Discussion:
DEFEND AB, DON'T EMBRACE HIM
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and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)
2010-04-04 00:33:07 UTC
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Defend AB, don't embrace him

By Ashok Malik
Editorial
The Pioneer
Saturday, April 3, 2010

On November 19, 1982, the Ninth Asian Games opened in Delhi. For
Indians of a certain generation it was an iconic moment. Memories of
the inaugural ceremony still remain. Among them was a message to
participants from around Asia, welcoming them to India and its
hospitality.

It was a pre-recorded audio clip but the voice was unmistakable. To
make doubly sure, Doordarshan's cameras focussed on the man behind
the baritone: Amitabh Bachchan was at Jawaharlal Nehru Stadium that
day, an honoured guest of the Government of India and of the Asian
Games Special Organising Committee, entities dominated by the
Congress.

Would it have been appropriate for the BJP, the Janata Party or the
Lok Dal -- among other Opposition parties of the time -- to ask
Amitabh Bachchan to clarify his position on the Emergency, which had
ended only five years earlier? By associating himself with a party
and a Prime Minister -- Mrs India Gandhi -- that had suspended civil
liberties, outlawed dissent and imprisoned political opponents, was
he not sending a sinister signal? Was the fact that Mrs Gandhi had
been elected back to office in 1980, and so validated by a popular
mandate, as Congress sympathisers had suggested, reason enough to
forget the dark period between 1975 and 1977?

Would the following questions have been in order: "If Amitabh is a
sensitive person, which he claims to be, then he must tell the nation
where he stands. Remember, Indira has been compared to Mussolini"; or
"Amitabh Bachchan, do you endorse what happened during the
Emergency?"

Replace 'Indira' with 'Modi', 'Mussolini' with 'Milosevic' and
'Emergency' with 'riots' -- a reference to the Gujarat religious
violence of 2002, following the Godhra train massacre -- and the
quotes above are verbatim reproductions of what Mr Manish Tiwari, the
Congress spokesperson, was reported as having said in the past week.

Without a doubt, linking Amitabh Bachchan's minor, voice-
ambassadorial participation in the opening ceremony of the Asian
Games to any views he may or may not have had on the Emergency would
have been ridiculous. The two issues were just not related and needed
to be seen as separate. Similarly, his endorsement of Gujarat's
tourism potential -- specifically promoting the Tourism Corporation
of Gujarat -- cannot be reason to call for a liberal-Left
excommunication of him and a public denunciation of his sense of
right and wrong by every tin-pot spokesperson of a political party.

Consider another counter-factual. In 2004, Amitabh Bachchan played an
upright policeman in a Govind Nihalani film called Dev. It was a
thinly veiled interpretation of the Gujarat incidents of 2002. As per
the film's script, religious riots broke out, Muslims were
victimised, a young Muslim, Fardeen Khan, lost his gentle father to
the frenzy and turned to extremism. Bigoted police officers didn't
help the cause of justice. In this madness, only Amitabh Bachchan's
character stood out, taking on prejudiced colleagues and a biased
political system.

Some weeks ago, Amitabh Bachchan turned up in Gandhinagar and
requested the Gujarat Government for an entertainment tax exemption
for his film Paa. What if Chief Minister Narendra Modi -- a man with
a long memory -- had refused this concession and let it be known he
was doing so because he thought Dev was a propaganda tool against his
Government? How would the Congress and Mr Tiwari have reacted?

The Congress is completely within its rights to oppose Mr Modi or
even Amitabh Bachchan, given the latter's testy relationship with the
Nehru-Gandhi family in recent years. However, the manner in which it
has sought to depict Amitabh Bachchan as some sort of an
'untouchable' is crude, unbecoming and, at the most basic level,
undemocratic.

In selectively refusing to distinguish between 'brand ambassador of
Gujarat Tourism', 'brand ambassador of Gujarat', 'brand ambassador of
Government of Gujarat' and 'brand ambassador of Narendra Modi' -- all
of which mean very different things -- the Congress is simply not
being fair and not fooling anyone.

To be honest, it is unlikely this was a thought-out political
vendetta programme initiated from the very top. It is more probable
that eager-to-please individuals down the line -- beginning with the
craven Chief Minister of Maharashtra and ending with sundry party
spokespersons in Delhi, carried away by their rhetoric -- created a
controversy that then went out of hand.

However, while defending Amitabh Bachchan's rights in this case, it
is difficult to completely embrace him. Frankly, his argument that he
is an apolitical actor who has not been involved in politics since he
resigned his seat in the Lok Sabha in 1987 is a little thin. While
being brand ambassador of Gujarat Tourism and Kerala Tourism does not
amount to support for the BJP and the CPI(M), he has a history in
Uttar Pradesh. When the Samajwadi Party was in power in Lucknow,
Amitabh Bachchan appeared for it on various platforms, especially in
a series of pre-election television advertisements. This was clearly
political brand promotion and not just lending his name to his
ancestral State.

That aside, the manner in which he undertook a tax-exemption road-
show -- from Gujarat to West Bengal and every State in between --
after the release of Paa did leave some of his old fans
uncomfortable. In a matter of days, he used his blog to praise Mr
Modi, speak of his visit to the dying Jyoti Basu's hospital, acclaim
the Thackerays as old friends, the list just went on. It was a trifle
clumsy and somehow reminiscent of the prototypical crony-capitalist
industrialist who goes to Delhi and praises the Congress's 'inclusive
growth', travels to Kolkata and praises the CPI(M)'s 'social
democracy' and then shows up in Gandhinagar and praises the BJP's
'robust, free-market nationalism'.

Amitabh Bachchan is one of India's greatest actors. Surely he has
more to contribute to public discourse than providing free
advertising space on his blog to a series of politicians, across
party lines, and seeking favours in return? Indeed, can anyone, least
of all the BJP, rule out a rapprochement between the Bachchans and
the Nehru-Gandhis when it is mutually convenient? It is this
inconsistency that makes India's once-and-forever superstar just such
a slippery character. It's quite tragic.

http://dailypioneer.com/246550/Defend-AB-don%E2%80%99t-embrace-him.html

More at:
http://www.dailypioneer.com

Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
Om Shanti

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2010-04-09 14:58:18 UTC
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Monkey is Your Uncle: Sid Harth
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Fossil Skeletons May Be Human Ancestor
LiveScience.com

Handout photo shows a cranium forming part of the holotype skeleton of
Australopithecus sediba from the Malapa site in South Africa Reuters –
Handout photo released April 8, 2010 shows a cranium forming part of
the holotype skeleton of Australopithecus …

* Dinosaurs and Fossils Slideshow:Dinosaurs and Fossils

Charles Q. Choi
LiveScience Contributor
LiveScience.com charles Q. Choi
livescience Contributor
livescience.com – Thu Apr 8, 10:10 am ET

A newfound ancient relative of humanity discovered in a cave in Africa
is a strong candidate for the immediate ancestor to the human lineage,
an international team of scientists said today.

The remarkably well-preserved skeletons - a juvenile male and an adult
female that lived nearly 2 million years ago - were found near the
surface in the remains of a deeply eroded limestone cave system.

Scientists don't know how they died, but it's possible they fell into
the cave.

The hominids had longer arms than we do, and smaller brains. But their
faces were human-like, and scientists say the discovery represents an
important look into our pre-human past. Researchers stopped short of
calling the new species, dubbed Australopithecus sediba, a missing
link.
http://www.livescience.com/culture/091030-origins-top10-special.html

Click image to see more fossil photos
AP

Australopithecus means 'southern ape.' Sediba means "natural spring,
fountain or wellspring in Sotho, one of the 11 official languages of
South Africa," said researcher Lee Berger, a paleoanthropologist at
the University of Witwatersrand in South Africa. This was "deemed an
appropriate name for a species that might be the point from which the
genus Homo arises," Berger said.

Rich fossil site

The partial skeletons were found near Johannesburg at a site called
Malapa, which means "homestead" in Sotho, in an area named the Cradle
of Humankind.
Loading Image...&cap=The+cranium+of+the+newly+identified+species%2C+Australopithecus+sediba%2C+was+found+at+the+Malapa+site%2C+South+Africa.+Credit%3A+Photo+by+Brett+Eloff+courtesy+of+Lee+Berger+and+the+University+of+the+Witwatersrand.&title=

"This is one of the richest fossil sites in Africa," said researcher
Daniel Farber, an earth scientist at the University of California at
Santa Cruz. Nearly a third of the entire evidence for human origins in
Africa come from just a few sites in this region.

The sex of the fossils was determined from the shape of the jaws and
hips, while analysis of the teeth suggest the young male was about 12
years old and the adult female in her late 20s or early 30s. Since
these specimens apparently died at or about the same time as each
other - anytime from hours to weeks apart - the researchers suggest
they would almost certainly have known each other in life and may very
well have been related.

Both stood upright a little more than 4 feet high (1.2 meters). "The
female probably weighed about 33 kilograms (72 lbs.) and the child
about 27 kilograms (59 lbs.) at the time of his death," Berger noted.
The male was "right on the cusp of adulthood."

In many ways, the skeleton appears to be a mishmash of features, with
some resembling members of the human family tree and others more like
those of earlier ape-like hominids. (A hominid includes humans,
chimpanzees, gorillas and their extinct ancestors, while hominins
include those species after the human lineage split from that of
chimpanzees.)

For instance, "the brain size of the juvenile was between 420 and 450
cubic centimeters, which is small when compared to the human brain of
about 1,200 to 1,600 cubic centimeters," Berger said. "It would look
almost like a pinhead."
http://www.livescience.com/history/091113-origins-evolving.html

Still, "the shape of the brain seems to be more advanced than that of
australopithecines," Berger noted. Indeed, a number of skull features,
such as certain wide, broad lines in the bone, "are ones you tend to
attribute to early members of genus Homo," Berger told LiveScience -
that is to say, our lineage.

Human-like faces

A number of facial and dental features resemble those of early human
species, such as small teeth and a projecting nose. At the same time,
"it had very long forearms - in fact, as long as an orangutans,"
Berger said, similar to other members of the genus Australopithecus.
Its fingers were curved, ideal for climbing trees, yet relatively
short, like in humans.
http://www.livescience.com/history/091026-top10-origins-mysteries.html

Its legs were relatively long and the ankles seem to be intermediate
between modern humans and earlier hominids. Critically, its pelvis and
hip were more advanced than other australopithecines, approaching the
hip structure of the extinct human species Homo erectus.
http://www.livescience.com/culture/091030-origins-top10-special.html

This indicates that A. sediba was able to walk upright in a striding
manner.

Despite the differences in sex, the male and female skeletons
physically resembled each other, something they seem to have had in
common with the human family tree but not with more distant relatives,
such as chimpanzees. This could mean that A. sediba leaned toward
social behavior "where you don't necessarily have a dominant alpha
male and you are lowering violence between males who are probably
working more cooperatively in a group," Berger suggested.

Time machine

A combination of dating techniques determined the rocks encasing the
fossils are 1.95 million to 1.78 million years old.

"This fits in a critical moment in time," Berger explained. The human
lineage is thought to have originated between 1.8 million to 2 million
years ago, but the hominid fossils unearthed so far from that period
have proven remarkably poor, giving scientists a great deal of room
for speculation as to how our family tree evolved.
http://www.livescience.com/history/091026-top10-origins-mysteries.html

Due to A. sediba's age and physical traits, the researchers believe it
is a convincing candidate for the immediate ancestor to the genus
Homo. Based on its physique, they suggest its appearance signified the
dawn of more energy-efficient forms of walking and running.

Many scientists believe the human genus Homo evolved from
Australopithecus a little more than 2 million years ago, but that
possibility has been widely debated, with other experts proposing an
evolution from the genus Kenyanthropus. This new species might help
clear up that controversy.

"These fossils give us an extraordinarily detailed look into a new
chapter of human evolution, and provide a window into a critical
period when hominids made the committed change from dependency on life
in the trees to life on the ground," Berger said. "Australopithecus
sediba appears to present a mosaic of features demonstrating an animal
comfortable in both worlds."
http://www.livescience.com/history/091102-human-origins-start.html

Not a missing link

Based on its age and overall details of its body, researchers
suggested A. sediba descended from Australopithecus africanus, which
lived between 2 million and 3 million years ago and seemed to have
eaten mostly soft foods like fleshy fruits, young leaves and perhaps
some meat. This new species appears more similar to humans than do
Australopithecus afarensis, most famed for Lucy, or Australopithecus
garhi, which was discovered in 1996.
http://www.livescience.com/history/070717_lucy_link.html

"We are perhaps at the beginning of a more coherent view of the
diversity of the earliest South African hominids," said
paleoanthropologist Ian Tattersall at the American Museum of Natural
History in New York, who did not take part in this research. These
specimens provide "a better position to perceive the larger
evolutionary patterns among hominids in a critical part of the
timeframe."

As intriguing as the new fossil is, "it's not everything the rumor
mill said it was going to be," said paleoanthropologist John Hawks at
the University of Wisconsin at Madison. "It's not a missing link."
http://www.livescience.com/health/top10_missinglinks.html

One of the biggest mysteries in human evolution is when the human
genus Homo arose.

"What sets us apart most from the australopithecines is the size of
our brain," Hawks said. With this new fossil, "while it has a somewhat
Homo-like face, it doesn't have a Homo-like brain - it's smaller than
the average for the earlier [Australopithecus] africanus."

"Maybe these findings suggest we look to South Africa for a possible
origin for Homo, but there's not a smoking gun here," Hawks added.
Intriguing fossils have also emerged in East Africa, and even Asia,
and much remains unknown when it comes to Central Africa and West
Africa. All these clues raise the question of which species were our
ancestors and which just evolved similar traits in a parallel manner.
"We just need to find more skulls," he noted.

Regardless of whether they are a side-branch removed from humanity or
whether they are our ancestors, these new hominids are "a time
machine," Berger said, a window into the evolutionary pressures and
processes during that crucial period when the human lineage arose.

Setting the scene

The sedimentary and geological setting the skeletons were found in
suggests the two hominids died about the same time, shortly before a
mud flow carried them to where they were buried.

"We think the environment [Australopithecus] sediba lived in was, in
many ways, similar to the environment today," said researcher Paul
Dirks, a geologist at James Cook University in Australia. "For
example, one with predominantly grassy plains, transected by more
vegetated, wooded valleys. However, the rivers flowed in different
directions and the landscape was not static, but changed all the
time."

