vice president, secretary of defense, and every member of congress who
supports the decision to go to war would be required to enter the
military and be sent to the front lines. I guarantee if Bush and
Cheney would have had to send their children to Iraq, that was never
would have happened.
Recommended by 8 Readers

65.coysKosovoSeptember 27th, 20107:59 pm

Manny here would agree that one idiot does not represent the U.S.
Army. Most troops there do what their service requires and they are
not there on VACATION, “our” government sent those troops to sacrifice
their lives for “our safety.” Obama, Bush, all did it. At least Bush
never backed on it, whereas the current President is flip-floping year
in year out.
Republicans pass their bills no matter what dems say, Dems have no
balls to run a government.
Salute to our troops and my apologize to victim’s families
Recommended by 1 Reader

66.bill hubbardSeattleSeptember 27th, 20107:59 pm

Baffled Observer …
please, DO Leave ! why wait for tomorrow, bro’ … t’night’d be a good
time for you to Get out of Dodge; better’n waitin’ for t’morra. No
kiddin’, I’ll pay your airfare … just sign an agreement to never
return and the ticket is yours.
Recommended by 0 Readers

67.JimmytwoshoesTallahasseeSeptember 27th, 20107:59 pm

Some guys think they just have to kill somebody, and these guys are
not the only ones. I would guess every PTSD group has one or two that
has done this. My group at Tomah did, and those guys will suffer with
guilt until the day they die.
Recommended by 2 Readers

68.nee breslinnew mexicoSeptember 27th, 20107:59 pm

The military is doing a pathetic job of “debriefing” after deployment.
There is so much more that needs to be done, it’s a cruel joke that
they let these soldiers come “home” and released. Many of these
soldiers don’t know what home is anymore and need to be brought back
to a different reality that is home life.
Recommended by 2 Readers

69.RCPompano Beach FLSeptember 27th, 20107:59 pm

Preface. These men are criminals. I am in no way whatsoever condoning
their actions.

People! Why so shocked? This is nothing new in the history of
“Humanity”. It’s been going on since before our ancestors dropped down
from the trees in pre-history. Since the invention of writing, there
are countless accounts of barbarism in “war”… that make this situation
pale in comparison. Name your war, and the decade or century that it
was waged in. Terrible as it is, it’s the same old story.

Are you shocked because they are Americans? Does American nature
transcend human nature? Though you and I may feel that it should, the
reality is obvious… it doesn’t. Read your history! The battlefield
fosters a sense of “I can do whatever the hell I want to”. It’s been
that way since the first Alley Oop picked up a stick and clubbed
another Alley Oop in the head.

Do you think that because there are laser targeting rifles, laser
guided bombs, (smart-bombs), and super high-tech weaponry, that the
battlefield somehow became magically devoid of human nature? The only
differences between Ug the warrior caveman and modern warriors are the
camouflage fatigues… and a monumentally increased ability and
proficiency in to kill and commit atrocities.

Consider: The American military has a strict judicial system in place,
and penal code RE personnel committing human rights violations, i.e.
War crimes. There is accountability, and has been mentioned in the
article, if found guilty, they may pay the ultimate price… the death
penalty. Nevertheless, they seemingly committed these crimes… despite
the potential repercussions facing them. Imagine what combatants are
capable of when there is no potential accountability and no potential
repercussions. Say hello to the non-heroic, little spoken of, and very
dark reality that is can be war… and is war.

War is the atrocity. And it enables men to take that little step
backwards, or perhaps upwards, back up into the trees. As long as war
exists, these atrocities will occur. It hasn’t changed in multi-
millennia… and it’s not going to change anytime soon. Quite
disheartening.
Recommended by 7 Readers

70.JustWonderingNew YorkSeptember 27th, 20109:52 pm

While some are looking at this as just another bunch of progressives
vilifying the Army, America and our war effort (such as it is), we
also need to realize that 20 minutes after these guys finished their
killing, the word was out that another innocent victim was added to
the body count and that the American occupiers had mutilated the body.
Shortly after the killing, family, friends and neighbors of the
victims were happily joining and/or supporting the Taliban (or Al
Quaeda in Mesopotamia). All of these groups know full well that the
best recruiting ads they can get are when we prove their propaganda
true. Regardless of how much we do right, all we need to do is
something like this and years of effort go to waste.