The hominids were found along with at least 25 other species of
animals, including saber-tooth cats, hyenas, a wild dog, a wildcat, a
horse, a species of antelope known as a kudu, and smaller animals such
as mice and rabbits. The fact that the hominid fossils were intact and
well-preserved suggests they were trapped in the cave beyond the reach
of scavengers that could have scattered their skeletons.

All these fossils were preserved in a hard, concrete-like substance
known as calcified clastic sediment that formed at the bottom of what
appears to be a shallow underground lake or pool.

"We believe the cave originally was deep and only accessible through
vertical entranceways, which made it hard for animals to escape once
they became trapped," Farber said.

Cause of death?

The cave would have likely once been some 100 to 150 feet deep (30 to
45 meters). "We are looking at very eroded and denuded portions of
this cave system, where nature has exposed what had once been the deep
reaches," Farber said.

The cave might have acted as a death trap for animals seeking water.

"We would speculate that perhaps at the time of their death, the area
in which [Australopithecus] sediba lived experienced a severe
drought," Dirks said. "Animals may have smelled the water, ventured in
too deep, fallen down hidden shafts in the pitch dark, or got lost and
died."

Although researchers can only speculate on how these hominids died,
Farber speculated that they probably fell into the cave. "Even now,
there are places where you can fall into unexpected cracks in this
landscape," he said.

A deeper understanding of the environment these hominids lived in
could yield critical insights into their evolution. For instance, was
there anything about their surroundings that might have driven them to
stand upright?

"Those were the original questions that we will continue to look at as
part of the broader study," Farber said. The scientists will detail
their findings in the April 9 issue of the journal Science.

A child's discovery

The scientists began the research that uncovered A. sediba in March of
2008, when Berger and Dirks started mapping the roughly 130 caves and
20 fossil sites identified in the region over the past several
decades. By July that year, the 3-D capabilities of Google Earth then
allowed Berger to identify nearly 500 new caves from satellite images,
which further research discovered included more than 25 fossil sites
previously unknown to science.

"It is a powerful, powerful tool for science," Berger said of Google
Earth. "I happen to know paleontologists around Africa who are using
that tool to hunt for fossils."

In late July 2008, using Google Earth, Berger noted a series of caves
running along a fault that pointed to a blank area in the region, an
area that appeared to have clusters of trees that typically marked
cave deposits. On August 1 that year, when Dirks was dropped off with
his dog Tau to map the caves, he almost immediately discovered a rich
new fossil site.
Loading Image...&cap=A+view+of+the+uitkomst+cave%2C+a+well-known+archaeological+site+close+to+the+sediba+site.+It%0D+illustrates+the+broken%2C+diverse+nature+of+the+landscape.+Credit%3A+Paul+Dirks&title=

Two weeks after that, Berger explored this fossil site with his nine-
year-old son Matthew and his postdoctoral student Job Kibii.

"Matthew ran off the site, about 15 meters (50 feet) off-site, and
within about a minute-and-a-half, he said, 'Dad, I found a fossil,"
Berger said. "I thought it would be an antelope fossil, because that's
usually all we find, but as I walked toward him, I found he found a
hominid clavicle (collarbone) sticking out of the rock." That bone was
the first remains found of A. sediba - the collarbone of the juvenile.

Fossil preparators have worked arduously over the last two years to
extract the rest of the bones from the rock. In celebration of this
find, the children of South Africa have been invited to a competition
to decide what the name for the juvenile skeleton will be.

The future of the past

In the meantime, the researchers said there are at least two other
skeletons emerging from the site. He also refused to confirm or deny
whether they might have found any tools these hominids might have left
behind.

"The presence of tools is something that would have enormous
ramifications, obviously," Berger said. "We're treading carefully in
that area."

The skulls from the fossils they have retrieved so far are well-
preserved enough to reconstruct their faces, Berger noted.

"Sometime in the future, we will look into the face of sediba," he
said.

The researchers might even be able to retrieve DNA or proteins from
the site.

"We are seeing some organics preserved in various parts of the
assemblage," Berger noted.

* Top 10 Mysteries of the First Humans
http://www.livescience.com/history/091026-top10-origins-mysteries.html
* Humans Still Evolving as Our Brains Shrink
http://www.livescience.com/history/091113-origins-evolving.html
* Top 10 Things That Make Humans Special
http://www.livescience.com/culture/091030-origins-top10-special.html

* Original Story: Fossil Skeletons May Be Human Ancestor
http://www.livescience.com/history/new-hominid-human-ancestor-100408.html

LiveScience.com chronicles the daily advances and innovations made in
science and technology. We take on the misconceptions that often pop
up around scientific discoveries and deliver short, provocative
explanations with a certain wit and style. Check out our science
videos, Trivia & Quizzes and Top 10s. Join our community to debate hot-
button issues like stem cells, climate change and evolution. You can
also sign up for free newsletters, register for RSS feeds and get cool
gadgets at the LiveScience Store.
Related Searches:

* australopithecus garhi http://news.search.yahoo.com/news/search?p=australopithecus+garhi
* australopithecus africanus http://news.search.yahoo.com/news/search?p=australopithecus+africanus
* australopithecus afarensis http://news.search.yahoo.com/news/search?p=australopithecus+afarensis
* cradle of humankind http://news.search.yahoo.com/news/search?p=cradle+of+humankind
* google earth http://news.search.yahoo.com/news/search?p=google+earth


2,035 Comments
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Lee J
575 users liked this comment
933 users disliked this comment
Lee J 21 hours ago

IMPOSSIBLE!!!! Earth is only 6,000 years old. Satan put
those bones there to confuse us or God did to test us. I can't
remember which one is right.
Well now that being said we can move on to more comments
about this story.

Replies (181)
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Infidel
692 users liked this comment
809 users disliked this comment
Infidel 21 hours ago

A nine-year old CHILD found the first of these important
fossils! Fantastic! At least he won't grow up to be deluded by the
bible-believers "young earth" myth. Too bad so many American children
are brainwashed with bible-thumping nonsense, and that with
conservative control over science textbooks, many more WILL be.

Replies (117)
*
Bullwinkle
176 users liked this comment
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Bullwinkle 21 hours ago

Maybe they fell from the moon.

Replies (15)
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Tony
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Tony 21 hours ago Report Abuse

oh the brain was smaller then the average brain of the ape a
million years before it how does where's the logic lol

Replies (14)
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Christian
218 users liked this comment
57 users disliked this comment
Christian 19 hours ago Report Abuse

wow very interesting

Replies (3)
*
Daniela
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Daniela 19 hours ago Report Abuse

wow are you serious it could be and ancestor for an ape not
humans!

Replies (17)
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Jerk
481 users liked this comment
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Jerk 19 hours ago Report Abuse

So if we evolved from apes, why are there still apes?
There's also multiple species of fish... am I supposed to believe
there was 1 original fish and all the others evolved?

Replies (98)
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John
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John 19 hours ago Report Abuse

Interesting, but I don't buy it. In every species, when one
species evolves into another species, the previous one disappears. So,
if we evolved from monkeys and apes, why are there still monkeys and
apes? It takes more faith to believe in evolution than it does to
believe in creation.

Replies (88)
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Steve
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Steve 19 hours ago Report Abuse

That's Great....

Replies (7)
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Edward
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Edward 19 hours ago

It is interesting how the evolutionist continue to insist
man evolved from apes and the earth is billions years old. There are
still no intermediate transitional forms. There is natural selection
and adaptation but no macroevolution. Dogs still beget dogs and cats
still beget cats even though there are different varieties within the
kind.
These scientist have rejected the truth about the Creator
and have chosen to believe in fary tales for grown ups. The key to
true scientific understanding is believe in a recent creation and a
global cataclysmic flood in the days of Noah which would explain most
of the fossil record.
These evolutionist just can't exept the idea that they will
have to answer to the Creator one day for their sin. Jesus himself
attested to the historical accuracy of the Genesis record. I would
rather believe God's Son than athiests with an agenda.

Replies (48)

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Priscilla
5 users liked this
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Priscilla 19 hours ago Report Abuse

damn dats crazy!!! team kaname!!

Comment hidden due to low rating. Show Comment
Replies (2)
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Himitsu
106 users liked this comment
34 users disliked this comment
Himitsu 19 hours ago

cool cool cool! I love when they find new stuff! I'm
excited. Kinda makes me want to be an archeologist...

Replies (2)
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Daniel
3 users liked this commentThumbs UpThumbs Down44 users disliked
this comment
Daniel 19 hours ago

Ho Hum

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Reply
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High
53 users liked this comment
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High 19 hours ago

Peole read your bible !!!
It say that earth had man and likeman !!!
Eva think bones are from like-man !!!

Replies (12)
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sam
108 users liked this comment
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sam 19 hours ago

lets continue with the discovery of who we are. that is
amazing that we are able to, soon, prove who we are. i hope that child
understands the discovery they made. hopefully we can soon let our
children THINK for themselves an not be forced to belive in a figment
of a 2000 year old mans imagination. why would we want our future in
the hands of people who belive in a tribal view of creation, when
evolution has proved it self true.why should our leaders be people who
wont belive in the realitys of the facts. lets hope that we find the
rest of our past an can soon see the true evolution of man.

Replies (12)
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wrxacd
98 users liked this comment
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wrxacd 19 hours ago

I just want to make people, who don't already know, aware.
The dates they come up with are not accurate the dating techniques
used to come up with these numbers are VERY inaccurate beyond a few
thousand years. So how can they know it was "2 million years" ago? And
what really bugs me about these articles is how the author tries to
present all the information as "fact" when it is based on theory. The
old saying "Don't believe everything you see on TV" would apply
nowadays. DON"T BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU READ ON THE INTERNET.

Replies (8)
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..::Beautiful::..
139 users liked this comment
175 users disliked this comment
..::Beautiful::.. 19 hours ago Report Abuse

FInally! Actual PROOF is coming out. What kind of "proofs"
does the theory of God have?

Replies (47)
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Joey
118 users liked this comment
162 users disliked this comment
Joey 19 hours ago

HAHAHAHAHAHA there is so little evidence for evolution every
new find lends us some supposed new clue. These losers just dont want
to admit there is a God. This is honestly to funny.

Replies (11)
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Eric
97 users liked this comment
89 users disliked this comment
Eric 19 hours ago

In about a year, a very small article will appear(not on the
front page of Yahoo), stating that this hominid is not an ancestor of
us. Happens every time. And there are some of us who believe that the
universe is about 15 billion years old, and the earth is about 4
billion years old...Old Earth Creationists. Not to mention there are
Thiestic Evolutionists. So don't let that stop you from loving and
serving Jesus.

Replies (7)
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AustinR
50 users liked this comment
107 users disliked this comment
AustinR 19 hours ago

Small brain and in Africa. Really, do I need to go there?

Replies (7)

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JeremyJ
88 users liked this comment
101 users disliked this comment
JeremyJ 19 hours ago

I agree completely, If we all evolved from apes, why are
there still apes? Same applies to fish, etc... People who believe in
evolution are looking for a way to fill the gap that not believing in
God creates in their lives.

Replies (6)
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Rev Mike
47 users liked this comment
17 users disliked this comment
Rev Mike 19 hours ago

Of course there is only one type of human left! We ate all
the others! LOL Hope they find more and I hope we get to read about
it!!

Replies (1)
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ONE TIME
47 users liked this comment
46 users disliked this comment
ONE TIME 19 hours ago

First, we find something and title it "May be a human
ancestor." Step two, say that it is and get it published in a school
text book. Step 3, after some 25 years we learn that it wasn't what we
thought it was and keep publishing that textbook as if it is true. ...

Replies (4)
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jake
93 users liked this comment
134 users disliked this comment
jake 19 hours ago

Wow, people still believe in evolution? Religion has more
facts this this crap.

Replies (13)
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Charles Webb
87 users liked this comment
101 users disliked this comment
Charles Webb 19 hours ago

Ancestors? Really!!? Its an Ape or monkey Specie that`s it.
We were created. We didnt evolve. Scientists will be looking for the
missing link for eternity,because it doesnt exist.

Replies (4)
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Shay
86 users liked this comment
108 users disliked this comment
Shay 19 hours ago

How do you know its that old? The answer is you don't. It is
wrong to say something is that old when you have no idea. And as for
this "missing link" you will never find it. God created the world. Its
as simple as that. We did not evolve from a monkey.

Replies (7)
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Shaun S
49 users liked this comment
109 users disliked this comment
Shaun S 19 hours ago

HAHAHA!!! Stupid atheists... the earth is only 10,000 years
old. There is no "human ancestor", we are now as we have always been!

Replies (8)
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Mat
56 users liked this comment
25 users disliked this comment
Mat 19 hours ago

This is not the forum for a religious debate; feel free to
blog or chat elsewhere if you have theological issues on this.
It really is amazing that a child made such a find; or is
it? Children do tend to dig, quite a bit. The surprising part may be
that the child notified the correct people without continuing to dig
and causing serious damage to the discovery.

Replies (5)
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Mark
74 users liked this comment
25 users disliked this comment
Mark 19 hours ago

when one species evolves into a new species it does not
automatically mean the elimination fo the old species.....I don't mind
a person choosing the bible over science but I find it troubling how
many anti-evolutionists clearly don't understand the theory in the
slightest

Replies (7)
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Stephen K
7 users liked this comment
19 users disliked this comment
Stephen K 19 hours ago

HAHAHA.... @ Lee

Surely you don't believe that nonsense, right? lol

#
Lee J
4 users liked this comment
9 users disliked this comment
Lee J 19 hours ago

Tig....Tig........Tig Chill out.......Don't you know sarcasm when
you read it?

Replies (1)
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steph8208
17 users liked this comment
53 users disliked this comment
steph8208 19 hours ago

Dont Buy into it folks! Either is A.) a species that has went
extinct B) deformed animal we already have as a species or C) a
"deformed" human. This is hilarious!

Replies (3)
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Ruth
45 users liked this comment
68 users disliked this comment
Ruth 19 hours ago

Ya'll are a mess.. Its just a species in the monkey family..
Humans did not evolve from apes.. smh

Replies (4)
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Michael
50 users liked this comment
97 users disliked this comment
Michael 19 hours ago

The earth is only 6000 years old. About 4500 years ago there was a
catastrophic global flood, which changed things quite a bit. However,
there are no "human ancestors". Humans, and all animals originated at
the same time........the sixth day.

Replies (10)
#
__A_YAHOO_USER__
60 users liked this comment
47 users disliked this comment
__A_YAHOO_USER__ 19 hours ago

how would it take more faith to believe in evolution that is
backed by tangable facts, than it would to believe in creation that is
backed only by man written books, stories, and flintstones cartoons?

Replies (7)
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Paul
54 users liked this comment
82 users disliked this comment
Paul 19 hours ago

God has complete control over everything including time, you
should read "The Science of God: The Convergence of Scientific and
Biblical Wisdom," Gerald L. Schroeder, I'm frankly tired of atheistic
comments against Christians, our founding fathers were Christian and
the reason this country is going down is because of people like you
that have no concept of sin. So instead of attacking me back, go read
something Mr. and Mrs. scientist.

Replies (6)
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Justin
73 users liked this comment
64 users disliked this comment
Justin 19 hours ago

I swear to god (haha a pun), you religious people are all idiots
in denial. The Earth is certainly more than a measly 10,000 years old.
Heck that was the last ice age! Life began on this planet 4 BILLION
years ago. Finally more proof of evolution. Science. Facts. Take that
in your little "belief system". We have facts, you have random ideas.

Replies (13)
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dennis
49 users liked this comment
80 users disliked this comment
dennis 19 hours ago

Here is a thought... Jesus Christ died for ALL OF US, AND ALL OF
OUR SINS, this skeleton may be an extinct species but NOT a human
ancestor. I firmly believe in the Bible, that being said, we
Christians NEED TO LOVE THOSE WHO DON'T BELIEVE; NOT ATTACK THEM!
Evolution is WRONG, ---IF WE ARE DESCENDANTS OF APES THEN SCIENCE
WOULD BE ABLE TO MIX HUMAN EGGS WITH PRIMATE SPERM OR VICE VERSA
PRODUCING OFFSPRING. THEY HAVE BEEN UNABLE TO DO SUCH A THING.----
Horses and donkeys produce (sterile) mules.... therefore (IF)
evolution was right and it is NOT, but if it was then there should be
an offspring which would be produced via the same technique... We are
to tell the world about Jesus, not attack the Lost or belittle them.
you will win the lost with love not hate or anger.

Replies (4)
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Christian
53 users liked this comment
15 users disliked this comment
Christian 19 hours ago

I find it funny how these sort of articles always result in
religious lashing out.

Replies (3)
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Chris
36 users liked this comment
67 users disliked this comment
Chris 19 hours ago

It is a FACT that Darwin himself changed and believed in Creation
not Evolution before he died!

Replies (12)

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KB
3 users liked this comment
18 users disliked this comment
KB 19 hours ago Report Abuse

Poor stupid Lee J. Severe head injury... or just born
retarded?? Geez...

Comment hidden due to low rating. Show Comment

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Marko
31 users liked this comment
62 users disliked this comment
Marko 19 hours ago

I'm sure it was the first Democrats. You can tell by the
small brain.

Replies (5)
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Tom
13 users liked this comment
39 users disliked this comment
Tom 19 hours ago

Wow, Cool, another shape of a human skull...you know we all
are so much the same now. Have a little faith you amiba's Genesis
explains it all, Faith baby Faith!

Replies (2)
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John
17 users liked this comment
31 users disliked this comment
John 19 hours ago

God made these creatures and they must be however remotely
related to our first parents. We will not gain more understanding
beyond the literal details of the Genesis creation accounts by hurling
insults at each other.

Reply
*
Gray
65 users liked this comment
33 users disliked this comment
Gray 19 hours ago

These religious people are really starting to piss me off.
Religion is fine and all I don't care if you are. Quit trying to
sholve it down peoples throats. It makes you looks ignorant.

Replies (7)
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JimmyJam
84 users liked this comment
7 users disliked this comment
JimmyJam 19 hours ago

Judging by some of these comments, it's obvious that the
human brain is shrinking once again.

Replies (4)
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Loratta
26 users liked this comment
6 users disliked this comment
Loratta 19 hours ago

i think this is an extrodinary find maybe one day with
discoverys like this we can put the debate of whether we discended
from apes or created by god can be put to rest

Replies (4)
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Michael
15 users liked this comment
53 users disliked this comment
Michael 19 hours ago

The earth is only 6000 years old. About 4500 years ago there
was a catastrophic global flood, which changed things quite a bit.
However, there are no "human ancestors". Humans, and all animals
originated at the same time........the sixth day.

Replies (3)
*
NathanA
34 users liked this comment
18 users disliked this comment
NathanA 19 hours ago

One can be a believer and believe in evolution as well. The
concepts are not mutually exclusive.

Replies (3)
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Gonzo
4 users liked this comment
13 users disliked this comment
Gonzo 19 hours ago

if this is all so then what explains ghost and spirits....
life is so crasy confuseing

Replies (1)

You get the picture...

http://www.yahoo.com/

Dr Jai Maharaj is a sad Monkey: Sid Harth
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.indian/browse_thread/thread/778f6f077f33363b/bf1af43c5f2c24fa?lnk=raot&pli=1

http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.israel/browse_thread/thread/2a7b84b9940d1864/7276fbf3c038c71a

http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.indian/browse_thread/thread/810eae7dd0a55571/ee6b788475fa44af

http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.indian/browse_thread/thread/7ce3947b534c5d63/d70e3db80706f37d?lnk=raot

http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.tamil/browse_thread/thread/247bd29586f7f644/9d920ed0072ebc40?lnk=raot

http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.indian/browse_thread/thread/225275f1598211de/1eb58550dc54dfe0?lnk=raot

http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.indian/browse_thread/thread/778f6f077f33363b/bf1af43c5f2c24fa?lnk=raot

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.hindu/browse_thread/thread/da3a6e4c4367f926/a8ebfabb2e2bd89c?lnk=raot

http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.indian/browse_thread/thread/ff0d5c07bce194a4/4a3a85d6b01ff0de?lnk=raot

http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.indian/browse_thread/thread/070377124780253f/eb5cb68f6f5d95c4?lnk=raot

http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.indian/browse_thread/thread/08df194b8028f056/726155efe01de093?lnk=raot

http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.pakistan/browse_thread/thread/7ca9fb7c30186852/7a4794bed7c19229?q

http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.indian/browse_thread/thread/c8fac48ff8f68539/b07427a248acc87b?lnk=raot

http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.indian/browse_thread/thread/1b923810061bf980/ec5a3833de1d1a0c?lnk=raot

http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.indian.karnataka/browse_thread/thread/7f3d6d9fcdffee77?tvc=2

http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.indian/browse_thread/thread/cf1d2b8f33c67ac3/ef9fe7cd6a6a71b8?lnk=raot

http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.indian/msg/d407520db5c5719f

...and I am Sid Harth
SuryaArya
2010-04-09 19:17:38 UTC
Permalink
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navanavonmilita
2010-04-10 16:23:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by SuryaArya
http://www.angelfire.com/oh/Monkeys2/images/NGMonkey.jpg
Not Required Indian, NRI: Sid Harth

Romani people
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For other uses, see Romani. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani
Romani people
Rromane dźene
Romani flag proposed by the 1971 World Romani Congress

(left to right):

Grigoraş Dinicu, Drafi Deutscher, Charles Chaplin, Isabel Pantoja,
Ricardo Quaresma, Ceija Stojka, Džej Ramadanovski, Irini Merkouri

Total population

Up to 5 million in the world[1]
or
6-11 million in the world[2]

See Romani people by country for the entire list of countries and
other estimations.
The following list uses official data, the unofficial estmation might
differ substantially.

Regions with significant populations

Spain 650,000
(1.62%) [3]
Romania 535,140
(2.46%) [4]
Turkey 500,000
(0.72%) [5]
France 500,000
(0.79%) [6]
Bulgaria 370,908
(4.67%) [7]
Hungary 205,720
(2.02%) [8]
Greece 200,000
(1.82%) [9]
Russia 182,766
(0.13%) [10]
Italy 130,000
(0.22%) [11]
Serbia 108,193
(1.44%) [12]
Slovakia 89,920
(1.71%) [13]
Germany 70,000
(0.09%) [14]
R. Macedonia 53,879
(2.85%) [15]

Languages

Romani, languages of native region

Religion

Christianity
(Orthodoxy, Catholicism, Protestantism),
Islam,
Shaktism[16]

Related ethnic groups

Dom people, Lom people, other Indo-Aryans

The Romani (also Romany, Romanies, Romanis, Roma or Roms; exonym:
Gypsies; Romani: Romane or Rromane, depending on the dialect) are an
ethnic group living mostly in Europe, who trace their origins to
medieval India.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_kingdoms_of_India

The Romani are widely dispersed with their largest concentrated
populations in Europe, especially the Roma of Central and Eastern
Europe and Anatolia, followed by the Iberian Kale in Southwestern
Europe and Southern France, with more recent diaspora populations in
the Americas and, to a lesser extent, in other parts of the world.

Their Romani language is divided into several dialects, which add up
to an estimated number of speakers larger than two million.[17] The
total number of Romani people is at least twice as large (several
times as large according to high estimates), and many Romani are
native speakers of the language current in their country of residence,
or of mixed languages combining the two.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_language

Terminology

Main article: Names of the Romani people
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_the_Romani_people

Distribution of the Romanies in Europe based on self-designation.Rom,
Romani
Romani usage

In the Romani language, rom is a masculine noun, meaning "man,
husband", with the plural roma. Romani is the feminine adjective,
while romano is the masculine adjective. Some Romanies use Rom / Roma
as an ethnic name, while others (such as the Sinti, or the Romanichal)
do not use this term as a self-ascription for the entire ethnic group.
[18]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinti

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanichal

Sometimes, rom and romani are spelled with a double r, i.e., rrom and
rromani. In this case rr is used to represent the phoneme /ʀ/ (also
written as ř and rh), which in some Romani dialects has remained
different from the one written with a single r. The rr spelling is
common particularly in Romania, in order to distinguish from the
endonym for Romanians (sg. român, pl. români).[19]

English usage

In the English language (according to OED), Rom is a noun (with the
plural Roma or Roms) and an adjective, while Romani (Romany) is also a
noun (with the plural Romanies or Romanis) and an adjective. Both Rom
and Romani have been in use in English since the 19th century as an
alternative for Gypsy. Romani was initially spelled Rommany, then
Romany, while today the Romani spelling is the most popular spelling.
Occasionally, the double r spelling (e.g., Rroma, Rromani) mentioned
above is also encountered in English texts.

Although Roma is used as a designation for the branch of the Romani
people with historic concentrations in Eastern Europe and the Balkans,
it is increasingly encountered during recent decades[20][21] as a
generic term for the Romani people as a whole.[22]

Because all Romanies use the word Romani as an adjective, the term
began to be used as a noun for the entire ethnic group.[23]

Today, the term Romani is used by most organizations—including the
United Nations, the Council of Europe, and the US Library of Congress.
[19]

The standard assumption is that the demonyms of the Romani people, Lom
and Dom share the same origin.[24][25]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lom_people

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dom_people

Gypsy

Further information: Gypsy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gypsy

The English term Gypsy (or Gipsy) originates from the Greek word
Αιγύπτοι (Aigyptoi, whence modern Greek γύφτοι gifti), in the
erroneous belief that the Romanies originated in Egypt, and were
exiled as punishment for allegedly harboring the infant Jesus.[26]
This exonym is sometimes written with capital letter, to show that it
designates an ethnic group.[27]

As described in Victor Hugo's novel The Hunchback of Notre Dame, the
medieval French referred to the Romanies as egyptiens. The term has
come to bear pejorative connotations. The word "Gypsy" in English has
become so pervasive that many Romani organizations use it in their own
organizational names.

In North America, the word "Gypsy" is commonly used as a reference to
lifestyle[citation needed] or fashion, and not to the Romani
ethnicity. The Spanish term gitano and the French term gitan may have
the same origin[clarification needed].[28]

Population and subgroups

Main article: Romani populations
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_populations

Distribution of the Romani people in Europe (2007 Council of Europe
"average estimates", totalling 9.8 million)[29]

* The size of the wheel symbols reflects absolute population size
* The gradient reflects the percent in the country's population:
0% 10%.Many Romanies for a variety of
reasons choose not to register their ethnic identity in official
censuses. There are an estimated four million Romani people in Europe
and Asia Minor (as of 2002),[30] although some high estimates by
Romani organizations give numbers as high as 14 million.[31]
Significant Romani populations are found in the Balkan peninsula, in
some Central European states, in Spain, France, Russia, and Ukraine.
Several more million Romanies may live out of Europe, in particular in
the Middle East and in the Americas.

The Romani people recognize divisions among themselves based in part
on territorial, cultural and dialectal differences and self-
designation. The main branches are:[32][33][34][35]

Roma, crystallized in Eastern Europe and Central Italy, emigrated also
(mostly from the 19th century onwards), in the rest of Europe, but
also on the other continents;
Iberian Kale, mostly in Spain (see Romani people in Spain), but also
in Portugal, Southern France and Latin America;
Finnish Kale, in Finland, emigrated also in Sweden;
Welsh Kale, in Wales;
Romanichal, in the United Kingdom, emigrated also to the United States
and Australia;
Sinti, in German-speaking areas of Central Europe and some neighboring
countries;
Manush, in French-speaking areas of Central Europe;
Romanisæl, in Sweden and Norway.

Among Romanies there are further internal differentiations, like
Bashaldé; Churari; Luri; Ungaritza; Lovari (Lovara) from Hungary;
Machvaya (Machavaya, Machwaya, or Macwaia) from Serbia; Romungro
(Modyar or Modgar) from Hungary and neighbouring carpathian countries;
Erlides (also Yerlii or Arli); Xoraxai (Horahane) from Greece/Turkey;
Boyash (Lingurari, Ludar, Ludari, Rudari, or Zlătari) from Romanian
words for various crafts: (Lingurari - spoon makers, Rudari - wood
crafters; Zlătari - goldsmiths); Ursari from Romanian/Moldovan bear-
trainers; Argintari from silversmiths; Aurari from goldsmiths; Florari
from florists; and Lăutari from musicians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luri

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lovari_(Roma)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlax_Romani

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machvaya

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romungro

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xoraxai

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boyash

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ursari

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silversmith

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldsmith

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florist

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C4%83utari

History

Main article: History of the Romani people
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Romani_people

This section requires expansion.