We need to aggressively prosecute this and it needs to be public. We
need to shake up the command structure to make sure that they
understand and communicate down that this will not be tolerated. The
guys on the ground need to realize that this make a bad situation even
worse and more of them die as a result. We need to seriously set up a
training program that is designed to help our troops work with and
understand the people we’re “helping” and why doing it right makes
them safer. This kind of training is probably way more complicated
than most of the weapons systems they train on but way more important
for this kind of war.

We also need to take a hard look at the pharmacy they’re feeding these
kids to keep them in the field deployment after deployment. A NYT
Times Magazine article a while back described a Marine unit where
their platoon leader ticked off who was on meds and what kind. We all
know the one – Paxil, Prozac, Zoloft and Xanax. Just so they can stay
in the field. Bear in mind, if you know someone (a neighbor perhaps)
this kind of medication probably could preclude them from owning a
firearm. Yet, we send these guys out in the field in a profoundly
fragile state and wonder what happened when something like this
happens.

We also know that the military has a long and rich tradition of
covering up the truth – especially when they perceive it will put them
in a bad light or it serves their purposes – Pat Tilman comes to mind.
But just like in Vietnam, we’re right back to shooting the messenger.

If our military has any sort of strategy that includes winning “hearts
and minds” then this has to stop. No excuses, no tolerance, no half-
measures and no weaseling. The cost is too high – the lives of our men
and women, the lives of innocent citizens caught up in the next
attack, and the future of these countries where we’ve engaged our
troops.
Recommended by 1 Reader

71.The truly guilty, i.e. those at the top, will forever go
freeWashington, DCSeptember 27th, 20109:52 pmThese 19-22 year-olds
have been turned into monsters. The problem is, it’s not really a
surprise to the men who sent them into harm’s way that this would
happen. How many Vietnam veterans are willing to openly share their
experiences there, as still-pubescent young, as part of a killing
machine? Very few, and those who do reveal a horrible transformation,
endemic to this kind of war (unclear mission, unclear urgency, unclear
protocol) that inevitably yields this result, not in all soldiers, but
in a predictable percentage of them. To the powers that be, it is an
acceptable price. Is that what our liberty stands for?
Recommended by 1 Reader

72.garybCOSeptember 27th, 20109:52 pm

Really? The poor people who join the volunteer army and the career-
minded officers who lead them aren’t the most moral and intelligent
people? You mean if you take the poorest, most uneducated people, give
them weapons and send them to a foreign country they might not do a
very good job or reflect well on the USA? Why it’s treasonous to say
all those guys who chose military service over jail isn’t a hero!

Or maybe the draft was beneficial in providing quality people to fight
our wars, in addition to preventing war in the first place.
Recommended by 2 Readers

73.namecscPennsylvaniaSeptember 27th, 20109:52 pm

No soldier should EVER be charged with ‘murder’ for killing the enemy
or those associated with the enemy, even if mistaken. We send our
soldiers to do the job of killing in our country’s name, they are
trained and encouraged to do this job, and if occasionally they go a
little overboard, how dare anyone react with outrage, let alone
criminal charges — this is what we do and need to do. The last thing
the USA needs is soldiers fearful of doing the job they’re sent to do,
or putting themselves in harm’s way out of uncertainty. Don’t
disparage our armed forces over these isolated incidents.
Recommended by 0 Readers

74.RJFayetteville,NCSeptember 27th, 20109:52 pm

What about innocent until proven guilty.
What about trial by jury.
A lot of you folks seem to assume that this is the whole story, and
are willing to throw these young troops under the jail. I’m not.
Our armed forces are under a tremendous amount of stress, with
multiple deployments(a Ft Bragg soldier was just killed last week in
Afganistan on his 9th deployment) and no end in sight.
If this is true, the soldiers will be dealt with, until then, I offer
my prayers to the people involved, Afgani and American.
Recommended by 0 Readers