Origins

Main article: Origin of the Romani people
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Romani_people#Origin

Linguistic and genetic evidence indicates the Romanies originated from
the Indian subcontinent, emigrating from India towards the northwest
no earlier than the 11th century. The Romani are generally believed to
have originated in central India, possibly in the modern Indian state
of Rajasthan, migrating to northwest India (the Punjab region) around
250 B.C. In the centuries spent here, there may have been close
interaction with such established groups as the Rajputs and the Jats.
Their subsequent westward migration, possibly in waves, is believed to
have occurred between 500 A.D. and 1000 A.D. Contemporary populations
sometimes suggested as sharing a close relationship to the Romani are
the Dom people of Central Asia and the Banjara of India.[36]

The emigration from India likely took place in the context of the
raids by Mahmud of Ghazni[37] As these soldiers were defeated, they
were moved west with their families into the Byzantine Empire. The
11th century terminus post quem is due to the Romani language showing
unambiguous features of the Modern Indo-Aryan languages,[38]
precluding an emigration during the Middle Indic period.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajasthan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punjab_region

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajputs

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jats

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dom_people

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Asia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banjara

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmud_of_Ghazni

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_Empire

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Indo-Aryan#Modern_dialect_continuum

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_Indic

Genetic evidence supports the medieval migration from India. The
Romanies have been described as "a conglomerate of genetically
isolated founder populations",[39] while a number of common Mendelian
disorders among Romanies from all over Europe indicates "a common
origin and founder effect".[39][40] A study from 2001 by Gresham et
al. suggests "a limited number of related founders, compatible with a
small group of migrants splitting from a distinct caste or tribal
group".[41] The same study found that "a single lineage ... found
across Romani populations, accounts for almost one-third of Romani
males."[41] A 2004 study by Morar et al. concluded that the Romani
population "was founded approximately 32–40 generations ago, with
secondary and tertiary founder events occurring approximately 16–25
generations ago".[42]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mendelian_traits_in_humans

Possible connection with the Jat people

While the South Asian origin of the Romani people has been long
considered a certitude, the exact South Asian group from whom the
Romanies have descended has been a matter of debate. The recent
discovery of the "Jat mutation" that causes a type of glaucoma in
Romani populations suggests that the Romani people are the descendants
of the Jat people found in Northern India and Pakistan.[43]

This contradicted an earlier study that compared the most common
haplotypes found in Romani groups with those found in Jatt Sikhs and
Jats from Haryana and found no matches.[44] The haplogroup H, which is
the most common haplogroup in Romanis is far more prevalent in central
India and south India than it is in northern India, where haplogroup
R1a lineages makes up at least half of male ancestries, and haplogroup
H is rare.

Appearance in Europe

The migration of the Romanies through the Middle East and Northern
Africa to Europe
First arrival of the Romanies outside Berne in the 15th century,
described by the chronicler as getoufte heiden ("baptized heathens")
and drawn with dark skin and wearing Saracen-style clothing and
weapons (Spiezer Schilling, p. 749).
An 1852 Wallachian poster advertising an auction of Romani slaves in
Bucharest.In 1322 CE a Franciscan monk named Symon Semeonis described
people resembling these "atsinganoi" living in Crete and in 1350 CE
Ludolphus of Sudheim mentioned a similar people with a unique language
whom he called Mandapolos, a word which some theorize was possibly
derived from the Greek word mantes (meaning prophet or fortune teller).
[45]

Around 1360, an independent Romani fiefdom (called the Feudum
Acinganorum) was established in Corfu and became "a settled community
and an important and established part of the economy."[46]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symon_Semeonis

By the 14th century, the Romanies had reached the Balkans; by 1424 CE,
Germany; and by the 16th century, Scotland and Sweden. Some Romanies
migrated from Persia through North Africa, reaching the Iberian
Peninsula in the 15th century. The two currents met in France.
Romanies began immigrating to the United States in colonial times,
with small groups in Virginia and French Louisiana. Larger-scale
immigration began in the 1860s, with groups of Romnaichal from
Britain. The largest number immigrated in the early 1900s, mainly from
the Vlax group of Kalderash. Many Romanies also settled in South
America.

When the Romani people arrived in Europe, curiosity was soon followed
by hostility and xenophobia. Romanies were enslaved for five centuries
in Wallachia and Moldavia until abolition in 1856.[47] Elsewhere in
Europe, they were subject to ethnic cleansing, abduction of their
children, and forced labor. In England, there were hangings and
expulsions of the Romani; in France, branding and the shaving of
heads; in Moravia and Bohemia severing of ears of women. As a result,
large groups of the Romani travelled back East, towards Poland, which
was more tolerant, and Russia, where the Romani were also treated less
heavy-handedly, as long as they paid the annual taxes.[48]

Sinti and Roma about to be deported in Germany, May 22, 1940World War
II

Main article: Porajmos
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porajmos

During World War II, the Nazis embarked on systematic attempt at
genocide of the Romanies, known as the Porajmos.[49] They were marked
for extermination and sentenced to forced labor and imprisonment in
concentration camps. They were often killed on sight, especially by
the Einsatzgruppen (essentially mobile killing units) on the Eastern
Front. The total number of victims has been variously estimated at
between 220,000 to 1,500,000; even the lowest number would count as
one of the largest mass murders in history.

Post-1945

In Communist Eastern Europe, Romanies experienced assimilation schemes
and restrictions of cultural freedom.[citation needed] The Romani
language and Romani music were banned from public performance in
Bulgaria.[dubious – discuss] In Czechoslovakia, they were labeled a
"socially degraded stratum,"[citation needed] and Romani women were
sterilized as part of a state policy to reduce their population. This
policy was implemented with large financial incentives, threats of
denying future welfare payments, with misinformation, or after
administering drugs (Silverman 1995; Helsinki Watch 1991). An official
inquiry from the Czech Republic, resulting in a report (December
2005), concluded that the Communist authorities had practiced an
assimilation policy towards Romanies, which "included efforts by
social services to control the birth rate in the Romani community" and
that "the problem of sexual sterilization carried out in the Czech
Republic, either with improper motivation or illegally, exists"[50]
with new revealed cases up until 2004, in both the Czech Republic and
Slovakia.[51]

Society and culture

Main article: Romani society and culture
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_society_and_culture

A Gipsy Family - Facsimile of a woodcut in the "Cosmographie
Universelle" of Munster: in folio, Basle, 1552.The traditional
Romanies place a high value on the extended family. Virginity is
essential in unmarried women. Both men and women often marry young;
there has been controversy in several countries over the Romani
practice of child marriage. Romani law establishes that the man's
family must pay a bride price to the bride's parents, but only
traditional families still follow this rule.

Once married, the woman joins the husband's family, where her main job
is to tend to her husband's and her children's needs, as well as to
take care of her in-laws. The power structure in the traditional
Romani household has at its top the oldest man or grandfather, and men
in general have more authority than women. Women gain respect and
authority as they get older. Young wives begin gaining authority once
they have children.

Romani social behavior is strictly regulated by Hindu purity laws
("marime" or "marhime"), still respected by most Roma (and by most
older generations of Sinti). This regulation affects many aspects of
life, and is applied to actions, people and things: parts of the human
body are considered impure: the genital organs (because they produce
emissions), as well as the rest of the lower body. Fingernails and
toenails must be filed with an emery board, as cutting them with a
clipper is a taboo. Clothes for the lower body, as well as the clothes
of menstruating women, are washed separately. Items used for eating
are also washed in a different place. Childbirth is considered impure,
and must occur outside the dwelling place. The mother is considered
impure for forty days after giving birth. Death is considered impure,
and affects the whole family of the dead, who remain impure for a
period of time. In contrast to the practice of cremating the dead,
Romani dead must be buried.[52] Cremation and burial are both known
from the time of the Rigveda, and both are widely practiced in
Hinduism today (although the tendency for higher caste groups is to
burn, while lower caste groups in South India tend to bury their dead).
[53] Some animals are also considered impure, for instance cats
because they lick themselves.[54]

Religion

Muslim Romanies in Bosnia and Herzegovina (around 1900)Migrant Romani
populations have adopted the dominant religion of their country of
residence, while often preserving aspects of older belief systems and
forms of worship. Most Eastern European Romanies are Roman Catholic or
Orthodox Christian or Muslim. Those in western Europe and the United
States are mostly Roman Catholic or Protestant. In Turkey, Egypt, and
the Balkans, the Romanies are split into Christian and Muslim
populations.

Music

Main article: Romani music
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_music

Young Hungarian Romani performing a traditional danceRomani music
plays an important role in Eastern European countries such as Croatia,
Bosnia and Herzegovina, Serbia, Montenegro, Bulgaria, the Republic of
Macedonia, Albania, Hungary, and Romania, and the style and
performance practices of Romani musicians have influenced European
classical composers such as Franz Liszt and Johannes Brahms. The
lăutari who perform at traditional Romanian weddings are virtually all
Romani. Probably the most internationally prominent contemporary
performers in the lăutari tradition are Taraful Haiducilor. Bulgaria's
popular "wedding music", too, is almost exclusively performed by
Romani musicians such as Ivo Papasov, a virtuoso clarinetist closely
associated with this genre and Bulgarian pop-folk singer Azis. Many
famous classical musicians, such as the Hungarian pianist Georges
Cziffra, are Romani, as are many prominent performers of manele. Zdob
şi Zdub, one of the most prominent rock bands in Moldova, although not
Romanies themselves, draw heavily on Romani music, as do Spitalul de
Urgenţă in Romania, Goran Bregović in Serbia, Darko Rundek in Croatia,
Beirut and Gogol Bordello in the United States.

Another tradition of Romani music is the genre of the Romani brass
band, with such notable practitioners as Boban Marković of Serbia, and
the brass lăutari groups Fanfare Ciocărlia and Fanfare din Cozmesti of
Romania.

The distinctive sound of Romani music has also strongly influenced
bolero, jazz, and flamenco (especially cante jondo) in Europe.
European-style Gypsy jazz ("jazz Manouche" or "Sinti jazz") is still
widely practiced among the original creators (the Romanie People); one
who acknowledged this artistic debt was guitarist Django Reinhardt.
Contemporary artists in this tradition known internationally include
Stochelo Rosenberg, Biréli Lagrène, Jimmy Rosenberg, and Tchavolo
Schmitt.

The Romanies of Turkey have achieved musical acclaim from national and
local audiences. Local performers usually perform for special
holidays. Their music is usually performed on instruments such as the
darbuka and gırnata. A number of nationwide best seller performers are
said to be of Romani origin.[citation needed]

Language

Main article: Romani language
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_language

Most Romanies speak one of several dialects of Romani,[55][not in
citation given] an Indo-Aryan language. They also will often speak the
languages of the countries they live in. Typically, they also
incorporate loanwords and calques into Romani from the languages of
those countries, especially words for terms that the Romani language
does not have. Most of the Ciganos of Portugal, the Gitanos of Spain,
the Romanichal of the UK, and Scandinavian Travellers have lost their
knowledge of pure Romani, and respectively speak the mixed languages
Caló,[56] Angloromany, and Scandoromani.

There are independent groups currently working toward standardizing
the language, including groups in Romania, Serbia, Montenegro, the
USA, and Sweden. Romani is not currently spoken in India.[citation
needed]

Persecutions

Main article: Antiziganism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiziganism

Historical persecution

The first and one of the most enduring persecutions against the Romani
people was the enslaving of the Romanies who arrived on the territory
of the historical Romanian states of Wallachia and Moldavia, which
lasted from the 14th century until the second half of the 19th
century. Legislation decreed that all the Romanies living in these
states, as well as any others who would immigrate there, were slaves.
[57]

The arrival of some branches of the Romani people in Western Europe in
the 15th century was precipitated by the Ottoman conquest of the
Balkans. Although the Romanies themselves were refugees from the
conflicts in southeastern Europe, they were mistaken by the local
population in the West, because of their foreign appearance, as part
of the Ottoman invasion (the German Reichstags at Landau and Freiburg
in 1496-1498 declared the Romanies as spies of the Turks). In Western
Europe, this resulted in a violent history of persecution and attempts
of ethnic cleansing until the modern era. As time passed, other
accusations were added against local Romanies (accusations specific to
this area, against non-assimilated minorities), like that of bringing
the plague, usually sharing their burden together with the local Jews.
[58]

One example of official persecution of the Romani is exemplified by
the The Great Roundup of Spanish Romanies (Gitanos) in 1749. The
Spanish monarchy ordered a nationwide raid that led to separation of
families and placement of all able-bodied men into forced labor camps.

Later in the 19th century, Romani immigration was forbidden on a
racial basis in areas outside Europe, mostly in the English speaking
world (in 1885 the United States outlawed the entry of the Roma) and
also in some South American countries (in 1880 Argentina adopted a
similar policy).[58]

Holocaust

Main article: Porajmos
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porajmos

Romani arrivals at the Belzec death camp await instructions.The
persecution of the Romanies reached a peak during World War II in the
Porajmos, the genocide perpetrated by the Nazis during the Holocaust.
In 1935, the Nuremberg laws stripped the Romani people living in Nazi
Germany of their citizenship, after which they were subjected to
violence, imprisonment in concentration camps and later genocide in
extermination camps. The policy was extended in areas occupied by the
Nazis during the war, and it was also applied by their allies, notably
the Independent State of Croatia, Romania and Hungary.

Because no accurate pre-war census figures exist for the Romanis, it
is impossible to accurately assess the actual number of victims. Ian
Hancock, director of the Program of Romani Studies at The University
of Texas at Austin, proposes a figure of up to a million and a half,
while an estimate of between 220,000 and 500,000 was made by Sybil
Milton, formerly senior historian of the U.S. Holocaust Memorial
Museum.[59] In Central Europe, the extermination in the Protectorate
of Bohemia and Moravia was so thorough that the Bohemian Romani
language became extinct.[citation needed]

Forced assimilation

In the Habsburg Monarchy under Maria Theresia (1740–1780), a series of
decrees tried to force the Romanies to sedentarize, removed rights to
horse and wagon ownership (1754), renamed them as "New Citizens" and
forced Romani boys into military service if they had no trade (1761),
forced them to register with the local authorities (1767), and
prohibited marriage between Romanies (1773). Her successor Josef II
prohibited the wearing of traditional Romani clothing and the use of
the Romani language, punishable by flogging.[60]

In Spain, attempts to assimilate the Gitanos were under way as early
as 1619, when Gitanos were forcibly sedentarized, the use of the
Romani language was prohibited, Gitano men and women were sent to
separate workhouses and their children sent to orphanages. Similar
prohibitions took place in 1783 under King Charles III, who prohibited
the nomadic lifestyle, the use of the Calo language, Romani clothing,
their trade in horses and other itinerant trades. The use of the word
gitano was also forbidden to further assimilation. Ultimately these
measures failed, as the rest of the population rejected the
integration of the Gitanos.[60][61]

Other examples of forced assimilation include Norway, where a law was
passed in 1896 permitting the state to remove children from their
parents and place them in state institutions.[62] This resulted in
some 1,500 Romani children being taken from their parents in the 20th
century.[63]

Contemporary issues

Main article: Modern Antiziganism

Amnesty International reports continued instances of Antizigan
discrimination during the 2000s, particularly in Bulgaria, Romania,
Slovakia,[64] Hungary,[65] Slovenia,[66] and Kosovo.[67]

Czechoslovakia carried out a policy of sterilization of Romani women,
starting in 1973.[68] The dissidents of the Charter 77 denounced it in
1977-78 as a "genocide", but the practice continued through the Velvet
Revolution of 1989.[69] A 2005 report by the Czech government's
independent ombudsman, Otakar Motejl, identified dozens of cases of
coercive sterilization between 1979 and 2001, and called for criminal
investigations and possible prosecution against several health care
workers and administrators.[70]

In 2008, the Italian government declared that Italy's Romani
population represented a national security risk and that swift action
was required to address the emergenza nomadi (gypsy emergency)[71]
Specifically officials in the Italian government accused the Romanies
of being responsible for rising crime rates in urban areas. Mario
Marazziti, spokesperson of the Community of Sant'Egidio human rights
organization said "There is no national emergency ... What is an
emergency is that in the 21st century the life expectancy of a gypsy
living in Italy is under 60 years of age."[72]

Fictional representations

Main article: Fictional representations of Romani people
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fictional_representations_of_Romani_people

Vincent van Gogh: The Caravans - Gypsy Camp near Arles (1888, Oil on
canvas)Many fictional depictions of the Romani in literature and art
present Romanticized narratives of their supposed mystical powers of
fortune telling, and their supposed irascible or passionate temper
paired with an indomitable love of freedom and a habit of criminality.
Particularly notable are classics like Carmen by Prosper Mérimée and
adapted by Georges Bizet, Victor Hugo's The Hunchback of Notre Dame
and Miguel de Cervantes' La Gitanilla. The Romani were also heavily
romanticized in the Soviet Union, a classic example being the 1975
Tabor ukhodit v Nebo. A more realistic depiction of contemporary
Romani in the Balkans, featuring Romani lay actors speaking in their
native dialects, although still playing with established clichés of a
Romani penchant for both magic and crime, was presented by Emir
Kusturica in his Time of the Gypsies (1988) and Black Cat, White Cat
(1998).

In contemporary literature

The Romani ethnicity is often used for characters in contemporary
fantasy literature. In such literature, the Romani are often portrayed
as possessing archaic occult knowledge passed down through the ages.
This frequent use of the ethnicity has given rise to Gypsy archetypes
in popular contemporary literature. One example of such a use is the
character Jilly Coppercorn in the seminal urban fantasy novel Dreams
Under Foot by Charles de Lint.

See also

Antiziganism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiziganism
Cem Romengo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cem_Romengo#Iulian_R.C4.83dulescu
Decade of Roma Inclusion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decade_of_Roma_Inclusion
European Roma Rights Centre http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Roma_Rights_Centre
Gypsy Lore Society http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gypsy_Lore_Society
International Romani Union http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Romani_Union
King of the Gypsies http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_of_the_Gypsies
List of Romani groups http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Romani_groups
List of Romani people http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Romani_people
List of Romani settlements http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Romani_settlements
Nomadic peoples of Europe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomadic_peoples_of_Europe
R. v. Krymowski http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._v._Krymowski
Timeline of Romani history http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Romani_history

References

Notes

^ According to Encyclopaedia Britannica, estimates of the total world
Romani population range from two million to five million.[1]
^ Ian Hancock's 1987 estimate for "all Gypsies in the world" was 6 to
11 million [2].
^ [3] The Spanish government estimates the number of Gitanos at a
maximum of 650,000
^ [4] Census 2001 in Romania: 535,140 Roma
^ [5] There are officially about 500,000 Roma in Turkey.
^ [6] The Romani population in France is officially estimated at
around 500,000
^ [7] Census 2001 in Bulgaria: 370,908 Roma
^ [8] Census 2001 in Hungary: 205,720 Roma/Bea
^ [9] The Romani population in Greece is officially estimated at
200,000
^ [10] Census 2002 in Russia: 182,766 Roma
^ Demographics_of_Italy#Languages Estimated by Ministero degli Interni
del Governo Italiano.
^ [11] Census 2002 in Serbia: 108,193 Romanies
^ [12] Census 2001 in Slovakia: 89,920 Roma
^ [13] 70,000 Roma/Sinti estimated by the German Ministry of Internal
Affairs
^ [14] The 2002-census reported 53,879 Roma and 3,843 "Egyptians"
^ Gall, Timothy L. (ed). Worldmark Encyclopedia of Culture & Daily
Life: Vol. 4 - Europe. Cleveland, OH: Eastword Publications
Development (1998); pg. 316, 318 : "Religion: An underlay of Hinduism
with an overlay of either Christianity or Islam (host country
religion) "; "Roma religious beliefs are rooted in Hinduism. Roma
believe in a universal balance, called kuntari... Despite a 1,000-year
separation from India, Roma still practice shaktism, the worship of a
god through his female consort... ""
^ Matras, Yaron (2002). Romani: a linguistic introduction. Cambridge
University Press. pp. 239. ISBN 9780521631655.
http://books.google.com/books?id=D4IIi0Ha3V4C&pg=PA238&dq=number+speakers+of+Romani.
Retrieved 2009-07-16.
^ We Are the Romani People, Pg XIX,
http://books.google.ro/books?id=MG0ahVw-kdwC&pg=PP1&ots=PiPKTLplWa&sig=Ly3TAfbjs6FqhS7h0e1Yz44qaIk&hl=ro&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#PPR19,M1,
retrieved 2008-07-31
^ a b We Are the Romani People, Pg XXI,
http://books.google.ro/books?id=MG0ahVw-kdwC&pg=PP1&ots=PiPKTLplWa&sig=Ly3TAfbjs6FqhS7h0e1Yz44qaIk&hl=ro&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#PPR21,M1,
retrieved 2008-07-31
^ p. 52 in Elena Marushiakova and Vesselin Popov's "Historical and
ethnographic background; Gypsies, Roma, Sinti" in Will Guy [ed.]
Between Past and Future: The Roma of Central and Eastern Europe [with
a Foreword by Dr. Ian Hancock], 2001, UK: University of Hertfordshire
Press
^ p. 13 in Illona Klimova-Alexander's The Romani Voice in World
Politics: The United Nations and Non-State Actors (2005, Burlington,
VT.: Ashgate
^ Rothéa, Xavier. "Les Roms, une nation sans territoire?" (in
French).
http://www.theyliewedie.org/ressources/biblio/fr/Rothea_Xavier_-_Les_roms.html.
Retrieved 2008-07-31.
^ We Are the Romani People, Pg XX,
http://books.google.ro/books?id=MG0ahVw-kdwC&pg=PP1&ots=PiPKTLplWa&sig=Ly3TAfbjs6FqhS7h0e1Yz44qaIk&hl=ro&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#PPR20,M1,
retrieved 2008-07-31
^ The Institute for Middle East Understanding
^ Online Etymology Dictionary - Douglas Harper
^ Fraser 1992.
^ Hancock, Ian (1995). A Handbook of Vlax Romani. Slavica Publishers.
p. 17.
^ "gitan" (in French). Dictionnaire de l'Académie française.
http://www.academie-francaise.fr/dictionnaire/. Retrieved 2007-08-26.
"Nom donné aux bohémiens d'Espagne ; par ext., synonyme de Bohémien,
Tzigane. Adjt. Une robe gitane."
^ Council of Europe website, European Roma and Travellers Forum
(ERTF)
^ 3.8 million according to Pan and Pfeil, National Minotiries in
Europe (2004), ISBN 978-3700314431, p. 27f.
^ Council of Europe compilation of population estimates
^ Hancock, Ian, 2001, Ame sam e rromane džene / We are the Romani
People, The Open Society Institute, New York, page 2
^ Matras, Yaron, Romani: A linguistic introduction, Cambridge
University Press, 2002, page 5
^ "Names of the Romani People",
http://desicritics.org/2007/12/24/012125.php, retrieved 2009-01-30
^ N.Bessonov, N.Demeter "Ethnic groups of Gypsies"
^ Hancock, Ian. Ame Sam e Rromane Džene/We are the Romani people. p.
13. ISBN 1902806190.
^ Hancock, Ian F.; Dowd, Siobhan; Djurić, Rajko (2004). The roads of
the Roma: a PEN anthology of gypsy writers.. Hatfield, United Kingdom:
University of Hertforshire Press. pp. 14–15. ISBN 0900458909.
^ ""Romani"". Encyclopedia of Language and Linguistics. Oxford:
Elsevier.
http://romani.humanities.manchester.ac.uk/downloads/2/Matras_Rmni_ELL.pdf.
Retrieved 30 August 2009.
^ a b Kalaydjieva, Luba (2001). "Genetic studies of the Roma
(Gypsies): A review". BMC Medical Genetics 2: 5. doi:
10.1186/1471-2350-2-5. http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2350/2/5.
Retrieved 2008-06-16.
^ "Figure 4". Biomedcentral.com. doi:10.1186/1471-2350-2-5.
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2350/2/5/figure/F4. Retrieved
2009-05-06.
^ a b Origins and Divergence of the Roma (Gypsies), PMID 11704928,
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1235543,
retrieved 2008-06-16
^ Mutation history of the Roma-Gypsies, http://lib.bioinfo.pl/pmid:15322984,
retrieved 2008-06-16
^ Jatt mutation found in Romani populations
^ Searching for the origin of Romanies http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=18768723
^ Linda Anfuso (1994-02-24). "[at tinhat.stonemarche.org gypsies]".
rec.org.sca. (Web link). Retrieved on 2007-08-26.
^ "A Chronology of significant dates in Romani history". Archived from
the original on 2004-12-04.
http://web.archive.org/web/20041204203106/radoc.net/chronology.html.
^ Hancock, Ian, 2001, Ame sam e rromane džene / We are the Romani
People, The Open Society Institute, New York, page 25
^ On the road: Centuries of Roma history, Delia Radu, BBC World
Service, 8 July 2009
^ ROMANIES AND THE HOLOCAUST: A REEVALUATION AND AN OVERVIEW
^ Denysenko, Marina (2007-03-12). "Sterilised Roma accuse Czechs". BBC
News.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6409699.stm.
^ Thomas, Jeffrey (2006-08-16). "Coercive Sterilization of Romani
Women Examined at Hearing: New report focuses on Czech Republic and
Slovakia". Washington File. Bureau of International Information
Programs, U.S. Department of State.
http://usinfo.state.gov/xarchives/display.html?p=washfile-english&y=2006&m=August&x=200608171045451CJsamohT0.678158.
^ "Romani Customs and Traditions: Death Rituals and Customs". Patrin
Web Journal.
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/5121/death.htm. Retrieved 2007-08-26.
[dead link]
^ David M. Knipe. "The Journey of a Lifebody".
http://www.hindugateway.com/library/rituals/. Retrieved 2008-05-26.
^ Hancock, Ian, 2001, Ame sam e rromane džene / We are the Romani
People, The Open Society Institute, New York, page 81
^ Dieter W. Halwachs. "Speakers and Numbers (distribution of Romani-
speaking Romani population by country)" (PDF). Rombase.
http://romani.uni-graz.at/rombase/cd/data/lang/gen/data/numbers.en.pdf.
^ Raymond G. Gordon Jr., ed (2005). "Caló: A language of Spain".
Ethnologue: Languages of the World (15th ed.). Dallas, Texas: SIL
International. ISBN 9781556711596.
http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=rmr.
^ Delia Grigore, Petre Petcuţ and Mariana Sandu (2005) (in Romanian).
Istoria şi tradiţiile minorităţii rromani. Bucharest: Sigma. p. 36.
^ a b "Timeline of Romani History". Patrin Web Journal.
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/5121/timeline.htm. Retrieved
2007-08-26. [dead link]
^ Most estimates for numbers of Romani victims of the Holocaust fall
between 200,000 and 500,000, although figures ranging between 90,000
and 4 million have been proposed. Lower estimates do not include those
killed in all Axis-controlled countries. A detailed study by Sybil
Milton, formerly senior historian at the US Holocaust Memorial Museum
gave a figure of at least a minimum of 220,000, probably higher,
possibly closer to 500,000 (cited in Re. Holocaust Victim Assets
Litigation (Swiss Banks) Special Master's Proposals, September 11,
2000). Ian Hancock, Director of the Program of Romani Studies and the
Romani Archives and Documentation Center at the University of Texas at
Austin, argues in favour of a higher figure of between 500,000 and
1,500,000 in his 2004 article, Romanies and the Holocaust: A
Reevaluation and an Overview as published in Stone, D. (ed.) (2004)
The Historiography of the Holocaust. Palgrave, Basingstoke and New
York.
^ a b Samer, Helmut (December 2001). "Maria Theresia and Joseph II:
Policies of Assimilation in the Age of Enlightened Absolutism.".
Rombase. Karl-Franzens-Universitaet Graz.
http://romani.uni-graz.at/rombase/cgi-bin/art.cgi?src=data/hist/modern/maria.en.xml.
^ "Gitanos. History and Cultural Relations.". World Culture
Encyclopedia.
http://www.everyculture.com/Europe/Gitanos-History-and-Cultural-Relations.html.
Retrieved 2007-08-26.
^ "Roma (Gypsies) in Norway".
http://www.geocities.com/~Patrin/norway.htm. Retrieved 2007-08-26.
[dead link]
^ "The Church of Norway and the Roma of Norway". World Council of
Churches. 2002-09-03.
http://www2.wcc-coe.org/ccdocuments.nsf/index/plen-4.4-en.html.
^ "Amnesty International". Web.amnesty.org. 2009-04-20.
http://web.amnesty.org/wire/February2002/Europe_Roma. Retrieved
2009-05-06.
^ Woodard, Colin (2008-02-13). "Hungary's anti-Roma militia grows |
csmonitor.com". csmonitor.com<!.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0213/p07s02-woeu.html. Retrieved
2009-05-06.
^ "roma | Human Rights Press Point". Humanrightspoint.si.
http://www.humanrightspoint.si/node/12. Retrieved 2009-05-06.
^ Gesellschaft fuer bedrohte Voelker - Society for Threatened Peoples.
"Roma and Ashkali in Kosovo: Persecuted, driven out, poisoned".
Gfbv.de.
http://www.gfbv.de/inhaltsDok.php?id=612. Retrieved 2009-05-06.
^ Sterilised Roma accuse Czechs, BBC, 12 March 2007 (English)
^ For Gypsies, Eugenics is a Modern Problem - Czech Practice Dates to
Soviet Era, Newsdesk, June 12, 2006 (English)
^ http://www.ochrance.cz/en/dokumenty/dokument.php?doc=400
^ "Italy's new ghetto?". The Guardian. March 30, 2009.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/mar/30/roma-italy.
^ Italy assailed over plan to fingerprint Gypsies | International
Herald Tribune