75.John SinNYCSeptember 27th, 20109:52 pm

Our army accepts recruits to fill quotas, so the military if you will
excuse the pun is an institution that requires bodies. Quite a few of
the recruits accepted into the military were not suitable candidates
for combat operations. We now see the result of the lack of
psychological screening that the military fails to perform. But of
course as many have pointed out these wars were almost pointless with
the exception of making the military industrial comples billions of
dollars while Americans became expendable cannon fodder. Now America
has been shamed by its soldiers who have taken the lives of innocent
civilians. NOT GOOD!
ed by 4 Readers
76.letxequalxNjSeptember 27th, 20109:52 pm

The young man in the video appeared under duress, out of uniform,
fidgeting and bouncing around, clearly without sleep and under the
influence of some kind of drug, perhaps the codeine mentioned in the
article, If the futures of four young men are on the line, I would be
more interest in hearing what he has to say with a clear head. Maybe
this is how they get confessions in Chicago but it is not how we
should treat our own servicemen.
Recommended by 0 Readers

77.JWGaithersburg, MDSeptember 27th, 20109:52 pm

@24 Blaming the media, (or Bush, or Obama or the Military Brass for
that matter) is a cop out. We are all culpable. The media outlets
depend on viewers (us) to sustain their business models. We vote with
our eyes by watching/reading the sensational news stories. Mortenson’s
story is inspirational, but the outrageous will trump the feel good
story every time.
Recommended by 0 Readers

78.michaelannbspringfield, MASeptember 27th, 20109:52 pm

I’m worried for Winfield. He tried to tell the Army what was happening
and I’ll be he pays one of the highest prices.
Recommended by 1 Reader

79.TonyOhioSeptember 27th, 20109:52 pm

The article describes a confession made on “tape”. Hey guys, nobody
does video on tape and haven’t since the last century. Perhaps the
confession was on a video. And to the reporter and all the folks at
his newspaper, welcome to the twenty-first century.
Recommended by 0 Readers

80.Anthony DavisSeoul, South KoreaSeptember 27th, 20109:52 pm

If the soldier had been Muslim, some posts would be confirming how his
religion made him what he was. If the soldier had been black, few
would say openly, but many would assume the worst of his race. I am
not going to blame the Army or the kid’s hometown of Wasilla. A
psychopath is a psychopath. He should be tried as a traitor as his
actions have surely aided and abetted the cause of bin Laden by
fueling further hatred of America among the Afghanistan people.
Recommended by 0 Readers

81.MukulmdSeptember 27th, 20109:52 pm

This just shows that killing innocent people is not done by terrorist
but troops can and will do it. Terrorist do it for their perverted
reasons and troops can it as sport or fun.

In short human life is cheap and worthless when mind is bent out of
shape, what sorry state of conditions in this world.

Recommended by 1 Reader

82.rykartusaSeptember 27th, 20109:52 pm

Army wife post #55 shows no compassion for the Afghans murdered by our
lovely troops and has the audacity to imply that the Times is to blame
for reporting this latest in a long series of nauseating outrages by
our soldiers.

I’d say she makes it pretty obvious why American GIs are universally
reviled.
Recommended by 5 Readers

83.rykartusaSeptember 28th, 201012:01 am

All of these lame attempts to defend the troops are pretty hollow in
light of the fact that MANY troops have themselves come forward to
declare that atrocities against civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan are
part of the DAILY routine, (as they were during America’s genocide in
Indochina). Orders for the massacre of civilians often come from
military superiors. To chalk this up to some low level bad apples is a
lie.

And for those who wonder why this doesn’t happen more often–it DOES
happen more often. Obama doesn’t want you to know that, which is why
his justice dept is going after whistle blowers, not that psychopaths
committing these crimes. Just look at the Wikileaks case and the
“Collateral Murder” video. No charges against the criminals. Only the
whistle blower who leaked footage of this atrocity.
Recommended by 0 Readers

84.vjdSacramento, CASeptember 28th, 201012:12 am

The Military trains people to become killers. What do they expect? Is
it the fault of the soldier or of the government for creating the
means of death…..
Recommended by 0 Readers

85.Baffled ObserverWashington StateSeptember 28th, 201012:13 am

bill hubbard

Somehow, I didn’t get the intellectual content of your argument. Do
you mean that my revulsion against this incident, my rejection of
killing civilians for fun, makes you think I’m a poor US citizen? If
so, what kind of country do you want to have?