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2005.
Fonseca, Isabel. Bury me standing: the Gypsies and their journey. New
York: A.A. Knopf, 1995.
Fraser, Angus The Gypsies : Blackwell Publishers, Oxford UK, 1992 ISBN
0-631-15967-3.
Genner, Michael. Spartakus, 2 vols. Munich: Trikont, 1979-80.
"Germany Reaches Deal to Deport Thousands of Gypsies to Romania,"
Migration World Magazine, Nov-December 1992.
Gray, RD; Atkinson, QD (2003). "Language-tree divergence times support
the Anatolian theory of Indo-European origin." Nature.
Gresham, D; et al. (2001). "Origins and divergence of the Roma
(Gypsies)." American Journal of Human Genetics. 69(6), 1314-1331.
[15]
Hackl, Erich. (1991). Farewell Sidonia, New York: Fromm International
Pub. ISBN 0-88064-124-X. (Translated from the German, Abschied von
Sidonie 1989)
Helsinki Watch. Struggling for Ethnic Identity: Czechoslovakia's
Endangered Gypsies. New York, 1991.
Leland, Charles G. The English Gipsies and Their Language. London:
Trübner & Co., 1873.
Lemon, Alaina (2000). Between Two Fires: Gypsy Performance and Romani
Memory from Pushkin to Post-Socialism. Durham: Duke University Press.
ISBN 0-8223-2456-3
Luba Kalaydjieva; et al. (2001). "Patterns of inter- and intra-group
genetic diversity in the Vlax Roma as revealed by Y chromosome and
mitochondrial DNA lineages." European Journal of Human Genetics. 9,
97-104. [16]
Marushiakova, Elena; Popov, Vesselin. (2001) "Gypsies in the Ottoman
Empire." Hatfield: University of Hertfordshire Press.
Matras, Yaron (2002). Romani: A Linguistic Introduction, Cambridge:
Cambridge University Press. ISBN 0-512-02330-0.
McDowell, Bart (1970). "Gypsies, Wanderers of the World". National
Geographic Society. ISBN 0-87044-088-8.
"Gypsies, The World's Outsiders." National Geographic, April 2001,
72-101.
Ringold, Dena. Roma & the Transition in Central & Eastern Europe:
Trends & Challenges. Washington, DC, USA: World Bank, 2000. pg. 3,5, &
7.
Roberts, Samuel. The Gypsies: Their Origin, Continuance, and
Destination. London: Longman, 4th edition, 1842.
Silverman, Carol. "Persecution and Politicization: Roma (Gypsies) of
Eastern Europe." Cultural Survival Quarterly, Summer 1995.
Simson, Walter. History of the Gipsies. London: S. Low, 1865.
Tebbutt, Susan (Ed., 1998) Sinti and Roma in German-speaking Society
and Literature. Oxford: Berghahn.
Turner, Ralph L. (1926) The Position of Romani in Indo-Aryan. In:
Journal of the Gypsy Lore Society 3rd Ser. 5/4, pp. 145–188.
Danish Broadcasting Corporation A page in Danish about Romani
treatment in Denmark

External links

Wikimedia Commons has media related to: Roma people

European Parliament resolution on the situation of the Roma in the
European Union - April 28, 2005
Final report on the human rights situation of the Roma, Sinti and
travellers in Europe by the European Commissioner for Human Rights
(Council of Europe) - February 15, 2006
Non-governmental organisations
European Roma Rights Centre - European Romani NGO
Roma Rights Network - Romani INGO
Museums and libraries
Museum of Romani Culture in Brno, Czech Republic (in Czech)[17]
Specialized Library with Archive "Studii Romani" in Sofia, Bulgaria
(Bulgarian, English)
Documentation and Cultural Centre of German Sinti and Roma in
Heidelberg, Germany (German, English)
Ethnographic Museum in Tarnów, Poland. Click "ROMA (CYGANIE)" on the
menu at left. (Polish, English, Romani)
Who we Were, Who we Are: Kosovo Roma Oral History Collection. The most
comprehensive collection of information on Kosovo's Roma in existence.
(English)

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Romani people

A

Antiziganism

C
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Roma (Romani subgroup)
D
Romani dance
Didem (Belly Dancer)
F
Fictional representations of Romani people
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G
Gypsy
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K
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L
Lavengro
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M
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Ranjit Naik
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O
Opera Nomadi
R
Rayito
Relations between ethnic Czechs and Roma
Rokker Radio
Roma Special School
Roma in United Nations refugee camps, Kosovska Mitrovica
Romani people of Vojvodina
Romani studies
Romany crucifixion legend
R cont.
Romska Inteligencia za Spolunazivanie
Rudolice nad Bílinou
S
Sapera
The Scholar Gipsy
Selamsız
Sinti
Stolipinovo
Sulukule
U
United Roma Party of Kosovo
Ústí nad Labem
Y
Yeniche language
Z
Zargari people
Zoli

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people

The Lost Tribes of India
By Jeetan Sareen
Aug 29, 2005

The history of the ethnic group, known collectively as the "Gypsies,"
is a long and muddled one. For a long time, no one knew their origins.
Now as we’re beginning to unravel their past, their future is
uncertain. But what is certain is an underlying culture that connects
Gypsies regardless of what part of the world they are settled in.

Who are you and whence do you come?
Why have you forgotten yourself? Oh, my darling!
These lice-ridden Gorgios gave you dirty and false names as Lubni and
Mugni, Xorasani and Osmani,
But you are Mother India's forgotten child Ramni, now called Romni.
In fact you are the flowing Ganges water mixed with the waters of the
river Nile, Euphrates and Danube.

- J.S. Pathania (re-translated from the Romani original)

It is well accepted now that the Gypsies probably originated from
India. There are many legends that attest to this, as well as
linguistic ties that make this conclusion all but guaranteed.
Moreover, cultural similarities have led most scholars to agree with
this theory. The Gypsies, or as they call themselves Roma, are a
curious ethnicity that "never sleep twice in the same place never
drink water twice from the same well, and never cross the same river
twice in one year." I would like to explain a very brief history of
the Gypsies, and show the underlying Indian connection to this ethnic
group. In recent years (especially since the fall of the Easter Bloc),
the Romani have attempted to connect with their Indian past, and
perhaps we should know more about these lost relatives, so we can
forge closer ties. Since most Romani live in Eastern Europe, it may
help Indians, and India solidify stronger ties with Eastern Europeans
as well. This can be a connection with large ramifications. At the
very least, we will learn more about an ethnic group that has forever
been dismissed, ridiculed and downright denigrated.

The term "Gypsies" is an historical aberration, and actually
originated in the region of Armenia. A few hundred years ago the
Gypsies had settled into this region and formed camps in and on the
outskirts of cities. One major camp was known as "Little Egypt",
because the locals believed the people were from Egypt. Thus the term
Gypsies is derived from Egyptian. However, the connection to Egypt is
all but completely non-existent.

There are many legends in Roma culture. Roma culture is filled with
exquisite stories, and is very art-oriented, something I have always
found true with our great Hindu/Indian culture. Roma culture is also
very music-oriented, and there is reason to believe that there is an
Indian connection to this. One very popular Roma myth explains how the
Romani were forced out of India:

From Konrad Bercovici, STORY OF THE GYPSIES [1]:

We were then living on the Ganges. And our chief was a powerful chief…
a man whose voice was heard over all the land and whose judgments were
final. This chief had an only son whose name was Tchen.

In the land of the Hind there ruled a powerful king whose favorite
wife had borne him an only child, a daughter, whom he named Gan. One
day a sorcerer told this king that a man was to invade the Hind, at
the head of a numerous horde and overrun the land and destroy the king
and his family, and become the master of the country. The sorcerer
also told him that this conqueror should be immune from every form of
death, but that it was written that he would perish if he should do
violence to the Gypsy.

To save his newly-born daughter, the king called our chief, Tchen's
father, whose friend he was, and it was agreed between them that the
child was to be taken secretly to the tent of the Gypsy chief and only
the chief's wife would know who the child really was. Three days later
our Barrosan announced to his people that his wife had given birth to
a girl, and that her name was Gan...and so it was that Tchen and Gan
grew up in the same tent.

When Tchen was to be wived, they asked him to choose from the girls of
his tribe, but there was no one he desired. Again and again, the most
beautiful girls danced before him, but he found none to his liking. In
the meantime, the old chief died. Tchen threatened to kill himself,
for he realized that he loved his own sister. So his mother told him
that Gan was the daughter of the king of the Hind and not his sister.

The people were torn in two; those who agreed that everything the
young chief did was right, and the other which swore not to live under
a chief who married his own sister. Tchen dared not tell the truth,
lest the invader destroy Gan.

Meanwhile one of Skender's generals came down like a cyclone upon the
land of the Hind, devastating and destroying everything. As the
sorcerer had foretold, the king of the Hind was killed with all his
wives...their bones left under a pile of stones at the ruined palace.
One of the Gypsies approached this great conqueror to ask him for a
judgment on a sister marrying a brother… but the conqueror looked at
him with scorn and hit him a fatal blow on the head. At that moment,
the great general and his horse burst and crumbled like a clay pot
tossed on a rock. The wind blew his remains into the desert.

Those who opposed Tchen pursued him and his followers to the end of
the land and beyond. Those who had remained faithful to their chief
were called "Tchen-Gans" ...meaning brothers who married their
sisters. And a great sorcerer cursed Tchen and those following him,
saying that they should forever wander over the face of the earth,
never sleep twice in the same place never drink water twice from the
same well, and never cross the same river twice in one year.

Though this particular legend suggests the Roma are from the Ganges
region of India, the veracity of such legends is tough to measure. For
centuries the origins of the Gypsies were shrouded in mystery. Here
today and gone tomorrow, these banks of dark-skinned nomads with
strange habits aroused the curiosity of sedentary populations, and
many writers constructed a variety of often far-fetched hypotheses in
an attempt to explain the enigma.

In the nineteenth century, although scientific investigation had
already provided the answer, the most fantastic myths were still being
made.

This jumble of ingenious superstitions and shaky hypotheses did not
survive serious study of the language of the Gypsies. As early as
during the Renaissance scholars had some notions of this language, but
they did not connect it to any linguistic group nor locate the area in
which it originated. At the end of the eighteenth century, however,
scholars were able to determine the origin of the Gypsies on the basis
of scientific evidence.

Since then eminent linguists have confirmed the analyses of these
early scholars. The grammar and vocabulary of the language of the
Gypsies are close to those of Sanskrit and to such living languages as
Kashmiri, Hindi, Gujarati, Marathi and Nepali. Modern scholars no
longer doubt that the Gypsies originated in India, but many problems
concerning ethnic group, social class, and the period of their
earliest migrations still need to be elucidated.

Linguistics is the discipline best able to locate the origin of the
Gypsies, but anthropology, medical science and ethnology also have a
contribution to make.

Documentation on the period that may be called "the prehistory of the
Gypsies" is extremely limited. The writers of ancient India were only
interested in gods and kings, and paid scant attention to the people
known as the Zott, the Jat, the Luli, the Nuri, or the Dom. [2]

Today it is known that Romani, the language of the Gypsies, is a
sister language of Sanskrit. This was first proven by a German
philologist, H.M.G. Grellman, in the late eighteenth century, who
conducted a study of Romani words (later consolidated in a fifteen
page catalogue) and compared it to Sanskrit, finding at least a third
of them to be of Hindu origin. Future comparisons yielded the
discovery that the grammatical construction and vocabulary of Romani
very closely resembles that of the language spoken by the Jats, a
nomadic tribe of northwestern India. [3]

Many now believe that the Roma were a group from NorthWest India,
mainly low-caste Sudra, who left India. Many legends suggest they were
banished. These people traveled through the Mid-East, and eventually
reached Europe. There are three main migration periods. The first is
the exodus from India. The second is the movement from the Mid-East to
Europe (mainly the Armenian "Little Egypt" Region). The third has been
post-World War II. The Roma were absolutely destroyed by the Nazi's
who killed them en masse (in fact the death penalty was less stringent
for Jews than for the Roma. If you were 1/4 Jewish, you would be
killed, but if you were 1/16th Roma, you would be put to death). This
was not new, the persecution of the Gypsies began centuries prior to
the 1940's, and was a part of the Northern Europe's cultural heritage
so to speak.

Today, the Roma are dispersed into three categories, based on
geography the Rom (European Roma), Lom (specifically the Armenians),
and Dom (in the Mid-east, specifically Iran). These terms are all
phonetically correspondent to Sanskrit's "domba", or modern Indian
terms like dom or dum.

In Sanskrit domba means “man of low caste living by singing and
music.” In modern Indian tongues the corresponding words have similar
or related meanings: in Lahnda it is “menial”; in Sindhi, “caste of
wandering musician”; in Panjabi, “strolling musician”; in West Pahari
it means “low-caste man.” There are references to the Dom as musicians
from the sixteenth century. The Dom still exist in India; they are
nomads who do a number of jobs: basket-making, smithing, metalworking,
scavenging, music-making. Not surprisingly, many people have leapt on
a Dom theory of origins for the Gypsies.

This also makes sense in a cultural sense, since the Roma have
traditionally been known for two types of work: either art/music
related, or metallurgy. [3] In fact, it is the Roma's metallurgy
ability that has led many to believe they helped educate the world
about the ancient Indian techniques.

By 400 A.D., we see the first mention of the group that would one day
be called the Gypsies. Bahram Gur, Shah of Persia, sends for 10,000
Luri (or Zotts, depending on which translation) to be brought from the
borders of India into his court. These Zotts were renowned musicians
and dancers at this time. They became favorites of the Persian court,
to the point that once the Caliphs took over, the Zotts (derivation of
Jatts perhaps) were moved to Antioch to keep them away from the courts
in case they were still sympathetic to the deposed Shah.

When they went to Antioch, they took their music, and their cattle.
They were a settled people there, until c. 820 A.D., when they were
forcibly moved from the area to Baghdad, then separated into smaller
groups so as not to cause any more trouble for the Arabs over their
cattle-grazing rights.

By 1050 A.D., the gypsies had made their way to Constantinople and the
rest of the Byzantine Empire. Emperor Monomachus asked the Adsincani
(derived from the Greek "Atsinganoi" which is the root word for
various names that the gypsies are called now, such as Tzigane,
Zincali, etc.) to rid his forests of the wild animals which were
killing off his stock in his hunting preserve. These people were well
known for their ability with animals, along with their proficiency at
metalwork and music.

As the Ottoman Empire spread, so did the gypsies. They are recorded in
Serbia in 1348, Bulgaria in 1378 and can be documented in Hungary in
1383. The Ottomans were actually the first to refer to the gypsies as
"Egyptians" in 1396 in what is now Bulgaria. These were a useful and
well-received people in the Middle East and Eastern Europe during this
time on the whole. The only place that this could not be said was true
was in Romania. In 1385 there is the first record of gypsy slaves. But
even then, they were coveted all over for their abilities in
metalwork, music and animal handling. They also became well known as
proficient mercenaries for hire, their prowess on the field legendary
in Hungary and Romania, both fighting for the Turks and against them.

In 1407, everything changed for the gypsies. Historians are divided as
to how they came up with the idea to go to Western Europe as penitent
pilgrims. To the gypsies, this "pilgrimage" is known as the Hakko
Baro, or the Great Game/Scam [4]. They appeared outside of the gates
of Hildesheim, Germany, with letters from King Sigismund, the Holy
Roman Emperor, granting them safe passage through all lands under his
domain. From there, they traveled to Italy, telling their story to the
Pope, who in turn gave them letters of safe passage and a letter
stating that all dioceses that these people come across would give
them money and food.

When they showed up with these letters outside the gates of Paris in
1427, they caused quite a commotion. An alderman wrote in his journal
of their approach to the gates, with the "barely clad women" telling
people’s fortunes, and their men dressed in scarlet, daring you to
ignore them. All in their traveling group stayed outside the gates but
for their leaders, who presented the letters to the authorities in the
city.

Once they appeared in Western Europe, opinions began to change on how
useful and alike to others the Gypsies were. In Eastern Europe and
Germany, you see legislation begin to be passed forbidding gypsies
entry into certain towns. The reasoning behind these laws was to quell
the idea that they gypsies were Turkish spies and traitors to whatever
country they were in at the time. Unfortunately, all this seemed to do
was incite more and more suspicion, which eventually made the Gypsies
second-class citizens in most Europeans eyes.

By the mid-16th century, the gypsies were not even safe in Turkish-
controlled lands. What was different here was the fact that the
settled Gypsies were the ones being persecuted here, instead of the
nomadic Gypsies. They were taxed heavily, and "persuaded" to convert
to Islam, sometimes being imprisoned and/or killed for not converting.

From this time period on, Gypsies become outcasts, with the peak of
dehumanization and torture appearing during World War II with the
Final Solution encompassing Gypsies along with Jews. Along with the
human loss from that time, we also lost many of the people who
actually may have been able to answer some of the questions that
historians still pose today as to the origins of this people. [4]

To the Roma the persecution during the 1940's is as important as it is
to the Jews. The Romani Anthem (International Roma organizations have
attempted to codify Roma culture in an attempt to unite the various
groups. The Roma now have an anthem, as well as a flag that contains a
16 spoke -as opposed to the Indian 24 spoke- Chakra) articulates the
troubled history of these people [5]:

I went, I went on long roads
I met happy Roma
O Roma where do you come from,
With tents on happy roads?
O Roma, O fellow Roma

I once had a great family,
The Black Legions* murdered them
Come with me Roma from all the world
For the Romani roads have opened
Now is the time, rise up Roma now,
We will rise high if we act

O Roma, O fellow Roma

*(the Black Legions refers to the Black uniformed SS, Gestapo as well
as the "Death's Head Battalion" concentration camp units).

Today the Roma are trying to reach out to their past, and understand
themselves better. Freedom after the fall of the Soviet Bloc has
created an impetus to learn more about themselves. Clearly this has
led them to turn their sights and hearts towards India. It is
important for us Indians, and specifically us Hindus, to reach out to
this community. They are a great example of the plight of Indians
around the world. They have endured persecution from the Arabs, the
Nazis and have been sent on Slave-ships to the Americas. They have
inhabited most of the world at some point, and have been ambassadors
of Indian culture and science. They are known for their metallurgy,
and their music, two talents India has always been known for as well.
For many Roma a new identity, which one might call “Hindupen” is
growing out of an unprecedented pride in origins. [3]

In conclusion, I would like to suggest we have an appreciation for
these people, who even today, are ridiculed and derided. The term
"Gypsy" has a bad connotation, and is of ill-repute. It is best to
know more about them, if for nothing at least to learn more about our
own ancient land, which they proudly believe to be their own as well.

References:

[1] http://www.dancers-archive.com/med-dance/legends.txt
[2] http://www.geocities.com/Paris/5121/homeland.htm
[3] http://pages.slc.edu/~badams/GIFandJPEG/Hindupenpage.htm
[4] http://www.florilegium.org/files/CULTURES/Gypsies-art.html
[5] http://www.geocities.com/Paris/5121/gelem.htm

http://www.swaveda.com/articles.php?action=show&id=31

http://thetruthwholetruthandnothingbuttruth.blogspot.com/2010/04/not-required-indian-nri-sid-harth.html

...and I am Sid Harth
navanavonmilita
2010-04-11 05:58:21 UTC
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Caste, Cast in Stone: Sid Harth

Kunbi
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Castes of India

Maratha Kunbi
Classification Hindu Kshatriya
Religions Hinduism

Language Hindi, Chhattisgarhi, Marathi, Konkani, Gujrati, South Indian
languages and dialects
Populated States Northern India, Western India, Central India, South
India
People from the Kunbi (also called Kurmi) community in India belong to
a sub-caste of the Kshatriya varna.[citation needed] The word kunabi
is a generic term equivalent to farmer in English. According to the
great Indian mythology God Rama had two sons one Luv and other Kush.
Luv's successors came to known as lavyas who settled in Kashmir and
later moved towardsTother parts of the country mentioned below .
Successors of kush came to be known as Kushwahas, who basically
setteled in northern plains of India. Ancient Kurmis (then known as
Patidars) formed governing bodies in Gujarat, Maharastra, Sindh,
Kashmir, The Eastern Afghanistan Plains, Indus River Valley, and parts
of Pakistan in pre-mughal times. They became owners of land, and
issued it for farming in pattas. Owners of pattas were called
Patildars or Patidars >> Patel & Patil. Later, they further sub-
divided into many other sub-castes.

In India, societies like Kshatriyas Maratha, Rajput, Yadav, Gujjar,
Raju, and others possess ruling powers but later due to population
expansion and other causes they also worked or lived as farmers and
formed corresponding societies.

Kshatriyas and agriculture

“ "A Kshatriya who has fallen into distress, may subsist by all these
means..." ”
— Laws of Manu, X:95 [1]

As per ancient Hindu texts, agriculture is permissible to Kshatriyas
under special circumstances [1] in the absence of opportunities in the
military and feudal apparatus of a righteous Aryan king. Indeed, the
service in the army of an unrighteous, or a 'Yavana', or a 'Maleccha',
king was the biggest imaginable anathema for a concentious and
observant vedic kshatriya in ancient India. A vedic kshatriya was not
a mercenary soldier but a defender of faith and righteous order
(dharma).

Culture

Some Hindu-Kunbis perform the Upanayana[citation needed] Samskara as
per their family traditions which is as per the original clan they
follow,though it is not a compulsion & at places not considered right
amongst themselves. In the past Kunbis have larger houses - some were
called WADA, some were GADHI (fortressed complex) and some also had
KEELLA (a fort). Most of the historical evidences are managed and
maintained by National (India) and State (Maharashtra) level
government departments, although there are many families who maintain
their own set of documents or evidences as a mark of family assets.
Large scale Kunbi farmers generally maintain large herds of dairy
cattle and a number of horses.

List of famous Maratha Saints

Saint Tukaram A 17th Century popular poet.
Siddharameshwar Maharaj A guru of Nondualism, a saint of Solapur and
guru of Nisargadatta Maharaj and Ranjith Maharaj.
Nisargadatta Maharaj One of the world famous disciples of
Siddharameshwar Maharaj and author of book I Am That.He has many
international disciples who are famous and preach in USA, Europe &
Australia. Some of his disciples are John Wheeler & Bob Adamson.
Rashtra Saint Tukdoji Maharaj A national saint, musician and social
reformer. He wrote Gramgeeta for rural development.

Maratha Kunabi Society

Kunabi Maratha is Cluster of Royal 96 clans and Peasantry Class of
Maharashtra and also Maratha Royalties Proclaimed themeselves farmer
as they were landlords.Royal 96 clans marry among only Maratha Farmers
i.e.Maratha Kunabi ,not other Kunabi's from non-maratha cast.

Kunbis, also known as Kunbi Marathas, are a Maratha sub-caste residing
primarily in provinces of India such as Maharashtra, Madhya Pradesh,
Gujarat, Karnataka etc.

Betul District (Madhya Pradesh) is one of the higher kunbi population
place.

List of other Saints

Shree Saint Gulabrao Maharaj was blind from birth. He preached Vedas
to the Brahmins.
Shree Sant Gadaji Maharaj A saint, visionary leader and social
reformer in 1700. He saved his own village from the mughal occupation
and became famous for his extraordinary leadership and visionary
speeches. Nearly 20 thousand people gather on holy occasions to
remember him.

List of famous Kunbi Marathi Women

Lalita Pawar was a Bollywood actor known as the The Mother of all
mothers-in-law in films. She was born into a rich Yevle family of
Nashik and was married to Raj Prakash Gupta and lived in Pune. She
started her career in silent films in 1928 and acted in more than 500
Hindi and Marathi films.
Smita Patil was a Bollywood actor who was the first Asian cine-star to
have the unique honor of Retrospectives in Paris and La Rochelle, (at
the promptings of no less a film luminary than Director Costa Gavras),
a two-time Best Actress award winner at the National Film Festival
(Bhumika and Chakra) and a Padmashree. She was a keen photographer and
died at the age of 31.
Smt Prabha Rau is now the Governor of Himachal Pradesh and is the
former president of Maharashtra Pradesh Congress Committie. She is a
sports person and has represented Maharashtra in the long jump, high
jump, hurdles, discus throw and running. She is also a musician, and
holds a Masters degree in Politics and Music.
Smt Kumud Pawade was a renowned Sanskrit scholar, author and a
professor. She was born in Nagpur in 1938 into a Mahar family
considered to be untouchable before the 1950s. She married Motiram
Pawade a social worker who was from a Maratha family. She was also the
president of All India Progressive Woman's Organization.
Mrs Ujjwala Raut-Sterry is India's most accomplished supermodel now
settled in the US. She has won awards in both India and
internationally for her performance as a model. Born and brought up in
Mumbai, she is married to British film producer Craig Maxwell Sterry.
She has also been on the cover of Time magazine.
'Miss India Sayali Bhagat', A famous bollywood actress is from Nasik