My ancestors fought in the American Revolution, and for this country
in every war since then. I don’t think the “love it or leave it”
nation you envision is at all what they had in mind.

Keep your airfare. Spend your money on a course in American history
and civics. I live five miles from the Canadian border. If and when I
decide to give up on the US, I’ll walk.
Recommended by 0 Readers

Thank you for your submission. Comments are moderated and generally
will be posted if they are on-topic and not abusive. An email will be
sent to you at ***@msn.com (Change e-mail)

Your Submitted Comment

Display Name navanavonmilita
Location USA

Comment

I have an Idea

Since Afghanistan war is getting out of hand and since our soldiers
are tired of playing good soldiers, let president Barack Obama declare
the war as a victory of sorts.

Mr president, I urge you to do following for the good of the country,
for the good of America and for the good of the world peace. Before
our soldiers start murdering their own kind and create a situation,
sort of internal inferno that cannot be contained by US military,
oops, military-industrial complex, following items must receive a top
priority.

1. Declare a moral victory.

2. Leave Afghanistan, oops, allow the armed forces to leave
Afghanistan and also leave Iraq.

3. Leave the White House.

4. Leave the active politics and join the Navy to see the world

5. Leave the forwarding address so that your peacenik fans, such as
yours truely among millions of others, could send you pictures of
happy Americans enjoying their peace, oops, apple pies.

http://cogitoergosum.co.cc/

…and I am Sid Harth

Drug Use Cited in Unit Tied to Civilian Deaths

By WILLIAM YARDLEY
Published: September 27, 2010

JOINT BASE LEWIS-MCCHORD, Wash. — Members of an American Army unit
consumed with drug use randomly chose Afghan civilians to kill and
then failed to report the abuses out of fear they would suffer
retaliation from their commander, according to testimony in military
court here on Monday.

United States Army
Corp. Jeremy Morlock

The Lede Blog: Soldier Describes Killing of Afghan in Tape (September
27, 2010) The testimony, in a hearing to determine whether one of
those soldiers, Specialist Jeremy N. Morlock, would face a court-
martial and a possible death sentence, came the same day that a
videotape in the case was leaked showing Specialist Morlock talking to
investigators about the killings in gruesome detail with no apparent
emotion.

Top Army officials worry that the case against Specialist Morlock and
four other soldiers accused in the killings of three Afghan civilians
will undermine efforts to build relationships with Afghans in the war
against the Taliban.

The soldiers are accused of possessing dismembered body parts,
including fingers and a skull, and collecting photographs of dead
Afghans. Some images show soldiers posing with the dead. As many as 70
images are believed to be in evidence.

Some of the soldiers have said in court documents that they were
forced to participate in the killings by a supervisor, Sgt. Calvin
Gibbs, who is also accused in the killings. All five defendants have
said they are not guilty.

In one incident, Specialist Morlock recounted in the video, he
described Sergeant Gibbs identifying for no apparent reason an Afghan
civilian in a village, then directing Specialist Morlock and another
soldier to fire on the man after Sergeant Gibbs lobbed a grenade in
his direction.

“He kind of placed me and Winfield off over here so we had a clean
line of sight for this guy and, you know, he pulled out one of his
grenades, an American grenade, popped it, throws the grenade, and
tells me and Winfield: ‘All right, wax this guy. Kill this guy, kill
this guy,’ ” Specialist Morlock said in the video.

Referring to the Afghan, the investigator asked: “Did you see him
present any weapons? Was he aggressive toward you at all?”

Specialist Morlock replied: “No, not at all. Nothing. He wasn’t a
threat.”

As Monday’s hearing was getting under way, CNN and ABC News broadcast
the video. In the CNN clip and the ABC clip, Specialist Morlock,
speaking in a near monotone, looks like a teenager recounting a story
to his parents.

CNN also broadcast video of the interview of a soldier who is not
accused in the killings but has been accused of lesser crimes, Cpl.
Emmitt R. Quintal.

When asked by an investigator when and how often members of the unit
used illegal drugs, Corporal Quintal, seated in camouflage fatigues,
said it occurred on “bad days, stressful days, days that we just
needed to escape.”

The interview with Specialist Morlock was conducted in Kandahar in
May, while he was en route to a medical evaluation for what his
lawyers said was possibly a traumatic brain injury suffered during his
deployment. They say he was taking medication prescribed by military
doctors for sleep deprivation, pain and muscle stress, though they
said they could not yet establish exactly when he had taken the
medication and how it might have affected him.

Specialist Morlock, who grew up in Wasilla, Alaska, appeared in court
on Monday but did not testify.

Michael Waddington, his lawyer, questioned Army investigators by phone
from their duty station in Afghanistan. Mr. Waddington repeatedly
asked whether they found Specialist Morlock to be under the influence
of medication in the interviews. Some investigators described
Specialist Morlock as tired and sometimes slouching, but they said he
was coherent and had a strong recollection of details.

The video, provided to defense lawyers to help them prepare their
cases, was not intended by the military to be made public.

“The disclosure of these video recordings is troubling because it
could adversely affect the military justice process,” said Col. Tom
Collins, an Army spokesman.

The power of images in the case was apparent last week, when the
commander of the Stryker brigade in which the soldiers serve ordered
photographic evidence to be strictly controlled by investigators at
Joint Base Lewis-McChord, with access limited to lawyers.

A memo circulated by a military defense lawyer the previous week
described an inadvertent release of photographs, including three that
show American soldiers holding up the heads of dead Afghans. It was
unclear whether all of the pictures showed soldiers in the cases,
though military prosecutors said Monday that Specialist Morlock was in
at least one image, apparently with a dead Afghan.

Photographic evidence could play an important role in the Army’s case,
as will statements from soldiers. No bodies have been recovered, and a
military investigator testified on Monday that the nature of the areas
where the crimes occurred, including religious views of residents and
potential danger to American soldiers, prevented them from conducting
crime scene investigations.

“To exhume a body would cause a lot of issues, even if it was for a
good purpose,” said Special Agent Anderson D. Wagner.

Mr. Wagner noted that at least two statements, from Specialist Morlock
and another soldier charged, Pfc. Adam C. Winfield, corroborated
elements of each other’s story. He also said there was little physical
evidence connecting the soldiers to the killings. “I don’t know the
final thing that killed those guys, whether it was a bullet or whose
grenade it was,” Mr. Wagner said.

The Army’s case is complicated by claims that it ignored warnings that
there was trouble in the unit. Private Winfield’s father has said he
repeatedly tried to alert military officials that his son had told him
through Facebook in February that a murder was committed by members of
his unit in January. The soldiers are accused of killings in January,
February and May.

Mr. Waddington said in an interview that his client was present where
the three crimes are said to have taken place, but that he had not
killed anyone.

Mr. Wagner, the investigator, said that during his interview in May,
Specialist Morlock had feared retaliation for talking.

Lawyers for Specialist Morlock told reporters during a break that the
case reflected a “failed policy” in Afghanistan, and that soldiers
like Specialist Morlock should never have been allowed to continue
with their unit given the medication they say he was on and the
alleged widespread use of drugs in the unit. Seven other soldiers in
the unit are accused of other crimes, including hashish possession.

It could be weeks before the military investigator presiding over the
hearing, Judge Thomas Molloy, determines how to charge Specialist
Morlock.

Elisabeth Bumiller contributed reporting from Washington.

U.S. and Afghan Forces Seize Biggest Drug Cache to Date

By SABRINA TAVERNISE
Published: May 23, 2009

KABUL, Afghanistan — American and Afghan forces seized what the
American military called the single largest drug cache to date in a
four-day operation that began Tuesday in the south of the country.

The seizure by Afghan Army commandos and American forces took place in
Marjeh, a town in Helmand Province, the American military said in a
statement on Saturday. In all, soldiers found more than 101 tons of
narcotics, including heroin, poppy seeds, opium and hashish. Large
amounts of heroin processing materials were also confiscated, the
military said.