List of famous Kunbi Men

Yashaskara, King of KashmirDynasties of Ancient Kashmir. After the
Utpala dynasty, a Yashaskara became king. (V 469). He was a great-
grandson of a Viradeva, a Kutumbi (V 469). He was from the kutumbi
group (also known as kurmis of UP and Kunbis of Gujarat/Maharashtra)
and the son of a treasurer of Karkota Shamkaravarman.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynasties_of_Ancient_Kashmir#The_Dynasties
Shri Shivajirao Adhalrao Patil His father was a small scale farmer and
Shivajirao as a child used to sell vegetables in Mumbai. At one time
he even struggled to get daily bread. He got his first job as a peon
in Zenith Computers a software company based in Mumbai. With his
company owner's support, he started taking part time classes in
English. This company was a turning point for him and later on he
started his own company Dynalog Limited, that supplies electronics
good to Defense, Education and Industries. Shivajirao's company has
now grown into famous venture well known in India and Internationally.
Shivajirao has won numerous awards for his achievement both at state
and national level. Due to trouble faced him in getting education
during his childhood, he started a school for kids. Besides being a
Industrialist he is a Member of Parliament from Shiv Sena.
Dr Shrikant Jichkar, MP, Member of Rajya Sabha, Cabinet Minister of
Maharashtra holds 20 postgraduate degrees. He has obtained 28 Gold
Medals. Between 1972 and 1990 he wrote 42 University Examinations. He
was also IPS officer and IAS officer. At 25 years of age, he became
the Youngest MLA in India. He was also leading Indian delegations on
several forums including the UNO, UNESCO. He is founder of Kavi
Kulaguru Kalidas (India's firstSanskrit University). He is Managing
Editor of Nagpur Times and Nagpur Patrika and Founding Chairman of
National Institute of Amateur Radio. (The Guinness World Records lists
him as 'Politician with most qualifications'. He was the first Non-
Brahmin to be awarded the Dixit Title)
Sandeep Patil is a cricket player and former coach of the Kenya
Cricket Team that reached World Cup Semi-Finals in 2003. He had a
record for six fours in a cricket over.
Barrister S. K. Wankhede is a former BCCI President and State
Minister. He was married to the late Smt Kusumtai (from a Brahmin
family) who greatly contributed to his career success. Due to his
contribution to Indian cricket a stadium was named after him.
Shri Anant Geete is a Member of Parliament and former Union Minister
of Power. He is involved in power reforms that started during orthodox
BJP Led-NDA central government. He belongs to Konkan Region.
Shri Datta Meghe is Educationists, Member of Parliament, Rajya Sabha.
He runs several educational institutes in Mumbai and Central India.
Dr Atul Gawande is a second generation Harvard professor and doctor,
who is also a columnist in US. He was a student at Stanford and Oxford.
[1]
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/faculty/atul-gawande/
Late Dwarkanath Laxman Mhaskar known as Dadasaheb was the President of
Tillori Kunbi Maratha Samaj (Mumbai). He has worked with his father
Late Laxman Krishnaji Mhaskar in Govt central press, Mumbai when the
freedom movement started, he later gave his resignation and got
involved in to the movement. He was even attached with various school
and colleges, as donor and committee member. He was vice president of
Mumbai Sharirik Shikshan Mandal Headed by Late Appa Samant(Fanas wadi
Koliwadi). Also he had formed Maharashtara Rajya Hu-tu-tu Maha Mandal.
He has arranged many tournaments in Mumbai and Rest of the state. He
had formed Shreerang Co-operative Housing Society Limited, with help
of Late S K Wankhede,(Former State Finance Minister) and Sumati Devi
Dhanavte (M.L.A.)frm Nagpur. This was the biggest Housing Society in
India. He even participated in the separation of Mumbai region from
Sanyukta Maharashtra. He even went to jail during this movement. Govt
of Maharashtra awarded him as Justice of Peace for 35 years. He has
traveled abroad for many social seminar in many countries. He died in
May 88 in Thane. Facts by Anant Dwarkanath Mhaskar and Amar Anant
Mhaskar.
Rajnikanth (Birth Name:Shivaji Rao Gaekwad) also known as Super star
is a famous Indian film actor. He is the second highest paid actor in
Asia after Jackie Chan. He is a follower of Raghavendra Swami.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajnikanth
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackie_Chan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raghavendra_Swami
Harish Raut (1925–2002) was born in Bordi. He was one of the best
painters and his paintings appear in national galleries, government
offices, museums in India and abroad and on greeting cards. He has won
several state and national awards for his painting. His paintings
mainly focus on rural life in India. His natural skill was identified
and furthered by Government of Maharashtra.

Anil Mahajan Pandagre A Youngest person a famous Socialworkar &
Administer kunbi community webparchayika ...[2] At present he is
active kunbi,s Data collection in India.
http://www.lonarikunbi.in/
Dr. R B Thakare Former adviser to World Bank and Asian Development
Bank. He obtained his PhD from University of California, Berkly. He is
a widely recognized expert in the field of [Agriculture]. He has
number of publications in international journals and is a Board of
Member on various universities and institutes in India. At present he
is active in India solving farmers problems.
Dr. Panjabrao Deshmukh was a famous social reformer, educationists and
freedom fighter in Vidarbha. He was the founder of Shivaji Education
Society at Amravati and was a Union Minister of Agriculture in Pandit
Nehru's government. He completed his Ph.D at University of Cambridge.
He returned to India was involved in reforms and was also associated
with Dr Bhimrao Ambedkar.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panjabrao_Deshmukh
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Cambridge
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhimrao_Ambedkar



Sanjay Raut A famous Shiv Sena member and a journalist by profession.
He is the Editor of Shiv Sena daily news paper Saamna. He is also a
Member of Parliament.
Aditya Raut Youngest person in the world to swim across five
continental channels [3]
Shaheed Major Manishi Pitambare recipient of Kranti Chakra, died in
Kashmir valley while fighting with militants was from Murabad in Thane
District



[edit] Demographics

Historical social Structure in Central India


Kunbis of Maharashtra are known as Marathas as they form the farming
section of Marathas. Kunbis from Maharashtra have a 12 and 1/2 (also
known as Saade Bara) clan system. The 12 clans predominantly consist
of Indo-Aryan races and 1/2 part consists of other clans. Names of
clans are listed below [4]

Dhanoje - Located in Vidarbha region. Mainly farming. Few Dhanoje
kunbi's are very rich in Chandrapur region. Many of them have started
education institutes in vidarbha region. They are mainly into farming
and but with time youth of this caste is now well educated and settled
in other parts of country and in foreign countries. Strong presence in
the politics of Vidarbha region especially Amarawati, Chandrapur,
Yeotmal.
Tirale, most prosperous caste in number of parts of Maharashtra and
now dominant in politics in Vidarbha and Khandesh. (Tirale is the most
ancient of all the sub castes and represents the Rajputs from Therol
from Rajputana)[5][6]
Lonari (Farming,business)
Vandhekars (i.e Deshmukhs) and Jadhav (administration, business,
farming and now politically dominant)
Ahire,
Bawne:located in Bhandara and Nagpur district. Mainly farmer community
and well learned and works in govt. and private firms. Dominant as
population wise in most of the villages in Bhandara and Kuhi tahsil,
Ramtek and Umred tahsil villages.
Vanjari and Dhanoje (money lenders, business and farming)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanjari_(caste)
Lonare, Zade, Beldar, Ghatole, Killedar and Dhakane http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beldar
Mana, Kare, Karadi and Khedule and Dait
Khaire and Jungli (tribals involved in farming)
Jadhavs with surnames Sonar, sonare, khapare, dhuldhar, bhurkunde,
Tatte, Bhad, Deshmukh reside mainly in Vidharbha specially in western
regions like Amaravati.
Valte:Located in Vijapur (Duparepada)in Wada Tehsil & Thane
District...Have only one family byt now it is distributed into the 4-5
families at Duparepada,Kudus,Sarshi & supegaon...Mahesh Valte
Bhowad, sud

See also

Kunabi Sena http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kunabi_Sena
Kherlanji Massacre http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kherlanji_Massacre
see also kurmi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurmi
see also Kapu http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kapu_Caste
see also Gurjar http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gurjar
see also Kudumbi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kudumbi

References
^ a b Laws of Manu, Chapter X, Verses 90, 95, 116

[edit] External links

Kshatriya lonari kunbi Samaj [7] http://www.lonarikunbi.in/
Patidar Samaj Online [8] http://www.patidarsamajofne.org/history.html
Marathi Leva Samaj [9] http://marathilevasamaj.org/
Global Kurmi Group [10] http://www.kurmigroup.org/
Patidar Samaj [11] http://www.patidarsamaj.org/
OBC INFORMATION by SHAILENDRA WAGADRE APAAX AT www.obcguru.com [12]
http://www.obcguru.com/

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kunbi"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kunbi

HOME PAGEOBC CENTRAL GOVTOBC STATE GOVTSSCHOLARSHIPS & Q/AGUESTBOOK/
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1. http://www.obcguru.com/uploads/OBC_GENERAL_PROBLEMS_AND_SOLUTION__HINDI__obcguru.pdf

http://www.obcguru.com/uploads/Creamy_layer_corrections_in_Rule_V___VI_on_ncbc_website.pdf
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•3. 27% OBC RESERVATION (ADMISSION): CENTRAL ACT-2006, 04.01.2007
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•4. ACTUAL SIX RULES OF CREAMY LAYER (NOT INCOME ONLY){Hindi/Eng} •5.
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•6. CREAMY LAYER CRITERIAs (MAPDAND) 08.09.1993 {English} NCBC
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•7. CREAMY LAYER CRITERIAs (MAPDAND) O.M. Dt. 08.09.1993{English)
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•8. CREAMY LAYER CRITERIAs (MAPDAND) 08.09.1993 {Hindi} NCBC
http://ncbc.nic.in/hindi/creamy_layer.htm
•9. CREAMY LAYER CLARIFICATIONS 14.10.2004 {English} MOP
http://persmin.gov.in/WriteData/CircularNotification/ScanDocument/36033_5_2004_01April2005.htm
•10. CREAMY LAYER CLARIFICATIONS 14.10.2004 {English} signed copy
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•14. CENTRAL LIST OF OBC CASTES, STATE-WISE {English} NCBC
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•17. APPLICATION FORM TO GET OBC CASTE CRTIFICATE (PAGE-54/488)
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•18. OBC CASTE CRTIFICATE FORMAT CENTRAL {IIT JEE 2010}
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•20. COMPETENT OFFICERS TO ISSUE OBC CERTIFICATE 15.11.93 {P19}
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•25. OBC CERT. SHOULD BE IN PRESCRIBED FORMAT ONLY 02.09.09 {HINDI}
http://www.persmin.nic.in/writedata/CircularNotification/ScanDocument/36011_3_2009-Estt.(Res.)1-H.pdf
•26. COMPENDIAM OF OBC CIRCULARS BY MINISTRY OF PERSONNEL PART-III
http://www.persmin.nic.in/writedata/CircularNotification/ScanDocument/indexForReservation.htm
•27. AGE RELAXATION (3 YEAR) FOR OBC IN RECRUITMENT 09.12.93 (P 20)
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•29. HRD O.M.s AFTER COURT'S ORDER FOR IMPLEMENTATION OF OBC
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•31. OBCs SELECTED IN GENERAL....(DETAIL BY "YOUTH 4 REAL EQUALITY")
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•32. VEERAPPA MOILEE OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE REPORT ON IMPLEMENTATION OF
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•33. ANNUAL REPORT, NATIONAL COMM. FOR BACKWARD CLASSES 2003-04
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•36. HOW TO GET OBC STATUS IN CENTRAL (INCLUSION IN CENTRAL LIST OF
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The Kunbi (alternate names of Reddi and Desai) are a prominent
community of Karnataka. They can also be found in Tamil Nadu, Andhra
Pradesh, Pondicherry, Karnataka, Kerala, Orissa and Maharashtra.
However, traditionally the Reddy belong to the fourth of the Hindu
Varnas, Sudra. One section of the Reddy is called Kapu which means
guardian.

The majority of the Kunbi communities are non-vegetarian, and all the
communities take rice as their staple cereals. Jowar, wheat, bajra and
ragi are the other cereals for them.

The Kunbi community have social divisions such as clans, lineage,
subcastes and sects. These social divisions regulate marital
alliances. They speak the Kannada and Telugu languages.

Among the Kunbi people, cross-cousin marriages of both types are
allowed. Widow remarriage is not permitted. Being a dominant
community, the Reddy have been primarily landlords and landholders.
Social control is regulated through traditional caste and village
councils.

The traditional occupation of most of the Reddy groups is settled
cultivation, followed by animal husbandry and labour. Both men and
women smoke a homemade cheroot (chutta) which results a high incidence
of mouth and throat cancer.

They are Hindu by faith and worship many deities. Their main festivals
are Ugadi, Akshade and Dussehra. They play bhajans and kirtans.

Alternate names: Kapu, Akutota, Desai, Dommari, Guruda, Illela,
Kuruva, Musugu, Nadi Taram, Panta, Sajjana, Renati, etc.

GeographySubmit Update:

Country: India
Continent: Asia
Region: South Asia
Persecution Rank: 26 (Only top 50 ranked, 1 = highest persecution
ranking)
10/40 Window: Yes
Population in this Country: 15,810,000
Largest States: Maharashtra (6,871,000) Gujarat (6,811,000)
Madhya Pradesh (890,000) Andhra Pradesh (834,000)
Rajasthan (460,000) Tamil Nadu (343,000)
Goa (188,000) Orissa (179,000)
Karnataka (137,000) Daman and Diu (29,000)

Total States on file: 29

PeopleSubmit Update:

People Name in Country: Kunbi
People Name General: Kunbi
Alternate People Names: Amin Atte Kunbi
Desai Kambatti
Kamma Reddiyar Kulwadi
Kurmar Kutumbika
Manuru Nagale
Nagiga Patidar
Reddi Reddy

ROP3 Code: 112706
Joshua Project People ID: 17325
Population in this Country: 15,810,000
Population all Countries: 15,824,000
Least-Reached: Yes

Ethnicity

Affinity Bloc: South Asian Peoples
People Cluster: Gujarati
People Name General: Kunbi
Ethnic Code: CNN25r
Ethnic Relationships: Affinity Bloc -> People Cluster -> Peoples
Ethnicity Tree

LanguageSubmit Update:

Primary Language: Gujarati (6,104,000 Speakers)
Language Code (16th): guj Ethnologue Listing
Language Code (14th): GJR
Secondary Languages: Marathi (5,068,000) Hindi (936,000)
Konkani, Goan (428,000) Kachchi (258,000)
Konkani (192,000) Khandesi (166,000)
Nimadi (122,000) Oriya (116,000)
Marwari (101,000) Kannada (99,000)
Ahirani (76,000) Dhanki (39,000)
Malvi (37,000) Mewari (27,000)
Saurashtra (24,000) Dhundari (19,000)
Chhattisgarhi (8,400) Shekhawati (5,700)
Kui (5,100) Bengali (4,700)
Tamil (3,100) Sindhi (2,800)
Malayalam (2,100) Tulu (1,500)
Hadothi (900) Bagheli (600)
Telugu (300) Kuvi (200)
Kanauji (100) Bhili (100)
Pengo (30) Naga, Inpui (Unknown)
Kharia (Unknown) Naga, Mao (Unknown)
Santali (Unknown) Ho (Unknown)
Urdu (Unknown)

Total Languages Spoken: 38

Kunbi of India

* Notes:

•Significant effort is made to match photos with people groups. In
most cases the photo source has identified the people group. However,
in some instances when the exact people group is not identified Joshua
Project has made educated attempts at matching. As a result some
photos may be representative of the people cluster rather than the
specific people group. Mismatches are the fault of Joshua Project, not
the photographer. Please contact us if you believe a photo is not
matched with the correct people group.
•Percentages may be printed as '0.00%' because of space limitations,
but some are slightly greater than zero.
•The exactness of the above numbers can be misleading. Numbers can
vary by several percentage points or more.
•People group population figures are now maintained as a percentage of
the national population. Click here for details.
•Joshua Project does not have specific ministry activity data
supporting each of the "Progress Indicators."
•Discrepancies may exist between "Other Progress Indicators" because
of the varying sources of information.
•Joshua Project does not know the exact content of web audio
recordings. In general they are Bible reading and teaching.
•As on-site realities are understood, barriers of acceptance may be
found in many of the larger people groups that will require multiple
distinct church planting efforts.
•This data may contain errors and needs continual correcting and
updating. Click here to send feedback.

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