Heroin is a major source of income for the Taliban in Afghanistan, and
the American military has said it would be a major focus of future
operations as more troops are moved into Afghanistan this summer under
President Obama’s plan.

The drugs were taken in a central market area in the town. A battle
ensued in which, according to the American military, 60 insurgents
were killed. An American military spokesman said the allies met a
surprising level of resistance, fighting the militants for four days
in gun battles and by aerial strikes.

The military said that commandos also found bomb-making materials,
including 30 tons of ammonium nitrate, pressure plate triggers,
military grade explosives and ammunition vests.

The spokesman for the American forces, Col. Greg Julian, said the
operation had “severely disrupted,” one of the main narcotics hubs in
southern Afghanistan.

The Other Front

Back in Kabul, Never at Peace
Tyler Hicks/The New York Times

STREET LIFE Refugees have streamed into Kabul, and many become
beggars, like this woman caring for her sick son.

Photographs and text by TYLER HICKS
Published: July 6, 2008
My first trip to Kabul was in 2001. I arrived as Northern Alliance
soldiers were fighting Taliban gunmen in and around the Afghan
capital. Those who resisted were killed, and those captured were more
likely to be executed than taken prisoner. There was a power vacuum in
Kabul, a brief moment when one set of rulers fled and the next had not
yet taken over. This can be a liberating time for a photographer.
There were no clear rules, no central authority that might restrict
you from taking pictures. I’ve returned to Afghanistan nearly every
year since then.

Reach of War

Go to Complete Coverage
Multimedia

Audio Slide Show

Photographer’s Journal: Kabul in Transition TODAY, at first glance,
Kabul’s dusty stalls and kebab joints, with their bearded men and
covered women, look much the same — in at least one important way — as
they did when the Taliban were forced to flee. Ordinary people seem
stoic under the circumstances, which are better than they were in 2001
but still deeply uncertain. Generations of conflict have numbed the
senses. From the Russian occupation during the 1980s, through the
years of Taliban rule in the 1990s, and now the intensifying coalition
war against the Taliban insurgency, violence has become ingrained in
their lives. After a recent period being embedded with the United
States Marines in southern Afghanistan, I stopped in Kabul to wander
the streets and take photos of a city forever in transition. The
Western presence was something not tolerated during Taliban rule, so
there have been some changes.

A new shopping mall, with escalators in a city where constant
electricity is a luxury, offers Western-style clothes, gold jewelry, a
cafe. A fast-food establishment, mimicking American chains, offers
fried chicken and fries instead of lamb kebab and rice.

Meanwhile, refugees and internally displaced civilians, left homeless
by decades of war, have created a beggar society, with the sick and
disabled desperate for food and work. The cost of housing in urban
Kabul is very high compared to the countryside, and many people live
in crumbling buildings and makeshift tents.

There is also, on a hill overlooking the city, an Olympic-size pool
built by the Soviets in the 1980s. It is said that the Taliban forced
criminals off the platforms to their deaths at the bottom of the pool.
Now, as then, it contains little or no water.

With unemployment at about 40 percent, a large number of idle men have
little to do. Snooker clubs, where men play and smoke cigarettes, are
popular. So are small video arcades. Most popular are the Indian and
Pakistani movies that dominate the theaters; there, for the price of a
ticket, viewers can watch increasingly revealing scenes of women.

Drug addicts crowd into a dilapidated section of the old city, smoking
hashish and shooting heroin. Drug addiction is on the rise in
Afghanistan, fed in part by a flow of refugees from Pakistan, who find
no work but can buy the drugs cheaply. War or no war, West or no West,
Afghanistan remains the world’s largest producer of opium, an industry
that the Taliban continue to profit from.

The newly resurgent Taliban continue to push for greater influence,
and not just in the remote regions near the Pakistan border. A recent
assassination attempt on President Hamid Karzai during a military
parade in Kabul killed three people. Then the Taliban freed 1,200
inmates in a brazen attack on a prison in the southern city of
Kandahar.

The Taliban, clearly, are still strong in Afghanistan. So war, as it
has been for generations, is never far away.

…and I am Sid Harth

Conflict, Hot Off The Presses, News, Views and Reviews, Terrorism

28/09/2010

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